RIP WHFB 2015
- Thread starter Adam_Barrow
- Start date
-
The masquerade of murder returns! A new game of Vampires Amongst Us has begun. Unmask the killers, trust no one, and try to survive the night. Find out more and sign up now!
Um...how can you 'guarantee' that? Are you actually Mr. Kirby incognito? :tongue:
[QUOTE="Steapa,]
Why don't we just have James Kirk as a special character for all of the factions of the future now. He ripples in through a dimensional cascade to trick the demons and bring those furry things to the world of warhammer.
Cause that makes sense too.[/QUOTE]
That would violate the Prime Directive.
Why don't we just have James Kirk as a special character for all of the factions of the future now. He ripples in through a dimensional cascade to trick the demons and bring those furry things to the world of warhammer.
Cause that makes sense too.[/QUOTE]
That would violate the Prime Directive.
Lol, OK fair enough.
I'm not talking about going nuts with this whole eye of terror/ bubble world thing. Used subtlely it could be really awesome. First, if most of the old world is geographically intact but connected by warp rifts and there are places where multiple worlds interact, you gain much more varied terrain, story options and potential for new races, monsters and army add-ons. Things can get a bit more high fantasy and dangerous, while still having places that are the familiar warhammer world we love. Second, it just has to be handled with some grace. Don't go bubble world cranked to 11, stay at warhammer with bubble worlds connected to it. Only crank the bubbles to like 4 or 5.
I'm not talking about going nuts with this whole eye of terror/ bubble world thing. Used subtlely it could be really awesome. First, if most of the old world is geographically intact but connected by warp rifts and there are places where multiple worlds interact, you gain much more varied terrain, story options and potential for new races, monsters and army add-ons. Things can get a bit more high fantasy and dangerous, while still having places that are the familiar warhammer world we love. Second, it just has to be handled with some grace. Don't go bubble world cranked to 11, stay at warhammer with bubble worlds connected to it. Only crank the bubbles to like 4 or 5.
Draykorinee
Grave Guard
I'm quite new to this game, and these changes sound very off putting. My friend and I discussed it earlier and we'll try it out but anticipate sticking to 8th edition.
I've been playing Warhammer since its 3rd edition. 3rd edition was the most complicated rules wise. 4th was the first streamlining/ simplification. 5th was similar to 4th but where herohammer comes from because mounted characters were unstoppable and could charge in and break whole regiments on their own. 6th was an amazing edition where everything got overhauled and focused on the regiments again, thus fixing herohammer. 7th bulked up 6th a bit and got to fiddly with the rules. Some very broken armies showed up in this time, namely Vampires and Daemons. 8th grew out of removing guess ranges and allowing premeasuring combined with making the game bigger and more epic.
Every edition of Warhammer has been better than the one before, for the most part. GW learns from their mistakes and fixes them every time. Sometimes new mistakes pop up (laser guided cannons), but as a whole the game has only gotten better. The lore has grown and cycled during this time too. But at its heart, it has the same roots (which you can see in the link I posted above). Truthfully, 8th has some major barriers to new players learning it because of the way the book is laid out and the size of armies it expects you to play with. We went from regiments of 20 to 40. Armies have nearly doubled in size from when I first started playing. I personally love it, but its very difficult to play small point values with new players and then have all of the dots connect for them.
In all likelihood, 9th will continue evolving the rules for the better and still tie the lore we love into it. The game that is coming is going to be Warhammer, just Warhammer post apocalypse :tongue:
EDIT:
I forgot to put the link in here... ok check this out if you want your mind BLOWN! https://www.vampirecounts.net/threads/slaan-in-space-wfb-9th-back-to-its-roots.28492/
People should be most worried about losing their armies, not sure if this was discussed already? Some armies are deffo going to get axed, or melded into some other more popular army.
Personally I do not care all that much. I mostly use the setting for roleplay and avoiding End Times is a very easy task.
Personally I do not care all that much. I mostly use the setting for roleplay and avoiding End Times is a very easy task.
