Question about multiple Blood Knight raising.

[Tamodan Varison]

Ah, a classic. Stop your efforts, Cofius, the rules as they are written don't leave a single bit of doubt. You raise Hexwraiths and Blood Knights 1 + caster level. Johnny and the others are absolutely 110% right. Whether that's how it's meant to be, is a different debate. And it'll be a very long one, I can tell you that

 

[cofius]

Thank you for your replies and help i just got lost a little ... i could use a dring (read blood)

 

[cofius]

One other thing... ME can only recover one wound per casting we cant use attribute to heal another one can we?

 

[bigbadbat]

You could heal the ME one wound per casting and use the lore attribute to heal it another, even the same one. Same for TG, or vargheists, or black coach, or corpse cart, or spirit host.

 

[gorgonites]

But not characters correct?

 

[bigbadbat]

IoN NEVER heals character. But they may be healed through the lore attribute.

 

[Gojira]

Just wondering if we can PLEASE drop the 'it's too many points gained so obviously not intended' argument. I've seen far too many weird faq decisions to claim to know what was intended anymore, so I play by the words until they tell me otherwise.

The argument that you gain too many points from raising blood knights like this is silly.

Look at zombies, the cheapest core infantry. On average from a lvl 4 you will get 33 points of models back. Ghouls, the most expensive core infantry, will get you back 75 points from the same caster. An increase of 127%

The cheapest cavalry will from the same lvl 4 again will get you 105pts. The most expensive will get you 250pts. An increase of 138%. An 11% difference from a gain no one has a problem with.

The point I'm trying to make is that a clear metric formed with consistent jumps in point gain as the unit gets more expensive. Mathematically it makes perfect sense. So please no more, 'bloodknights give you back too many points, so it was unintended'. Every metric set has a beginning and an end. Zombies start it, blood knights end it. Something needs to be there, just because it's blood knights doesn't mean it's wrong.

There are other ways other ways to argue that blood knights shouldn't get 1+4 models without using an argument the numbers don't support.

Also, since the ogre FAQ all bets are off. They could easily say, hey we didn't intend it, but go ahead, or hey, we intended that, go ahead. There is no way to tell what GW will ultimately rule.

 

[Chaos_Born]

I don't think it was unintended because it's too powerful, as people have said it's not really that immense, but it's the wording of the 'only one wound for vamp and ethereal stuff'. It looks to me like the 'everyone is a seperate model' thing is just something that phil kelly didn't think of.

 

[Bounce]

Why can't invocation heal characters?
Just read through the whole spell description their is nothing forbidding characters?

 

[Friendly Dead]

IoN NEVER heals character. But they may be healed through the lore attribute.

As I read the rules it can heal characters. It just dont heal characters which are in units.

The rule even mentions characters as an example of a unit. So a character on his own either on foot or on skeletal steed/nightmare/Hellsteed should heal a wound as normal.

 

[RobTheWise]

Hmmm, some really interesting opinions on this subject. I think it is swinging me to "its not so broken" but mainly because there is worse things out there. I might just be being bias though.

They are humongous expensive, and in the same way you can raise them, you could just as easily crumble them in a duff combat. Lose combat by 1? 50 points go buh-bye.

 

[Griswald]

I totaly agree with blood knights 1+ caster Lvl.

But the next question came to my mind.

Vargheist (3 or 4 wounds? can't remember no rulebook with me) In a unit of 3. So they tottaly have 9 wounds.
They got shot and lose 2 wounds. do we distribute the 2 wounds over 2 models ? or give them all to 1 model? Since this gives a big difference for or ion! doesn't it?

And if the unit got 3 wounds. they lose a model (if they have 3 wounds don't remember); We cast ION on them. only 1 wound comes back since it's from that 1 dead model.

What do you guys think of this?

(i hope i explained it a bit clearly what i mean )

 

[cofius]

They have 3 wounds each, and in your case you can heal one wound with IoN and the other one with lore attribute...

 

[RobTheWise]

All wounds against a multi wounded unit are taken model by model.

E.g

A unit of 3 Varghiests take 4 wounds. 3 wounds are taken on one model and one wound is taken on another leaving you with one ghiest on 2 wounds and one on a full 3.

you can however heal 2 wounds on ghiests without the lore attribute if one of them is on 2 wounds. Because one wound is restored to bring one model to full strength, and another brings a second model back to life because the first model is already on full wounds, you can then use the lore att to get a 3rd wound restored too

 

[kevin.hopkins7]

You can look at the thread on varghiests for more info on this. here

You can however, take a champion on the ghiests. You now have to distribute shots between the champ and rank n file, so you can take more wounds before a model drops.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

You can however, take a champion on the ghiests. You now have to distribute shots between the champ and rank n file, so you can take more wounds before a model drops.

How does this happen? I must have missed it in the BRB.

 

[Melle]

if hits allocated on the champion, or if champion is in challenge for that mattter, and he takes, say 1 wound.
unit takes 2 wounds.
since hits are allocated at champion, you don't remove a model, spite taking total of 3 wounds.
then when IoN goes off, you get 1w/model
1 on champ, and 1 on the rnf vargheist.
and a 3rd from lore attribute, if you wish. at least that is how I think that means

 

[Yorga]

Does anyone really, actually think we will still be able to do this post faq? (if we ever get one) I mean . . . Really? One spell and boom! Up to 250 points of models back on the board.

I do.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

So in this instance you really want your champ getting into challenges and/or having people direct attacks to him?

What if you were running a dart formation 3x1 with vargoyle in front? Would he effectively suck up all of the attacks the first round??

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Unless they are at different I steps

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Fantastic B)

 

[Melle]

the swedish faq just ruled you only get 1 wound back on vampiric, from IoN, period. 1 blood knight, not 1+level because that was too OP
yay.....

edit:Sorry, i see this started some confusion. Swedish faq isnt official. at least not outside sweden, it goes with the swedish comp system. witch I follow, since i live in sweden. The faq often follow how most tournamentplayers interpret a rule or such.
Official FAQ's will change what's in the swedish comp, when they turn up.

 

[Johnny-Crass]

Sigh..... This is why I miss 'Ard Boyz

 

[Elbisrever]

the swedish faq just ruled you only get 1 wound back on vampiric, from IoN, period. 1 blood knight, not 1+level because that was too OP
yay.....

Really?! Damn it! I was just reading through these 3 pages of discussion and I was completly psyched that I read the rules wrong all this timne ( and we could actually get 1+lvl BK back from one casting), only to read at the last moment that it is a no-go. Damn it! :swear:

 

[The Talon]

Where do you see this faq? its not on the gw site. I checked every english speaking FAQ and theres no VC FAQ there