RIP WHFB 2015
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Normally I'd agree with you, at that was my own semi-confident assessment just a few weeks ago, but it's those same rumor mongers who saw the end times coming who are delivering the current batch of rumors, and some of those rumors are very much at odds with what you're describing. Round bases and scrapped or highly changed factions in particular make pretty clear that newhammer as described would not be a gateway to 'Warhammer proper', because you won't be able to use the new models as a springboard into the old game.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
Dear Infernal Skull,
I been sollicitated to be realistic in my sentence. I presented a fact, an example, but still a fact. Now you are free to do whatever you want with that fact.
I have nor the time or energy, or the lust, to controll every single piece of the gw price increase during the years.
There is a big part of the community that sees the price inflated in an exagerated manner. Other like youserlf, obliviously, not.
In this part of the world we are still free to think and talk and say what we want. I hope is the same over there.
However anytime there is a discussion about economics things get heated. I guess is because is the only religion that matters anymore.
I belive the price are over the roof. I think it,I feel it and i have the proof,and as for the big mac 1001% in 47 (1967), is not that far from 580% in 25 years. Also considering the quality drop is really a prove to the decay of things in order to substain a reckless consumistic economics. Plus :
However I'm leaving you guys to this and any future reference on rumors and indiscretions for the same reason I stopped to follow the Cyberpunk 2077 forum after some months. Is just speculations and devil's advocate.
Emicrania, you still haven't answered my question of which versions of Goblin Fanatic are being compared, over what period of time. I do understand that anything appearing on Wikipedia is indisputable fact, but without some key factors (namely model pose, material, and release date) the information can't really be analyzed in any meaningful way. Do you understand how comparing the price of a metal Fanatic from 1983 to the price of a plastic fanatic in 1014 is not the same as comparing a metal Fanatic from 2001 to a plastic fanatic from 2013?
I'm sorry but you are making a massive assumption on incomplete and in some cases probably inaccurate information. As I've learnt in my many years in business. Never ever assume.
This round bases thing could be a massive red herring. In all likelihood the game will probably work just as well with some models on round and some on square and maybe all on square. I doubt that GW is going to mandate or even attempt to enforce round bases. It might be where they want to take the game system over time but from what I've read in those same rumours you have is that 8th army books and models work fine in 9th...sooo....whats the problem exactly...?
The only assumptions I'm making are assuming the rumors are correct for the sake of discussing said rumors. OF COURSE if the rumors are untrue my opinion will change. Why would that even need to be said?
Otherwise, even if you *can* use square base models in 9e, you really can't use round base models in 8e, especially for cavalry and small based infantry units. If the new stuff is sold on round bases then it simply isn't a springboard to the old game. If the rest of the rumors are true, that bit of wishful thinking just doesn't pan out.
Again, though, if the rumors are accurate. I'm still hoping against hope that they abandoned the round bases part way through, and that infantry, cav, and other ranked units at least will stay on square bases.
Otherwise, even if you *can* use square base models in 9e, you really can't use round base models in 8e, especially for cavalry and small based infantry units. If the new stuff is sold on round bases then it simply isn't a springboard to the old game. If the rest of the rumors are true, that bit of wishful thinking just doesn't pan out.
Again, though, if the rumors are accurate. I'm still hoping against hope that they abandoned the round bases part way through, and that infantry, cav, and other ranked units at least will stay on square bases.
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yeah - I can't really imagine how this round bases thing will work with some models...your right cavalry would just look weird on round bases...especially if your trying to rank them up...clunky at best? hmmmm...
Infernal Skull
Wight King
If I might wade in with a thought; I think that if the new edition flops badly they may simply roll back the changes over the next year or so slowly. Its very out of character for them to say old army books and their units are still valid when they would be wanting everyone to make the transition and buy into the new factions. It feels to me like a fallback plan, if and when it fails they wouldn't have burnt all of their bridges. Thats assuming any real thought ahead has been put into this, and I'm uncertain if that's giving them too much credit or wishful thinking on my part.
I guess it's possible this wave of ET models are the first batch that'll go OOP. They're moving the timeline 200 years? Was that the word? Not like Thanquol would still be alive.
Inb4 "But all the dead Special Characters already! Vlad!"
Inb4 "But all the dead Special Characters already! Vlad!"
Yeah, I don't think any of the current batch of characters, end times or otherwise, are going to make it into this new game, assuming rumors are accurate.
I would be happy to be surprised in this regard, but I would still be surprised.
I would be happy to be surprised in this regard, but I would still be surprised.
I think I saw this rumour on faeit212, not sure if it can from someone else first though.
New greater daemon would be cool.