This doesn't do it for me. Might be fun in a computer game though.... I prefer the feel of an ancient world, with artifacts, hidden knowledge and old evils. A floating bubble world meh.. They played wow on Draenor 2 much....
Don't fix shit that works.
Don't fix shit that works.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
I'm pretty sure, if the world is fractured, they'll write it better than "bubbles" floating in the warp. I recently wrote a blog post about the rumors, and my take on the bubbles and prediction of how it will all go down was this:
There's talk of the 8th edition army books still being valid, and all the End Times rules and lists still being playable. The "bubbles" of reality will probably be rifts in space-time, allowing the past (Warhammer 8th army book lists), the End Times, and "Newhammer" to exist simultaneously. In the future of 9th edition, the world may well be shattered with fragments of it held together by the Winds of Magic, each trapped in its own time period. This could be a way of allowing everyone to have their own unique universe– one group plays with straight 8th edition rules, another plays with End Times, and others play whatever the new (possibly skirmish) form or Warhammer will be. Since the rules and models will be cross compatible, Someone from group A can tweak his list to play a game with someone from group C. If they need a logical reason as to why a pre-End Times army is fighting a Post Apocalyptic Warhammer force, it's simple: The barrier between worlds had dropped, or the realities have merged allowing armies from different time periods to interact.
The whole post is here if anyone is interested.
There's talk of the 8th edition army books still being valid, and all the End Times rules and lists still being playable. The "bubbles" of reality will probably be rifts in space-time, allowing the past (Warhammer 8th army book lists), the End Times, and "Newhammer" to exist simultaneously. In the future of 9th edition, the world may well be shattered with fragments of it held together by the Winds of Magic, each trapped in its own time period. This could be a way of allowing everyone to have their own unique universe– one group plays with straight 8th edition rules, another plays with End Times, and others play whatever the new (possibly skirmish) form or Warhammer will be. Since the rules and models will be cross compatible, Someone from group A can tweak his list to play a game with someone from group C. If they need a logical reason as to why a pre-End Times army is fighting a Post Apocalyptic Warhammer force, it's simple: The barrier between worlds had dropped, or the realities have merged allowing armies from different time periods to interact.
The whole post is here if anyone is interested.
If they do it like this we're all good. Sounds amazing. Can't wait to see how it actually pans out..
I refuse to believe that the new über cool endtime models will get axed all of them. Especially because I got my eye on Thanquol & Boneripper
See, this is what you get. People whine and whinge because they want the timeline to move forward. And so what do we get? Bubblehammer.
Personally I'm not too concerned about the changes. I like WHFB 8th edition, so if 9th turns out to be some bubblehammer monstrosity, then I'll just throw it in the bin and keep playing 8th.
Personally I'm not too concerned about the changes. I like WHFB 8th edition, so if 9th turns out to be some bubblehammer monstrosity, then I'll just throw it in the bin and keep playing 8th.
I've read both ET nagash, glottkin and started on Thanquol last night, all the fluff is very well handled and very epic, I'll very much give them the benefit of the doubt on how they handle the cataclysm that might lead to bubblehammer.. I could very well turn out much better than what we have now.!
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
Seeing as none of the good guys are getting end times and two of them are basically being deleted, I can't imagine there still being a story to play out by the end of this.
Have you read the books, the good guys feature heavily and have their own chapters in the books..
We'll see what happens when archaeon hits the shelves but not all of the good guys are dead after that..
We'll see what happens when archaeon hits the shelves but not all of the good guys are dead after that..
In the end of ET: Glottkin, they beat back the forces of nurgle from altdorf and starts to rebuild although they suffered heavy casualties, both empire and bretonians
I'm just afraid that 9th will all be about unit abilities. Special rules like Warmachine/Hordes. Seem like they might be moving to the generic movement and maneuver we see in 40K. All infantry move X. All cav move X. All vehicles (chariots in warhammer) move X. Wheeling and turning is removed from the game. You move, do your shooting and magic and then assault. I really don't want that game.
