Question about multiple Blood Knight raising.

[RobTheWise]

Q: For units such as Vargheists and Blood Knights (which are
Vampiric), does a successful casting of Invocation of Nehek enable
them to regain 1 Wound per model, or 1 Wound in total? (p60)
A: A Vampiric unit can never regain more than 1 Wound from
Invocation of Nehek.

Well - that's that I guess :-(

 

[Griswald]

indeed, that's it. I'll will put a jarr of dust above my Bloodknights. They should get used to it!

 

[Elbisrever]

And since the rule is exactly the same for Ethereals and Large Targets, I shall maintain the rule likewise for them. Such a shame, I was really thinking about making a 10 strong Hexwraith unit :\

 

[Yorga]

And since the rule is exactly the same for Ethereals and Large Targets, I shall maintain the rule likewise for them. Such a shame, I was really thinking about making a 10 strong Hexwraith unit :\

Ethereals are our best speed bumps and redirectors. Terrorgheist is one of our best hammers IF you leave them out of combat. Hexwraithes don't cost and arm and a leg point and money wise like Blood Knights do.

 

[Elbisrever]

Oh don't get me wrong, I love both Ethereals and the Big Bats, I'm just annoyed that we can't raise more then one Hexy.

 

[TobiasRathein]

But the rule is NOT exactly the same after the FAQ, elbis.

 

[Melle]

the rule is still the same, but the clarification in the faq of how it should work only handles the vampiric, NOT the ethreal.

 

[Yorga]

Extrapolate guys. It applies to ethereals too! :swear:

 

[Elbisrever]

Yeah, really, this is just looking for cheese where there is no cheese to be found. As much as I would love for this to work, it just doesn´t

You can be damn sure that when the SAME rule aplies to Vampirics, Ethereals and Large Targets, but GW only discusses the Vampiric ones, it automaticly aplies to the other two as well. The FAQ was just a clarification for that rule´s behaviour in general.

But, I've decided to make my Hexy's anyway ^^

 

[gilbo12345]

I get the feeling that GW prefers us to have debates about questionable rules so that people are talking about warhammer and have it fresh in their mind... Valid business tactic, though does allow people to rip on them a bit

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Hmrph. Well that's a diaper full of poop...
But as I said before compare them points-wise to chaos knights with frenzy and lances and voila-- same cost. Blood knights are still viable, they should just be protected with some wolf chaff or what not. I'd like to see a plastic kit come out still (*cough* for $30 *cough*) But the hexwraiths I'll definitely have 5 of them to run in many lists.

 

[TobiasRathein]

There is no extrapolating, Yorga. That's assuming you know the intentions of the writers, which is something none of us are sure of. As such, it's rules as written. If you play otherwise it's a house ruling, plain and simple.

Edit:
You're completely wrong, Elbis. Until GW says it applies to the units you mentioned, guess what? It doesn't.

 

[Magpie]

Certainly the FAQ as written only applies to Vampiric units but the question itself only mentioned Vampiric units so the answer may well have been answering the question specifically and not considering the general case.

Much as it pains me, the "even handed player" in me tends to think that the Ethereal and Large units would be treated the same.

I blame whoever A'ed the Q in the first place, if they'd left well enough alone everything would have been sweet !

 

[Yorga]

There is no extrapolating, Yorga. That's assuming you know the intentions of the writers, which is something none of us are sure of. As such, it's rules as written. If you play otherwise it's a house ruling, plain and simple.

Edit:
You're completely wrong, Elbis. Until GW says it applies to the units you mentioned, guess what? It doesn't.

I disagree Tobias. This is certainly a case of 'what is good for the goose..." You seriously cannot expect GW to cover every nuance and lead us by the hand. All rules have to be interpreted. I'm a lawyer. I know this. If you think GW writes bad rules you should see what the People of the State of California write in their proposition laws. :slapface: What GW did with the rule clarification is to say they meant unit not model. I wanted the rule to be otherwise and thought the way they originally wrote was also RAI as the crumbling/overrun turned out to be. But sadly that is not the case.:grave:

 

[bigbadbat]

RAW in the army book allows for 1+LVL raising.
FAQ clarified rule in regard to VAMPIRIC UNITS. They also added the word UNITS, which clearly is a change from the original wording.
Ethereal models, such as hexwraiths, still benefit from 1 + lvl. Large targets would never benefit as such as they are multiple wound creatures that are their own unit.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

I still see the blood knights as a valuable tool in the army. They still wreck face. I don't think they will be collecting as much dust as everyone says.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

I side with Yorga. The question only pertained to Vampiric in the FAQ therefore they only answered for Vampiric; but ethereals and large targets would obviously get lumped in as the emphasis was on UNITS not VAMPIRIC (even in the question- the emphasis was on models vs units, not on does the rule only apply to vampiric models/units vs ethereals, large targets)

Example: Hexwraith and KoBK units RAW could be healed 1 + caster level as worded rules wrote models with vampiric, ethereal, large target can only ever regain 1 wound from IoN.
FAQ corrects and says "A Vampiric unit can never regain more than 1 Wound from Invocation of Nehek."
Now using my VC rulebook I see that Vampiric, Ethereals and Large Targets are all affected by the same rule disclaimer, yes?

