So what do you think of the new book?

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What do you think of the new book?


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    306
I think it's a good book in many ways. It makes alot f our choices viable again and thus we are no longer forced to use the same list over and over as we only have 2 or 3 that work. I can now see a multitude of lists that seem really nice.

Our new lore seems very nice too imo and even tough some spells were nefred a bit I still feel that all our spells are very good which is rare. I usually find one or two spells in any given lore that I really have no use for. Also our casting values are pretty nice.

The one thing that I find is really poor is of course the magic item choices. They are just too few.
But that is of course the same for every 8th ed army but it still sucks. Even if it was done to try to balance the armies I feel that it is a really stupid move. Balance should not come at the cost of diversity...
 
I dislike the barebones baclground GW is going with at the moment. I've mostly been a 40k player but I've been gaming for nearly 20 years now so I've seen the rich background that VC collected over the years and I've collected the VC books for that reason. Hell I can remember when Nagash was a character model!

I bemoan the loss of the specific bloodline rules but in a way it's a good thing. The bloodlines where becoming too set in stone like clans from White Wolve's WoD. Warhammer's vampire blodlines are meant to be affiliations rather thanhard-coded genetics. Necraarchs are good at magic traditionaly because their founder was a bookworm and they tend to recruit from necromancers and fallen mages. Blood Dragons are honour bound warriors because that's the kind of personality they choose to give the blood kiss to, etc.

VC has so much choice now, we can build ethereal hosts, cavalry armies, infantry hordes, Stirgoi monster mashes and everything inbetween.

All in all i think this is a great book.
 
Whilst the new book is ok there is a lot that I am disappointed with first of all is the background it is pretty exactly the same as the previous book with a few new bits (like the massacre of the Dwarf and Elves by Mannfred), I thought there would of been more info focusing on the other Bloodlines than the Von Carsteins also I was hoping for special characters for the other Blood lines especially since they released that Red Duke book as well as the Neferata book that is going to be out next year. I am disappointed with the decrease of magic items available to us especially the Drakenhof Banner which I will miss the most, finally I know it sounds silly but I really wanted some type of undead war machine like a catapult or something.
 
Count michael said:
finally I know it sounds silly but I really wanted some type of undead war machine like a catapult or something.

That was never going to happen though. Those unit types have been part of the Tomb Kings list ever since the division of the original Undead book, so to sound disappointed about such a construct not being part of the current book is a bit odd in my opinion.

Back to commenting, I forgot to comment on magic items in my earlier post. I actually like the fact that these have been reduced in number, and there are still some very useful items in the new book, so this doesn't concern me.
 
i feel so bad that i was out of the game for so long... babies tend to take hobby time away. But, no more! i am back and leaving to pick up the book within the hour. after reading all the reviews i am very hopefull of what i might find :)
 
depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking to curb stomp enemies with very little they could even hope to do about it like in the heyday of 7th edition, that's not what you'll find. Too many of our tricks have been lost, without much to compensate for the hammering the undead ruleset took at the hands of the 8th ed core rules.

But if you're looking for a workable army with way more functional variety than we've had in years, this book delivers. I don't think there are any units, aside from the black coach, that I haven't tried yet, and every one of them I look forward to running again.
 
I am loving the new book compared to the old. Alot of the old bloods in my gaming club are complaining about loosing all the magic items... But they only ran a handful anyway so I do not see what the big deal is :lol: . I for one think this book as more of a learning curve than the last one but is stronger once you get a hang of it
 
Its allot less competitive than the last edition rule book.
There is nothing really to make a huge tourney army with and we have really dropped in tier because of it.

Vampire Counts at Throne of Skulls UK just gone, Dead Last and lowest average of all armies, wood elves and brets included.
 
I think the new book is really good. I like that there are plenty of new units which gives more variety for customising army types.

I dislike the removal of army specific magic items and vampire powers as it takes away choice and customizability. I think every army taking the same items from the BRB is kind of boring, much prefer army specific items.

Also some points costs now seem a bit off e.g. coven throne is great but too expensive to use in games under 3000 points without making sacrifices in other areas like lords abilities or items.

Overall quite happy with the book though.
 
Like most of it but feel we shoulda got some sorta vamp core choice. Even my NG are better then these core choices, I mean point for point. 10 pts for ghouls?! I do like the pts cost for the other choices tho. The zombies are way better and worth taking now. A vampire unit set up like most other armies would have been perfect- WS4 BS4 ST4 T4 W1 I5 A2 LD6 or maybe werewolves. Oh well, I am still having a good time.
 
as a new VC player i have only one dissapointment. That you cant take zombie dragon as rare choice only terrorgheist, seems unfair. But still like the new book :)
 
I was hoping for a Grim Reaper type Special choice other then Wraiths......or hell cheaper wraiths to stack in a horde would of been nice too...... Also we get no Carmine Dragon! I mean come on its a Dark Evil Magic Dragon............
 
Having played a few dozen games (friendly only) with this book, I have to say I find it entertaining. It's my first warhammer army and my first book, so I don't have much perspective, but I have to say:

I have trouble making an army not dependent on the magic phase or able to exert some control over this phase s that the dependency doesn't matter. Perhaps I'm playing incorrectly, or building poor lists, but if I roll poorly for magic, I'm sunk, and I find that frustrating
 
Noobafrass said:
Having played a few dozen games (friendly only) with this book, I have to say I find it entertaining. It's my first warhammer army and my first book, so I don't have much perspective, but I have to say:

I have trouble making an army not dependent on the magic phase or able to exert some control over this phase s that the dependency doesn't matter. Perhaps I'm playing incorrectly, or building poor lists, but if I roll poorly for magic, I'm sunk, and I find that frustrating

The vampire books always count on magic since are troops are rather easy to squish. The only downside we really have is that its rather hard to make units march unless you have your General around or a vampire in the unit which adds up pretty damn fast point wise.
 