I imagine an archaon on dragon will be the new broken, easily able to wipe the floor with KFA and Malekith :grave:
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
Not necessarily. None of these rumours are coming direct from the horse's mouth, and they're all subject to misconception somewhere in the chain. For instance "only 6 factions" could just as well mean that the books are being rolled into large alliances but the distinctions between them are being preserved. New units designated for a "faction" could merely be useable by any of the sub-factions (i.e. existing armybooks).
As for round bases, as I said a few tweaks to the combat rules re: units and there's fewer issues. Put the big units onto bases that fit "inside" their old bases and there's really no issue. They essentially have the same footprint as before, no big deal. You might even be able to put them onto square bases still...who knows.
The basic premise of my argument is that we really just plain don't know. There are pieces in the rumours that support what you say, but it's glued together by conjecture. We dont know if rounds will be mandatory, or what they'll change. We don't know how these factions will shake out. We don't know about backwards compatibility. We just...don't know.
Totally disagree. I gaurentee all the incarnates are in the new setting at least. Any models they are making for end times right now are all going to be in newhammer too.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
I'm pretty sure they work years ahead of the actual release dates. I've spoken with GW employees (former and current) who mentioned having seen certain models years prior to when it actually hit the shelf. You can't write a piece of fiction on the scale of the End Times books on the fly. They knew it would be the end cap to 8th and that 9th would follow. 9th was probably in the can (aside from minor tweaks and photos) before we even saw the first blurry picture of Nagash.
It seems unlikely that Thankquol would even be alive 200 years into the future. None of the incarnates even got new models (if one considers that Nagash isn't even a 'true' incarnate at this point, having bound the Lore of Death to Sylvania rather than to himself). And part of the rumor is already single production run limited release models intended to have sold out and no longer be in production a few months down the line. If the current schedules are to be believed, there's three to four months even between the archaon release and the new edition. If single run, limited releases are the new standard, than even a brand new archaon model could be intended to rotate out with 9th edition, let alone comparatively 'ancient' models like Thanquol, Nagash, or the Mortarchs. Thanquol would have been available for a full 6 months! Nagash almost a year! 6 months to a year is what most people are already guessing the lifetime of limited release models will be, no?
As for the 6 factions just being the current factions grouped into 6 collectives, that would be nice, but that is not what's rumored. Hopefully what's rumored will turn out to be mistaken, but there's actually a lot more detail to the faction rumors than just that there will be 6 of them. In particular, not only are there suposed to be six, but each of those six is suposed to have half or less the number of units currently available to an average army book today. They will be six mini factions compared to what we're currently used to, not six super factions. Again, if rumors are accurate.
And that particular rumor I find especially plausible, as part of the point of this massive change is to streamline the game and cut shelf and production space, such that even if it doesn't sell much better than currently, it at least doesn't represent an investment by the company far in excess of the 8% of their revenue that Fantasy supposedly brings in.
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I think the last few comments all hit the mark, whatever it is that's coming, it's done already. Pending on how ET ends, many of the new stuff could go away. GW's limited run comments suport this mixed with how they are already doing it. Much of our older items have already gone to direct only. As for the bases, it has to be for one of two reasons. 1. For a new look to tell them apart from the current line or 2. They are designed for easier movement. Makes no sense otherwise, not like they are trying to avoid the aftermarket base makers. Who knows, 20 years from now we might be having this same damm conversation again lol
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
They're killing off gods left right and centre. My guess is that they're making these "incarnates" into god-like figures to replace them, and build a lore around characters that have a distinctive presence in the background rather than a mish-mash of derivative "elder gods" specific to every faction, who even players of those armies often don't know the name of. I've played TK for years and outside of Asaph I couldn't name any of the gods off the top of my head.
Not exactly. Rumours that have come down so far include:
9th edition will have 6 factions. Model diversity cut in half shelf space. New world and new age so current factions and lore aren't recognizable at all. Each new faction has like 3 core units that will always be on the shelf. Much faster releases of stuff, mainly characters and special units of 2-5 fancy models (like Morghasts) that have their own rules right in the box, so not dependent on a static army book.
and
Expect armies to have fewer units in their core books, which will be heavily focused on the fluff for where they are now, what they've been doing in the centuries immediately following the sundering. This will create a more "balanced" pool as they will be rapidly produced and released (consider a scale even somewhat faster than what we've had for 40k these past few years).
Note that none of these are necessarily mutually exclusive with the notion of combined armies. They're hearing that model diversity will be "cut in half," and that there will be 6 factions (some say "reduced to" 6 factions). However it's all subsequent rumours that have elaborated on what that will mean.
