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Playtesting (normal VC army list)

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#26
My opponent actually likes the bloodlines-lists more than the normal VC list.

Quote from my DE friend:

"Its funnier to play versus a bloodlines-list because your army will not be good at everything. The matches versus your blood dragons have been by far the most challenging and also the most fun to play! Espesially since you don't go around casting curse of the years on my large infantry blocks, hehe"

I also asked my friend to have a look at the diffrent new vamp-powers and asked him to give a verdict. He says:

"All skills looks good except the Unliving Legend. Even for a hefty 55 pts I think it makes blood knights just too good. It basicly removes all of their weakness! Even though you have to put a lord in the unit and have 700 pts on one point of the table its still just too good. My oppinion at least."

Not sure if I personally agree with him since I my self would never have 700 pts in one unit. Haven't tried this skill yet for just that reason.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#27
Hmm. If possible could you try it out? It would be interesting to see if your friends worries are correct or unfounded. Thanks as well for doing all this playtesting.
 
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#28
No problem! Its mighty fun då try new stuff ^^

My question still remains though: since lahmians and von casrteins cant take mundane armour, can they take magical?
 

ironlord

Black Knight
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Messages
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#31
i can take a shot at the necrarch list against dwarves and an orcs and goblins list, with the number of troops i have i can do a fairly decent sized list, easily 2k-3k
ill post the results and maybe some photos
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
Joined
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Messages
3,607
#32
I'll try out the Lahmian list this saturday, if I can get a game in. My normal opponents don't really like surprises, but we'll see what my beauties can deliver.

So, tentatively, Lahmia list this saturday.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#34
Woohoo!

I am really glad to see some more playtesters. If you need any help or anything then please just let me know, and I look forward to seeing your feedback. The little we have so far suggests that using the changes makes for a more fun game, so hopefully it should be enjoyable for you all.
 

MasterSpark

Nostalgian
Staff member
True Blood
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4,691
#35
I will also do my part in this and playtest the Von Carstein bloodline. I might have a 1500 points battle coming up this weekend, which would be a good time to try it out. Let's just hope that the plans carry through (for once). :rolleyes:
 
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#37
I had another game with the blood dragon list today . I used the same 3000 point army list i posted a while ago . The game was against high elves and my opponent achieved the best result anyone ever got when playing me . He only suffered a solid defeat :D . The player used 2 archmages , 1 dragonmage , 1 mage on foot and Korhil . He had 2 blocks of archers and 1 block of spearmen as his core . He used 2 units of dragon cavalry , a large unit of white lions and 2 lion chariots as his special . Finally he had 4 bolt throwers as his rare .
Seeing as he got such a "good" result in the game I'm no longer worried about how powerful it is .
My opponent was pleased with is result and found that the blood dragon list was less competitive than standard vampires
I hope to get a few more games in on sunday . I'll probably try out the Von Carstein list this time .
:vampire2:
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#38
Great xD It looks good that we haven't created on a overpowered list with the Blood Dragons. Any more comments on the specific powers from yourself or your opponent?

Is anyone going to try out the Strigoi?
 
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#39
The only thing he didn't think was fair was my 400 odd point lord killing his dragon with ease , even though the vampire cost 70 points more than the dragon . He was also unimpressed that Korhil was too scared to fight the lord in a challenge because of honour or death . And if you haven't noticed from my army lists my favorite powers are quick sliver and strength of steel .
 

Onikaigo

Vampire Lord
True Blood
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3,607
#40
Alright. Got a playtest in with Lahmian Vampires today, the same list I posted in the 'To War!' section a few days ago.

I'll write up a quick battle report later, but let me say one thing. Take this information with a grain of salt, my opponent didn't try. At all. He just moved models forward and took charges. I won this game and gave up only 75 points while completely tabling my opponent. He got half points for my Lahmian Sycophant because I did a wound to myself.

Anywhoo.

The Lahmian Special slots are crunched. Badly. I'd recommend making the special slots 0-4, and maybe dropping a rare slot. Or even better, make a Bloodline ability something able to take another special slot. I'd buy that vampire in a heartbeat. I just really, really wanted a third unit of Black Knights, or another hammer unit of Grave Guard. It really gives the Lahmian Feel to the army, running onto the field with two vampires and a horde of troops to control.

Anyways, individual thoughts on powers.