Therefore when I insert them in to what GW FAQ'd they magically fit.
"A Vampiric, Ethereal or Large Target unit can never regain more than 1 Wound from Invocation of Nehek."
They were ALL mentioned in the disclaimer in the book, why would they ALL not pertain to the FAQ? That would be bending the rules in our favor...which is basically the nice way of cheating.

Sorry boys, I wanted 1 + caster level as well, and it's a kick in the dick after watching people get slayed terribly in battle reports. But we are just a different army from 7th Ed (which I didn't play, but from batreps I agree VC were a little bit too strong. We used to pop PD like they were tictacs lol). We are still a nasty, feared army with a boat load of cool units ad in that we are still a fearsome opponent :konrad:

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Yeah. I wanted 1+level as well, but it was really good that way. I think it's too early to say that this now makes BK crap as they are still hard to remove.

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

Certainly the FAQ as written only applies to Vampiric units but the question itself only mentioned Vampiric units so the answer may well have been answering the question specifically and not considering the general case.

Much as it pains me, the "even handed player" in me tends to think that the Ethereal and Large units would be treated the same.

I blame whoever A'ed the Q in the first place, if they'd left well enough alone everything would have been sweet !

@Magpie: Yeah I think that the person who asked the question should have also asked about ethereals and large target (although large targets are kinda obvious, being single model units) But the question only said vampiric, so the answer only said vampiric-- similarly GW could have included them all in the answer, but it was probably an oversight, or just implied (which they shouldn't be implying...)

But yeah, we shoulda kept our mouths shut and it never would have been FAQd in the first place erv:

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Certainly the FAQ as written only applies to Vampiric units but the question itself only mentioned Vampiric units so the answer may well have been answering the question specifically and not considering the general case.

Much as it pains me, the "even handed player" in me tends to think that the Ethereal and Large units would be treated the same.

I blame whoever A'ed the Q in the first place, if they'd left well enough alone everything would have been sweet !

@Magpie: Yeah I think that the person who asked the question should have also asked about ethereals and large target (although large targets are kinda obvious, being single model units) But the question only said vampiric, so the answer only said vampiric-- similarly GW could have included them all in the answer, but it was probably an oversight, or just implied (which they shouldn't be implying...)

But yeah, we shoulda kept our mouths shut and it never would have been FAQd in the first place erv:

I doubt that. Many non VC players were asking this question because they were hoping for an FAQ against the RAW because they cried OP and CHEESE over our BK. But we can still scream them to death. MUahahaha

 

[BloodbathMcGrath]

@Zilla can we scream in to combats that we are not in?
(I know, off-topic sorry people :/ )

 

[Elbisrever]

Like I said, I don't like it, but this is the way it is

But yeah, I really want to have another TG so I can field 2, with a Skabby, and just yell the big Jesus out of people

Off to the "Double Terrorgheist-thread"!

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Yep. So the FAQ is a win some lose some, but it works out okay for us anyway.

 

[TobiasRathein]

Yorga, while I personally think it's most likely a case of poor wording on the part of whoever wrote the FAQ, I will still play rules as written. I don't field many ethereal units in my army, but if I were to play someone who played IoN such that it raised Level+1 models, I would be perfectly okay with that.

I seem to recall everyone jumping on the "Well, Dark Acolyte doesn't work bandwagon," even though the voice of reason was more than obvious. As such, and until it's fixed, I'll play it exactly as written.

 

[Yorga]

RAW in the army book allows for 1+LVL raising.
FAQ clarified rule in regard to VAMPIRIC UNITS. They also added the word UNITS, which clearly is a change from the original wording.
Ethereal models, such as hexwraiths, still benefit from 1 + lvl. Large targets would never benefit as such as they are multiple wound creatures that are their own unit.

Sorry Bat but if you play that way it is cheating. Expect arguments in everyone of your games. I'm going to extrapolate and apply the rule to hexwraiths as well. Because that is what Phil or whoever wrote the damn FAQ meant. They figured we were smart enough to add 2+2 and get 4. If you want cav that gets 1 + level, select Black Knights.