Should GW release Bretonnians as an Empire supplement?

[Ripper]

I read comments from a guy claiming he had 'super secret sources' claiming Bretonnia was going to get folded into the Empire. I put no stock in the rumor.

But I do think it would be an excellent idea. Just curious who else agrees.

Just keep a few of the key units KotR, errants, grail knights, questing knights, peasants, and leave it at that. Have them be a province of the Empire.

And maybe do the same thing for Wood Elves, with the trick there being you could fold them into both the HE and DE books.

 

[Sanai]

I think it is a terrible idea- it would mean losing units (which would result in some models being unusable), losing the potential for new units with a release, losing the space in a full army book which would be filled with background and artwork and generally alienating Bretonian players.

 

[Blutsauger]

I think it would be an awful idea. The Bretonnians have a strong following of players, and not all of them are Bretonnian players, who appreciate the idea of a much more medieval area of the old world, who appreciate the knights in shining armour theme, and who like the idea of Bretonnia as a strong and independent kingdom rather than a province of another kingdom. I'd hate to see Bretonnia released as an Empire supplement.

 

[Borgnine]

While I also think this is an awful idea I think that I'd rather have bretonnians as an empire supplement than squatted out forever with no chance for an update or even a tiniest bit of attention ;/

 

[Adam_Barrow]

I'd be interested in Brets and Wood Elves as one book.

 

[Sanai]

Cramming two factions into any one book, or reducing an army to a faction of another army is always a bad idea. All of the existing factions that have their own army books have their own army books because they deserve their own book. Some take a while to get updated but all players have to do is be patient and they will come (40k Orks have had one of the longest waits, and are strongly rumoured to be be getting a new book this year. Brets and Wood Elves are not far of either).

Brets and Wood Elves only have one thing in common- geography. In every other aspects Wood Elves are utterly alien and foreign to the Bretonians.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Brets and Wood Elves only have one thing in common- geography. In every other aspects Wood Elves are utterly alien and foreign to the Bretonians.

Unless it turned out the Lady was actually a Wood Elf druid or something. And that's the first thing I thought of off the top of my head. But that would require moving fluff forward. They like stagnant over at gw.

 

[Lord Elpus]

Dear gods no!!!! Especially if Mat Ward is writing it!!!!!

Brets deserve a book of their own, and Wood elves certainly do too!!
(course being a long time WE player since 4th ed, I would say that) There's not much that needs plugging in either book model wise, just the rules need a drastic overhaul. WE's getting nobbled by mysterious forest and skirmish rules......

Both armies have a very strong visual style and great background and it would be a crying shame for that to be lost/ condensed by a joint book. Look at the 2nd ed Angels of death codex for an example of what it would be like.....

 

[Adam_Barrow]

I'd also like Brets to have some Ethereals. Half their fluff is about ghost knights, it seems like.

I posted a thread some while back about how I'd like to see the books combined. It met with similar outcry.

 

[Sanai]

Some mysteries (like the lady of the lake, the missing primarchs, the true identity of Vlad, etc) are best left unresolved- a mystery often loses its power and the fun of discussing it once you provide answers to it.

 

[Count CocoFang]

I'd rather not see them reduced to supplement status but if it did happen I'd hope GW would have the sense not to make them into an Empire province. It would be better to keep them as Allied units in the fluff if they were going to be a supplement. Even better to give them a fancy new book and models, but that's just my bias talking.

 

[Ripper]

While I also think this is an awful idea I think that I'd rather have bretonnians as an empire supplement than squatted out forever with no chance for an update or even a tiniest bit of attention ;/

Yeah this is kind of what I was getting at. They could get updated rules a lot faster this way.

You could always run an all-Bretonnian or all-WE army, but since they wouldn't be full books, you could also combine with the Empire/HE/DE books to flesh out your army.

I think it's a good idea because they could do it as a supplement and just get it done so we'd have updated rules for Brets and WE that actually work in 8th.

 

[Sanai]

Sisters of Battle players would tell you- having a supplement or half a codex is not a satisfying substitute for having a real codex. Bretonians and Wood Elves don't have much longer to wait for an army book- there is no need for them to rush out a supplement or joint army book.

 

[Dimreapa]

Sisters of Battle players would tell you- having a supplement or half a codex is not a satisfying substitute for having a real codex.

Speaking as a Sisters Player (and one without a friggin' ipad at that), supplements are bollocks. I have not read a single supplement that hasn't been too many pages of unsatisfying fluff and too few pages of actual content, and those rules that are there invariably demonstrate a lack of effort (although to be fair I've always had a problem with the name Games Workshop, because the word "work" seldom comes to mind when I picture the Rules Dev Team) or an abundance of cheese (if you're Tau or Eldar). The only one I vaguely like is the Sisters one, and the worst, is Iyanden (proof positive to the contrary of the 'Ward's getting better' fanboys) and they printed that one off.

To coin a Sister's analogy, my mascara is running with tears of joy... on Silver #@&^ing power armour.

If you're an army that doesn't sell well, the default expectation is getting a half-baked codex as a punishment. Let's face it, a supplement isn't improbable (double points to join Sisters with a lack of printed versions as well) but it isn't a good idea. They're all awful, and they're all overpriced.

The primary codices and army books are all overpriced anyway.

Besides, GW could remind you how much you suck for liking Arthurian Knights and not Dark Elves by giving you a White Dwarf Army List!


Personally I want to see army books, but I wouldn't be surprised if GW endeavoured to annoy more of their fanbase again. They're pretty good at that.