Midnight Dancer- Flat out amazing. Combined with Aura of Dark Majesty, this is better than having armor. Most high level characters are leadership 10, with those three abilities, including the base Lahmian Ld drain, they have a 50/50 chance of NOT being able to hit you, and being frozen in return. Good odds my friend. My Vampire Princess and black knights took out the ASF Black Guard in three turns, while surviving because nobody was able to hit my Lord. Good times.

Behind the Scenes- A 'meh' ability. It was fun, and I took -a- wound off of a Dark Elf Master, but it felt a little underwhelming. Perhaps if they stack? That could be interesting, especially in larger games.

Divine Beauty- I didn't take this because I knew who I was going to be playing, and the fact that he'd simply give up again. And not play. I want to try it out on my next lord, but in this playgroup...I don't think it's going to happen. I got enough flak from the boys here about bringing 'Home' rules. But it looks fairly priced for the devestating effect it can have.

The pricing on some of these abilities is a little annoying. It's impossible to take Two different Lhamian powers on a Hero, which makes it a very specialized Vampire indeed. I'd like 5 point price drops in one or two powers so that another could be snagged along with it.

Overall, I faired really well, and was impressed with the list. They played with the feel I'd wished to see since I started.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
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2,887
#42
I'm going to try and get in a couple games using this list. I'll only be using the Bloodline powers, and the mundane equipment options (still in discussion, but without having Avatar of Death and Dread Knight... not much choice really). I won't be using the composition rules (also still in discussion), but it should still have an ample feel for a Carstein list. Any comments on the list?

2,250 Pts - Von Carstein playtesting list

Drakkon von Carstein
(Lord) @ 459
Lord of the Dead, Crown of the Damned, Book of Arkhan, Dispel Scroll, Magic Level 3, Great Weapon (9)
Rightful Ruler (50) - Enemies within 12" gain no benefit from General/BSB
Aura of Command (25) - Vampire rule extended by 6" (so 18" in this case)
Silver Tongue (10) - Allows a vampire from a different bloodline (can't be General/BSB)

Karl von Carstein, BSB @ 226
Walking Death; Walach's Bloody Hauberk, Great Weapon (6)
Vampiric Aura (25) - undead within 6" suffer one less wound from crumbling (cumulitive with BSB).

Malice von Carstein
@ 206
Talisman of Lycni, Flayed Hauberk, Black Periapt, Great Weapon (6)
Beast Affinity (50)
- Once per battle at the start of his turn, Vampire may summon D3+4 wounds of Dire Wolves (select point within 12", no closer then 8" to the enemy).
- Also, IoN heals d3 wounds worth of Dire Wolves (instead of the normal limit of 1 wound).

Vyngor (Strigoi) @ 145
Summon Creatures of the Night
Bat Form (30) - May join a unit of Fell Bats
Stirgoi Bloodline abilites: +1 Atk, Hatred, 5+ Ward (no equipment of any kind)

15 Skeleton Warriors
@ 165 Pts
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion
Banner of the Dead Legion

15 Skeleton Warriors @ 165 Pts
Light Armour; Shield; Standard; Musician; Champion
War Banner

10 Skeleton Warriors
@ 88 Pts
Light Armour; Shield, Champion

17 Grave Guard @ 290 Pts
Great Weapon; Heavy Armour; Standard; Champion
Banner of the Barrows

6 Black Knights @ 235 Pts
Barding; Lance; Heavy Armour; Shield; Standard; Champion
Royal Standard of Strigos

1 Corpse Cart @ 100 Pts
Miasma of Deathly Vigor; Unholy Loadstone

4 Fell Bats @ 80 Pts

10 Dire Wolves @ 90 Pts
Doom Wolf

Casting Pool: 8
Dispel Pool: 7
Models in Army: 81

Total Army Cost: 2,249
 

Ugrush

Skeleton
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Messages
94
#43
I tried the blood dragon list last wednesday, I've just been a bit slow to report back

The battle was against 2000p of normal VC, 2000p of slaneesh daemons and with me I had 2000p dark elves. (and ofc. my 2000p blood dragons)

My list was as follows:

Vampire Lord; Nightmare, Unliving Legend, Master Strike, Dreadlance, Helmet of Commandment.

Vampire; Nightmate, Strength of Steel, Horsemaster, infinite hatred and blood drinker. (Yes I'm aware now that I actually couldn't take infinite hatred)

Vampire; Nightmare, Infinite hatred, horsemaster.