Considering how much effort they are putting into End Times and how well they have handled Warhammer Fantasy's fluff (proven by everyone saying how much they love the lore, armies and history and the overall positive reaction to End Times) AND that what makes Warhammer Fantasy unique is the regimental facing/arcs. There is no indication that they A) won't continue to handle the fluff well B) that there won't be facing/arcs.
They are taking great pains to put very powerful story elements into place. Each of the Incarnates are key characters from each of the armies. All of the armies are still represented in the fluff. Even Lizardmen are still in the setting. Lustria might be floating in chunks, but it hasn't flown off into space.
Considering how much we love all of their work till now, GW deserves us waiting to see what 9th is like before we jump to conclusions or flip out.
They are taking great pains to put very powerful story elements into place. Each of the Incarnates are key characters from each of the armies. All of the armies are still represented in the fluff. Even Lizardmen are still in the setting. Lustria might be floating in chunks, but it hasn't flown off into space.
Considering how much we love all of their work till now, GW deserves us waiting to see what 9th is like before we jump to conclusions or flip out.
I am not super concerned about the fluff. Honestly, I don't see warp bubbles having the same potential for dramatic narrative, but that doesn't mean they can't be handled well.
Everthing else, though - round bases, loss of factions, going to a 'limited edition' model for all future releases, the likelihood of the game just being shelved altogether if the new edition isn't immediately successful combined with the likelihood that it will take quite a bit of time for it to win over a new audience what with so much of the old audience likely to be upset by the changes - all that stuff I remain worried about.
Everthing else, though - round bases, loss of factions, going to a 'limited edition' model for all future releases, the likelihood of the game just being shelved altogether if the new edition isn't immediately successful combined with the likelihood that it will take quite a bit of time for it to win over a new audience what with so much of the old audience likely to be upset by the changes - all that stuff I remain worried about.
Handled well or not, moving from a physical world to warp bubbles will put some people off, me included.
I agree with Malisteen about the rest.
I'm saying the round bases, warp bubbles and squatting of armies is likely all over exaggerated.
Especially when compared with the other half of the rumors, that armies remain compatible and game play still has formations.
When 9th hits, none of this stuff may prove to even be true or it may be skewed.
Especially when compared with the other half of the rumors, that armies remain compatible and game play still has formations.
When 9th hits, none of this stuff may prove to even be true or it may be skewed.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
I'm really hoping they don't go with tons of extra special rules for each model/ unit. (That's actually one of the things that puts me off Warmachine). EVERY model in the same faction has its own unique special rules and/or combinations of rules, and everything buffs everything else, meaning that nothing really plays at face value. In Warhammer, you really don't need to know the special rules and weapon stats of every other army. A halberd is a halberd, and most stats average out across the board. In Warmachine, not knowing every special rule or every other army and model, and knowing the math of who can hit what reliably is essential for gameplay.
5th Edition Undead was kind of a pain because some units were unbreakable, some auto broke, some could pursue, ghouls would feast... it was kind of mess. I was really happy when 6th evened out the undead rules for VC (although I do miss having "alive" ghouls and bats).
Regardless of how the rumors turn out, this is the first time since 5th where the basic fundamental game play has been in question. Sure, we lost little things here and there like flying high and "snaking" formation but I don't miss them. Fleeing and pursuing has been dumbed down a little, but at least it's concise. In all that time, though we were never afraid that Warhammer wouldn't be Warhammer anymore.
I guess the biggest shift was going from 5th to 6th, when the army composition changed, but armies were still armies, units still units, and movement still movement.
(Although if they do remove any kind of maneuvering in 9th, maybe I can finally play a game and not worry about my opponent screwing up his wheeling EVERY TIME.)
5th Edition Undead was kind of a pain because some units were unbreakable, some auto broke, some could pursue, ghouls would feast... it was kind of mess. I was really happy when 6th evened out the undead rules for VC (although I do miss having "alive" ghouls and bats).
Regardless of how the rumors turn out, this is the first time since 5th where the basic fundamental game play has been in question. Sure, we lost little things here and there like flying high and "snaking" formation but I don't miss them. Fleeing and pursuing has been dumbed down a little, but at least it's concise. In all that time, though we were never afraid that Warhammer wouldn't be Warhammer anymore.