 

[Skittelz1981]

Horrible idea tbh.
Bretonnia should just have a complete new armybook of its own and sure as hell shouldnt be a part of the empire, thats just blasphemy.

 

[John Rainbow]

Horrible idea tbh.
Bretonnia should just have a complete new armybook of its own and sure as hell shouldnt be a part of the empire, thats just blasphemy.

Quoted for truth!

 

[Ripper]

First a bunch of bret units were brought off the gw site and now... Empire Knights.

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/armySubUnitCats.jsp?catId=cat440091a&rootCatGameStyle=wh

 

[Borgnine]

Corpse Cart also disappeared... what the hell is going there in GW?

EDIT: Empire cavalry, maybe they are really getting merged with brets.... Armybook: The Peoples - that would be great...

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

Perhaps they going to release a dual kit for knights. One kit has the parts to make empire or bret knights?

 

[Skittelz1981]

EDIT: Empire cavalry, maybe they are really getting merged with brets.... Armybook: The Peoples - that would be great...

Really? you would think this is great? We clearly do not share the same opinion on that matter :O

Imo it would be a complete loss to have an entire race like Bretonnia, with all its rich fluff and wildly different from Empire, merge with the latter. Even less forces of Order to choose from.

2 of Order are completely outdated, 3 until very recently so Order is really an underappreciated alignmentcamp. Losing Bretonnians to a merger with Empire is a shame, both in practical choices as what to buy/play as in fluff. How would the Bretonnian kingdom ever be part of an Empire that is completely divided amongst itself, they do not share the same culture/beliefs.
With a nice rewriting of the AB the bretonnians should get a fair place as an army by itself likely focused again on heavy and light cavalry and cheap peasants.

For some more reallife inspiration i can strongly recommend any of you to watch this clip its fun
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzDUFrOkoNM

Also another very nice clip which is this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAiuQWHX7_c
Thalassa is a famous french tv-show that picks a part of the world and then details tremendously on its history, culture, and anything that has to do with that region and offers stunning camerashots of landscapes.
If you speak french or understand it youre lucky since the narrator is a very interesting guy that really tells interesting details and stories and ties it up in a strong and coherent show.
I personally find it interesting to know the 'original' background of anything in the warhammer world and see what the area really looks like in the real world.

 

[helemaalnicks]

I think a better alternative would be, to rebrand bretonnia as 'kingdoms', this will make the army more versatile, and more balanced, since models can be invented to represent the city states around bretonnia.

It would also give GW more oppurtunities to make a unique army. As it is right now, all bretonnia has on the empire is the silly wardsave and better wizards.

 

[Borgnine]

Really? you would think this is great? We clearly do not share the same opinion on that matter :O

Relax My post was sarcastic - I hoped that the three dots would somehow signify this, but I guess sarcasm doesn't really go very well through the cable

I am collecting Bretonnians since they were one of the most formidable armies and I would also be very dissapointed should they merge with the empire or even worse, with the wood elves. I love the minis and I love painting them, but I also know that they are not the most 'marketable' faction as of now and I understand that GW has a problem with them. I hope that designers will somehow manage to turn Bretonnia into something modern and capable of gaining some popularity and I think that the merging will be a loss for both Bretonnia and Empire, but I still prefer that to scrapping them altogether. This at least shows some possibility for new models, rules be damned - I could always play on old rules or just collect them - but that's just my opinion

And I somehow agree with helemaalnicks - that would be kinda interesting and bring Dogs of War back, but that would also dillute Brets and make them less themed than they are now. GW is in a tough spot right now - no matter what they do, somebody is going to be mad because of one thing or the other

EDIT: Oh, presumably GW just adopted a new system where a thing that's currently unavailable in one region will disappear from the store and it'll be back when it's restocked....

 

[helemaalnicks]

And I somehow agree with helemaalnicks - that would be kinda interesting and bring Dogs of War back, but that would also dillute Brets and make them less themed than they are now. GW is in a tough spot right now - no matter what they do, somebody is going to be mad because of one thing or the other

Well, I have the bretonnian book, and over 40 knights, and to me, the book seems vapid and empty right now. I can totally see all the units in the book go to the core and special sections, and put the mercs in the rare section.

You can take grail knights as a rare choice right now, but really, it doesn't make much difference, you might as well use only core units.

 

[Borgnine]

Well, right now Bretonnians are going down the 'arthurian legends, chivalry and dirty peasants' road - designers should make that theme stronger, some etheral units maybe, something mystical, something to capitalize on the theme. In my opinion adding mercs to it would weaken the theme and make it really more like 'The Peoples' - that army may have a good set of units and versitality, but it won't stand out. Many people play warhammer because the armies are strongly themed - and brets should pronounce their knights and mysticism and be one of a kind, not an army taken straight from a historical wargame - they are pretty normal as it is and it works for them to some extrent, but they should not go overboard with that.

Adding units and making them more varied and not:

2xknights with lances
1xknights with swords
1xfancy knights with lances

is the way to go. Giving them versitality in combat, but not by adding yet another normal humans in several variations.

 

[Lord Elpus]

One of the biggest problems with Brets is that you can't really have anything big an monstrous with them, as usually the knights kill them instead of riding them, unless they are Slannesh Brets then it's the other way around!erv:

More knights on foot, warmachines, a Lady of the lake character in the form of a loremaster/mistress. Give Brets their OWN magic. Maybe a unit revolving around the Round table, so taking a Gawain type would increase your virtue and stop peasants running, or Lancelot would increase battle prowess in other knights around him..

Just ideas.