3x5 Blood knight

2x6 dire wolves

15x3 skeletons

To make things short, we won the battle. I killed the other VC general in round 2 along with 2 more of his heroes. The KoS got whacked by the DE lord on black dragon with pendant. Round 2 pretty much set the standard for the battle to put it that way. Totally we won a solid victory, they barely avoided a massacre.

Horsemaster: Well worth it's points I believe, I didn't really have as much use of it as I had presumed, but that's because they came to us and not the other way around. Not sure I would use 10p for it again, but then again no other power fits with it.

Strength of Steel: it cleaned up more than good enough when wielding bloodfeeder. 15p for a additional strength when charging, which can come in addition to mundane weapons is a fair price. It might be a bit over the top having S8 on the charge with a lance, but then again you sacrifice something else.

Unliving legend: was, not as good as I had hoped for. Mainly because of the no shooting army I was playing, and the only charges I had with that unit was the ones I wanted. I can for sure say that it not underpriced for sure, but being able to take red fury and unliving legend might be a bit over the top.

Master Strike: In combination with the dreadlance and the possibility of red fury, this kicks ass. It's a point sink indeed, but when it works it really does. It's a bit "all the eggs in one basket", so might go both ways.

Helmet of Commandment with WS9 wasn't very pleasant. When starting av WS 7 anyways there isn't much difference really.

After the battle we concluded that the blood dragon list was more balanced than the normal VC list. The synergy of dreadlance and master strike wasn't very nice, but not underpriced. (He did the horde of zombies with WS7 and ASF trick. I knew about it and resorted to grilling the zombies with a hydra and a dragon instead.)

3x5 blood knight was a bargain I thought, untill I realized how little staying power skeletons had. (I'm used to chaos warriors :tongue:)

I am missing infinite hatred, but it truely is more of a strigoi ability indeed.

Ugrush
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#44
Really appreciate the feedback Ugrush. From what we have so far it really does seem the Blood Dragon rules are balanced and also everyone seems to have more fun with them as well, which is the main thing. As you quite rightly said, you can make powerful combos but they are priced appropriately as well.

Will you be doping any more playtesting?

@ Bishop - you list looks great. Very fluffy for the Carstein's whilst still being a solid list. Looking forward to the report.
 

Ugrush

Skeleton
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Messages
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#45
Yes, I will probably be doing more testing in the future. First target it to get a pure blood knight army, with no allies to test out and try the other abilities.

When it will be I ain't all sure since I'm organizing a tournament during the weekend from 13-15th of desember, containing 4 battles in 40k and 4 battles in fantasy. I will be organizing and playing all of them.

I'm a bit sceptical to the 100p ability. being a blood dragon vampire lord it seems a bit much to pay 100p for 1WS, 3 I, 2A, re-roll to hit and KB when losing another magic level, effectivly being a lvl 0 caster in addition. It basically removes the last little piece of magic from our army.
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#46
Ok, well if you can test that out for us that would be great. Some others said the same when creating the rules, whilst others thought it was fine. If you could use the power and feedback it would give us some concrete evidence.
 

Ugrush

Skeleton
Joined
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Messages
94
#47
I can possibliy get it done tmrw, not sure yet. I'll prob try out the 100p ability on a mounted vampire lord with bloodfeeder or something like that.
 

henk

Zombie
Joined
Nov 3, 2009
Messages
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#48
so im planning to play a game with the new bloodlines but had some questions:
1 no equipment for the strigoi i know it was not a big deal in the old book sinsce you could just spend it all on powers but now doesn't it halve your magic point allowance? maybe you could consider giving them 150 point of powers or something like that casue this seems to make them inferior to other vampires to maybe im wrong since they do have benefits

about the carnsteins? isnt true blood horribly overprices? i already consider the rolling of the dice to be almost certain and so if you take that youre basically paying 75 point for a 4+ ward?
 

Disciple of Nagash

The Perverted One
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#49
Henk: Well this is why we are playtesting. If the points you have mentioned to come up as being a problem during playtesting, then of course we can make changes.

Now a lot of people said they were going to try and get some battles in - please say some of you have some feedback?
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
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#50
I'm playing my game(s) online... so, it will be slower then expected feedback-wise... though it will benefit from being entirely logged :D

If I get the chance to do a live game, I will also do that.
 
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