I guess the biggest shift was going from 5th to 6th, when the army composition changed, but armies were still armies, units still units, and movement still movement.
(Although if they do remove any kind of maneuvering in 9th, maybe I can finally play a game and not worry about my opponent screwing up his wheeling EVERY TIME.)
Or it may be as bad as people fear, or it may be worse. No one knows, and wont for a few months at leasst. Most if not all arent condeming 9th, just discussing what it may be and being cautious or stopping spending till then depending on how much of the rumoured changes they dont like the sound of.
Chris Dresden
Skeleton
The thing I'm hating the most right now is all the one upmanship that puts outsiders off our hobby. The reason these rumours are so prolific is because members of our hobby have this weird need to know first or be better than everyone else.
Seriously every forum has more than 10 of these kind of threads as well as facebook pages, we're not doing ourselves any favours.
Seriously every forum has more than 10 of these kind of threads as well as facebook pages, we're not doing ourselves any favours.
I'm not jumping...I am holding on by my fingers as my feet hang over the cliff. :lol:
There is a lot of truth to this. I totally understand why GW hates leaks. They DO seriously affect what we will buy. Take for instance this infamous "Harry" that seems to get things pretty 'right on' with his rumors. He has to be a GW employee and somebody high up that he gets such information about games in development. I have to ask myself, does he even want his company to thrive? Based on leaks alone, I'm not buying any of these wonderful new EoT models. One exception I am going to pick up the new Greyseer/Warlord model. But certainly not Thanquol or the Stormfiends. I actually think both models are quite nice. But I am too worried that they will be invalidated in 9th. This guy Harry would actually do us (and most importantly the company he works for) a big favor if he would stop his need to gossip.
And yes before you call me a hypocrite, I will read and react to said gossip because it affects my pocket book. I have a Skaven Army now. I had one before that I sold. I recall telling the buyer, "These cool wheel things are paperweights now. The Skaven don't have Doomwheels anymore."
My point is as a whole GW has been improving Warhammer with every edition. I honestly look back at previous editions and 8th is the best incarnation of the game. I would prefer it if 8th was smoothed out more like 6th was, as 8th has some places in the rules that power spike (WoC daemon princes, nuke spells, laser cannons, etc), but as a whole 8th is very solid of a mass wargame. Its major flaws though are 1) it became cluttered in how its rules are laid out 2) it encourages units twice the size of previous editions 3) its learning curve is steep and bumpy before its smooth sailing.
Now, if GW were too remove or smooth out the bumpy parts. You are still left with a very solid, tactical game. If they then help it scale (like older editions) then new players can get in with smaller investment and when we play them we can come down in point value and still have a good game. I look forward to this, honestly. Warhammer had become help me build my 2400-3000 all comers army. That needs to change.
Then look at the End Times models coming out. That is the face of the new Warhammer to come. Its not going to be Fantasy in space or Warma/hordes. Its going to be Blightkings, Stormfiends, and Morghasts. We are going to see a fantasy that is less generic and more specific. All of the chaos gods stuff will be the same, except maybe beastmen getting god specific units instead of generic goatmen. Skaven will get more arcane techno and horned rat elements. The undead will become more tied to the Wind of Death and the underworld. Elves are going to embrace their Phoenix and Khaine themes, possibly gaining specialized troops and spellcasters in a fantasy approach to the eldar. Lizardmen will connect to their Old Ones legacy, which is why they saved parts of lustria and their temples. In fact, I bet most of the bubble rumor ties to whatever magics the lizardmen are going to use secure their destiny.
The rumor of the core troops for each army being thinned downed and shared is a good sign too. It means that though they may be cutting down the generic stuff, in some fashion, it will remain as those things bulk up the armies and give them their basic themes. For example, skeletons, ghouls, zombies and wights being undead core. For elves, spearmen, elven riders, archers. For Chaos, it'd be the warriors, knights and chariots maybe. Getting rid of marauders in exchange for a more armored evil army look. Daemons and god specific beastmen making up the rest of the army and being core if your general is one of them (again).