Remember that these are RUMOURS, coming from unconfirmed sources and filtered through several channels. People mishear things. People misconstrue things. What we have concrete is 6 factions, a smaller range of kits than is presently available, round bases, and a move away from armybook-centric releases to a periodic release based on these smaller number of factions. People have filled in the gaps to describe what that means.
I absolutely agree. But that doesn't mean that they'll axe the whole line rather than move it to online-order-only. Nor does it mean that they'll invalidate existing rules, or that we won't have the same diversity EVENTUALLY. Nor that this diversity won't be available later online-only.
For instance, Faction 1 has Units A and B in core. C and D came out a year ago. E is the big new release.
Go to the store and you'll find A and B as usual, and E on display as the new shiny. C and D are available on the webstore though, if you want to order direct from the manufacturer. Model diversity is maintained, but stores can save precious shelf space and all it costs GW is a bit of space in the warehouse.
Part of the point of axing lines is no longer having to maintain molds, which apparently costs money to do.
Also, there are more rumors than that on the factions, including a listing of them (humans, elves, chaos, orcs, skaven, undead), and some of the aspects / expected 'core' units in them - elves not high/dark/wood but having a new style, core spears, archers, cav; chaos core warriors/gors/daemons, no ungors or marauders; humans more heavily armored & superheroesque, like 'good guy' chaos warriors, undead based around ghouls, skeletons, ghosts, definitely no Egyptian stuff; skaven and orcs not significantly changed in style, lizardmen gone completely, dwarves and ogres gone except for maybe a unit each in the human faction.
Also, there are more rumors than that on the factions, including a listing of them (humans, elves, chaos, orcs, skaven, undead), and some of the aspects / expected 'core' units in them - elves not high/dark/wood but having a new style, core spears, archers, cav; chaos core warriors/gors/daemons, no ungors or marauders; humans more heavily armored & superheroesque, like 'good guy' chaos warriors, undead based around ghouls, skeletons, ghosts, definitely no Egyptian stuff; skaven and orcs not significantly changed in style, lizardmen gone completely, dwarves and ogres gone except for maybe a unit each in the human faction.
Was thinking they could go back to a one book system like the orig. game was. Core units for the 6 groups plus rank, file & etc. Printed there. Info. Special troops and limited will now go to the data sheet deal in WD. Easy pleasy. No more army books like now so they don't have to keep up with much.
AFAIK, that's what's expected. Core book with most basic units for all factions included, future units all limited release with rules in boxes & white dwarf.
I allready have stuff on round bases, my RBT´s! 
What have we actually seen that´s on round bases? A lightning cannon (WM) and the bell (now unique, but could very well function as a WM in the future). I belive the anvil of doom is also on a round base 
Having stuff on round bases that doesnt have flanks or a rear doesnt sound all too unreasonable 
What have we actually seen that´s on round bases? A lightning cannon (WM) and the bell (now unique, but could very well function as a WM in the future). I belive the anvil of doom is also on a round base Having stuff on round bases that doesnt have flanks or a rear doesnt sound all too unreasonable 
I wanted to voice an opinion on this. I have been playing warhammer.....15 years now roughly. And it's lore and world have always been a deep draw for me. Constant conflict in a world rife with possibilities. I did not freak out over the end times, in fact I welcomed the turmoil the warhammer world and have been enjoying many aspects thoroughly both from a fluff standpoint and from a balance standpoint. (I find the new magic phase incredibly interesting, rather than 6 dice pit, you lose etc etc) But if the rumors are true, I will be absolutely dissappointed. Planar bubbles? What the fuck? What is this Twilight Zone warhammer?
Even if a dramatic change were coming they could have done so many wonderful things with the world....The empire could have been razed and instead been replaced by a barbarian like tribe fashioned after sigmar of old. Civilization rebuilding itself from it's roots once again. Many awesome possibilities could have come from this and many plausible balance changes (no more cannons?) The ogres could have been fashioned into this new faction, or they could have re-worked them as well. I don't want dimensional cascades and planar bubbles. I want men and monsters stomping out to the warcries of their respective gods and civilizations sending out challenges or valiantly defending. Thats the fluff. It's medievil.
Why don't we just have James Kirk as a special character for all of the factions of the future now. He ripples in through a dimensional cascade to trick the demons and bring those furry things to the world of warhammer.
Cause that makes sense too.
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
Molds cost money to maintain, but excess product costs WAY more when it's clogging up shelf space.
Here's another way of thinking, though. Presently GW makes money by rotating a number of relatively comparable choices in and out of favour. Black Guard were superior in 7th ed DE, but Execs got bumped up in 8th. Treekin got toned down while waywatchers got tuned up. Pushing Witch Elves to core made them fantastic, while spearmen/swordsmen became obselete.