I'm less bothered by the marching, as it can be remedied with tactics.

Being reliant on the magic phase, but being unable to exert any form of control over it's inherent unreliability, bugs me much more since it can't really be fixed with strategy (at least that I've found)
 
Noobafrass said:
I'm less bothered by the marching, as it can be remedied with tactics.

Being reliant on the magic phase, but being unable to exert any form of control over it's inherent unreliability, bugs me much more since it can't really be fixed with strategy (at least that I've found)

Well you do have a point....one bad magic phase can (and has cost me) the game.......... Anyone figure out tactics around this other then taking lots of level 1's and praying?
 
The key to having a reliable offensive magic phase is A) the ability to keep casting important spells (by guaranteeing access to key spells, being able to recast any particular spells that you need, and having enough important spells to use up all your dice) and B) having the dice you need to cast your spells - which should be measured as dice or other casting value bonuses you have above your opponent's dispel dice and bonuses.

In terms of spell access, we're alright. Gaze is the only meh spell on our native list, the lore bonus is ideal, and the signature spell is our key spell, so we can spam it with multiple casters. Lack of Loremaster outside of special characters hurts, though, when you get to a high enough points value that you start running out of spells to roll.

MotBA helps a little with dice, but it's still very unreliable. If your original roll included two numbers that were about even it doesn't do much for you. It only really helps in the case that you rolled one high and one low, and even then it's only a chance of helping. The high points cost would be acceptable if the benefit was reliable. I'd gladly drop 75 points for the old +2 dice each magic phase (guaranteed dice that your opponent doesn't get = the whole thing we want here). As it is, it's very costly, and still leaves you with a very fickle phase.

The pariapt helps as well, and its reliability makes it more attractive than MotBA, but at the cost of hurting our magic defense. Alternatively, it can help our defense at the cost of our offense. Problem is, we're pretty vulnerable to enemy magic, and we rely on our own magic to support our troops in their basic battlefield rolls, so neither trade is particularly attractive.

The Mortis Engine is a tricky beast. The tome upgrade is especially potent with multiple low level casters, which is exactly what our kick ass signature spell encourages, but it's pretty much the only tool of its kind to come with its own disadvantage, one that can easily cost us the game if our general miscasts, or if an ogre pops the hellheart. The rest of the engine is quirky. Not bad, certainly, but not amazing. Worth its hefty price tag, I'd say, but difficult to justify over the alternatives, particulalry the gheist.

Other tools are worth looking at, but are available to anybody so I'll skip them here.

In all, I wouldn't say we have a weak magic phase. But our magic phase isn't strong enough to justify our reliance on it. Without vanhels or vigor, ghouls and grave guard aren't so great fighters. Without invocation, skeletons and zombies are terrible tar pits. An enemy that can shut down our magic phase doesn't have too much else they really have to worry about (killer vampires, ethereals, and screams being the notable exceptions). Likewise, we are pretty vulnerable to enemy magic ourselves - snipe our heroes and our army falls apart, blast away with dwellers or purple sun and watch masses of low init models collapse, buff up your units with speed of light or wild form and reap double the carnage thanks to instability, etc. Since high magical offense and high magical defense tend to go hand in hand, strong enemy magic exists as a significant and glaring weak point for the counts. I've had a lot of trouble as a result with lizard men and magic heavy high elf armies.

Since there's only so much extra magic oomph we have access to, the answer seems to be going in the other direction - looking for options that are less dependent on magic. Killer melee vamp lord builds. fearbombs. screamspam. heavy ethereal. black knight death stars. etc. None of these are especially overwhelming, either, but at least we have a lot of things we can try apart from the usual magic supported infantry horde. Again, good internal balance and lots of functional variety means there's a lot to keep us busy and engaged, even if we still have some notable and stubborn overall weaknesses (magic heavy and artillery heavy lists being the two big ones off the top of my head).
 
I concur,be sure to bring more than one caster with ION..I played a battle royale yesterday against Skaven and HE, and the damn HE player sigil of asuryaned-(sp?) my MN's ION on first turn..he had lord of the dead..it blew.
I still won anyway,due to holding objectives with single bases of spirit hosts,but my magic phase was crippled.
 
Very good summary, Malisteen. That entire post should be stickied somewhere. You also deserve a jar of cookies.
I do feel, however, that MotBA is a decent buy the majority of the time. I will only use the reroll if one of my dice is a 3 or lower. With the average on 2 dice being a 7, I tend to end up using it more often than not and I only come up short (getting a lower result on the reroll) once every 2 games or so.
 
Pladvoncarstein said:
Voltaire said:
What will beat us is as simple as it has always been - a better tactician.

Im afriad a better tactition will still struggle. Theres no way around an always strike first vamp riding a ghostly chariot with 2 strong hand maidens, that you cannot shoot or strike at without a chance of attacking yourself or haveing you skills dropped. This would not be so bad if it didnt combine with aura of dark majesty or any other leadership droppers.

Say hallo to dwarf artillery with runes.:-)
 
Scottnissen said:
Pladvoncarstein said:
Voltaire said:
What will beat us is as simple as it has always been - a better tactician.

Im afriad a better tactition will still struggle. Theres no way around an always strike first vamp riding a ghostly chariot with 2 strong hand maidens, that you cannot shoot or strike at without a chance of attacking yourself or haveing you skills dropped. This would not be so bad if it didnt combine with aura of dark majesty or any other leadership droppers.

Say hallo to dwarf artillery with runes.:-)
Also, battle of wills will help in combat, but not against shooting. And prepare to get annihilated by cannons against some armies
 

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