I really doubt that Warhammer is going to lose 30 years of history, lore, intellectual property and not take us in a direction that builds excitingly well off of all that.
Take the possibility of the Empire. Empire, Bretonnia and Dwarfs are all slower sellers. Cool lore/fluff, but not high enough interest in them to keep producing the armies like they do. So, newhammer allows you to play the old lists as is still. Ok, so no harm no fowl. Then it has a new version of Empire. In this version, Karl Franz is an Incarnate. Bound to the wind of Heavens. He has supernatural powers, the Warhammer namesake is a potent and frightening legendary artifact in the setting now. He has an order of knights around him that are some chosen bloodline of Sigmar. Even better yet, maybe Franz dies and he becomes a "good" chaos god, binding the powers of incarnate into some holy order of Sigmar Knights. These guys end up with blessings of Sigmar, special weapons tied to the Wind of Heavens etc. They become basically the anti-chaos warriors in fantasy. That could be pretty awesome.
Then you take all of the awesome elements of Bretonnia - The Lady, Prophetesses, Grail Knights, Virtues, Questing Knights, etc and plop in the remnants of Bretonnia. Make it part of the empire by having Bretonnian refuges get sanctuary in New Altdorf. The knights swear allegiance to the new Empire. Same for the dwarfs. Slayers, Ironbreakers, Irondrakes, Longbeards etc all make their way into the new Empire army. They become the engineers and weapon/armor smiths now that Nuln is destroyed. You leave enough of the more popular elements of these armies within the Empire. Enough that a player who wants to use Bretonnian knights and Lady's Blessings (now in the form of gifts) along with state spearmen, swordsmen etc from the empire (that they can use their peasant models to represent), they can still field a Bretonnian army. Same goes for the Dwarfs. If the right pieces are their, all the war machines and iconic regiments make their way in and you basically still have your dwarf army.
But what is also created out of it, is a new empire. One with the rich history of the Warhammer world, an alliance of men and dwarves (maybe Ogres, though its better if they go to the Orcs) working together to survive the apocalypse of the End Times. Rebuilding civilization from the ashes of the Empire, Bretonnia and the Dwarfs strong holds. They're future becomes threatened and unknown and one of humanity struggling against the darkness that surrounds them. The elves, chaos, undead, orcs and goblins and skaven now are all very real threats to man's broken kingdom but they all have reasons to work together too against one another. Elves would find shelter within the World Roots and Athel Loren, perhaps even other warp pockets (similar to eldar in 40k) using the world roots to enter into battle. The undead would be connected to the underworld and lead by Nagash and Arkhan from the mobile Black Pyramid. Their reach through necromancy and the black pyramid, plus paths through the underworld via the wind of death unlimited. Orcs, goblins and ogres could have gone wild. Migrating and claiming the ruined kingdoms now abandoned. Raiding and ravaging the fringes of civilization. The horde in abundance, free to scour the lands. Chaos likewise tied to the wastes, the realm of chaos and whatever eye of terror effect coming. Some warbands wander, some conqueror and some use the warp to attack. Chaos would become a threat that strikes in different eras, times, and places based on the whims of the Chaos Gods. Skaven would build above ground and connect their kingdoms with the remains of the under-empire. Shrines to the great horned rat decorate the landscape. Their network of tunnels and skitterleap type magics allowing them to get anywhere. The lizardmen would float on the sky temples. Their lands held aloft and drift over the world. They go in search of lost treasures of the old ones and put them into use. Striking from the sky and still using magic to create portals and march their armies into anywhere they need to be. I expect lizardmen to have more features like the Engine of the Gods and troops armed with that type of "technology".
This setting could happen and it would be mindblowing. The old black and white Forces of Order and Destruction would be gone. A new world built from the ruin of the old, familiar yet strange and exciting. Tapping into all of the rich history and lore and giving us a new and unpredictable story to build armies and stage battles around. GW will have successfully put a whole new spin on the geo-political aspects of a fantasy wargame and given Warhammer a much needed breath of new life. The end result of the End Times could be down right amazing.