When they're switching between one unit or the other of a dual kit there's not much lost...but when an entire kit gets rounded out of existence? Not good.
For instance, how many VC players run a black coach? Like...four? Out of nostalgia? What point is there in maintaining that kit when everyone who runs one has it from 3 editions ago, and they can just make a new and better kit should they ever re-release the rules.
Thus take the VC book for example. Blood knights, black coaches, bat swarms...can all go. Nobody buys those kits. Fellbats are hideous models and relatively redundant with direwolves/spirit wolves, so can also probably go. The entire character model line vis a vis Vampires can be axed and replaced with a single multikit like the Empire General. SCs can be replaced by limited-edition runs of collectable models. Realistically speaking the Varghulf model can also be axed (even though I love that model it's been around forever and I bet it doesn't sell much these days). Wraiths and banshees probably aren't super cost-effective kits either. As are corpse carts (expensive kit that makes one model, that many players probably don't buy/own/use).
That reduces the VC line dramatically. What we're left with is:
Hero/Lords:
Vampire Kit
Wight Kit
Necro clampack
Core:
Skeletons
Zombies
Ghouls
Direwolves
Special
Grave Guard
Hexxies/BK
Vargs/CH
Spirit hosts
Rare:
ME/Coven Throne
Terrorgheist/Zombie Dragon
Morghasts
Cuts the model range in half. Reduces only to those units people actually buy. The units that are cut are the sort that only collectors want/run/own. I would also argue that it still gives a number of distinctive styles of play.
Now round that out with a Morghast-style unit say...once a year, as is rumoured. Stick it on the shelf and see how it sells. At the end of the year compare its sales to those of other comparable kits. New kit selling better than Mortis Engines? Stop making mortis engines. Build a new kit and stick THAT on the shelf. Move last year's new kit to online-only. Rinse+repeat.
Thing is...the Warhammer world still exists. Just like Forgotten Realms still exists. There's an immense history of lore there, and they could simply release occasional campaigns based on historical battles to get your juices flowing (like they do with the occasional forgotten realms sourcebooks.
However, like forgotten realms, the Warhammer World is played out. People are tired of Archaon being "almost ready" to invade. People are tired of the same skirmishes along the same borders. People want something new to jazz them up.
"Planar worlds" gives this. It's an interesting idea that could be used to build a REALLY cool world. It'll be a bit bizarre, and execution will matter, but the fluff in End Times has been FANTASTIC. I have 100% confidence that a cool, GW-made planar world has the POTENTIAL to be awesome.
I thought that's the route they were going as well. However...this doesn't need to be any less medieval.
People are suggesting that the "worlds collide" thing is 100% random, but it need not be. It could be that travel between the worlds is largely stable, and that inter-planar travel along relatively stable routes is possible.
Imagine it like a giant archipelago, made up of little pockets of planar space. Some of those islands are clustered close to each other, and establish trading routes and open lines of communication. The elves are on one such cluster of islands, the lizardmen on another. The humans are spread out all over. The dwarfs have moved from strongholds onto massive airships and travel between the islands like seafaring traders, and hired the Ogres to serve as their bodyguards permanently. These good nations are all relatively close to each other, and relatively peaceful.
Hostile nations still exist too. Chaos would infect various islands like a plague, and occasionally islands would get sucked into the warp. Nagash' powerful magics would have kept Sylvannia together intact, which becomes a powerful pulsing beacon of undeath that spreads like a slow-moving spiderweb. Skaven enter islands surreptitiously and slowly build their forces beneath the surface until they spring up and attempt to overthrow its denizens.
However the ocean is not stable. Occasionally a new island will pop up out of nowhere, and nearby island-nations will rush to exploit its resources. Perhaps that island will turn out to be a gateway into a hostile cluster, and nearby nations will need to rally together to defend it against whatever fell incursion comes through. Or perhaps an island will simply break away from the cluster and drift off into a hostile cluster alltogether, and its denizens will need to battle off evil from all sides to buy time for mages frantically opening portals to save as many lives as they can.
Perhaps things are a little more steampunk than medieval, but they've always been that way in WHFB. There are still gods and civilizations, just these civilizations don't have defined geographical borders on a 2d map but instead on rough latticework of interconnected planes.
Best part is that it creates WAY more justification for campaigns than the present world. Campaigns whose stakes can be raised without putting an entire civilization at risk. In the present world you get caught in a trap of constant brinksmanship, where Archaon must always be 1 step from invasion but never actually DO it.
They do this in 40K. They create new worlds for campaigns then destroy them based on the outcome. Your battle affects civilizations, but they don't have to rewrite the BRB fluff because the good guys lost a campaign.