Sunny's challenge

[Psiosis]

Ok Sunny, new type of challenge for you if you are interested.

I am working on a BK bus list at the moment and am pretty happy with how it is shaping up. My characters however are not looking so great. The army is being built for 2000 and 2500 points.

If you are up for a more “in depth” challenge I would like you to build a character list for my army.
500/625 points of lords (mounted)
and
500/625 points of heroes (mounted or on foot as you see fit)

The two lists are very similar involving:
10+ BK
1-2 terrorgheists
1-2 spirit host
2x5 dogs
2-3 x 20 zeds
30+ ghouls

I don’t know if you have had a challenge like this before to kit out characters, but if it is something you are interested in feel free to give it a try.

BONUS POINTS for including a death lore caster to use that juicy LD10 vampire lord

 

[The Sun King]

Psiosis Characters:

LORDS
625 Points:
Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Potion of Foolhardiness, Level 4 Wizard LoV
= 535 pts

500 Points:
Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Level 3 Wizard LoV, Potion of Foolhardiness
= 500 pts

HEROES
625 Points:
Vampire: Red Fury, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Lance, Shield, DS
Vampire: Red Fury, Nightshroud, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield. Barded Nightmare
Wight King: Obsidian Amulet, Skeletal Steed, Barding, Shield, Lance
= 589 points

500 Points:
Vampire: Red Fury, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Lance, Shield
Vampire: Red Fury, Nightshroud, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield. Barded Nightmare
Necromancer: Nightmare, Level 1 Death
= 500 points

 

[Nightreaver]

Nightreavers MSU list
Okay this list is probably the weirdest list I've ever made, but here goes:

LORD
Heinrich Kemmler

HERO
Necromancer: Dispel Scroll

CORE
15 Skeleton Warriors: FC, Banner of Swiftness
15 Skeleton Warriors: FC
15 Skeleton Warriors: FC
14 Skeleton Warriors: FC
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf
5 Dire Wolves: Doom Wolf

SPECIAL
6 Vargheists: Vargoyle
6 Vargheists: Vargoyle
6 Vargheists: Vargoyle
7 Hexwraiths: Champ

RARE
Varghulf
Varghulf
Total Army Points: 2498pts

Okay so the idea is to fly Kemmler around using his Master of the Dead to get the Skels to 30 each while the DW keep the enemies occupied. All this is a smoke screen for the hardhitting Vargs, Varghulfs and HW which should outmaneuver the enemy easily. Could be a real fun list to play, a shame that no one will Also there is 15 drops in total in this army so outdeploying the enemy should be easy as well.

Hehe, really nice. I was thinking along a different route though:

VL
level 3, shield, heavy armour, ogre blade, talisman of preservation, dragonhelm, potion of foolhardiness, red fury, quickblood, abyssal terror with upgrades

V
level 2 (death), shield, lance, armour of destiny, hellsteed, quickblood

WK
shield, barded steed, gold sigil sword, enchanted shield, potion of strength, dragonbane gem

Nec
level 2, dispel scroll, ruby ring of ruin, master of the dead

15 Skeleton Warriors
full command, banner of swiftness

15 Crypt Ghouls
ghast

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

5 Dire Wolves
doom wolf

7 Hexwraiths
hellwraith

5 Black Knights
full command, barding, lances

3 Vargheists

3 Vargheists

Lots of small stuff flying around and dishing damage, lots of fast moving units for flank charges and what not. Necro with skellies protecting the rear with ghouls as support chargers if need arises (to deal with annoying scouts and such). Also 15 drops for deployment purposes

 

[The Sun King]

You don't have enough stuff that can cause damage. 3 Vargs die to a mild breeze and with 5 BK's your characters get not Look out Sir roll. Also there is too many DW, I don't think you'll get to use them effectively when you have so many. I like the abyssal terror lord though, a bit risky though.

 

[Psiosis]

Psiosis Characters:

LORDS
625 Points:
Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Potion of Foolhardiness, Level 4 Wizard LoV
= 535 pts

500 Points:
Vampire Lord: Talisman of Preservation, Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, Enchanted Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Level 3 Wizard LoV, Potion of Foolhardiness
= 500 pts

HEROES
625 Points:
Vampire: Red Fury, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Lance, Shield, DS
Vampire: Red Fury, Nightshroud, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield. Barded Nightmare
Wight King: Obsidian Amulet, Skeletal Steed, Barding, Shield, Lance
= 589 points

500 Points:
Vampire: Red Fury, Dragonhelm, Heavy Armour, Barded Nightmare, Lance, Shield
Vampire: Red Fury, Nightshroud, Lance, Heavy Armour, Shield. Barded Nightmare
Necromancer: Nightmare, Level 1 Death
= 500 points

Thank you for the characters Sunny. Just curious about the lords... are you able to run both Talisman of Preservation and Dragonbane Gem? I always thought it was only one or the other.

If you are able to run both then great looking setup, if not would you just drop Dragonbane Gem from both 625 and 500 lords?

Also, on another side note do you think it is work having a BSB in a bk bus?

 

[Nightreaver]

You don't have enough stuff that can cause damage. 3 Vargs die to a mild breeze and with 5 BK's your characters get not Look out Sir roll. Also there is too many DW, I don't think you'll get to use them effectively when you have so many. I like the abyssal terror lord though, a bit risky though.

Well, the Dark Elves and Wood Elves seem to be adapting air force tactics which can be seen on their forums, utilising multiple lords and heroes on pegasi/eagles with a lot of success. I don't see a reason why it wouldn't work for vamps on terros, which are way more durable than lesser fliers and dish out a lot more damage.

 

[The Sun King]

Because when your VL dies(which he will when he rides a giant bull's eye) your whole army crumbles... the Elves don't have that rule

 

[Astorre]

Hello I am playtesting to make the most competitive 2.5k tourny army (no comp) using no easy cannon targets (monsters, chariots, ect., lot of Dwarves, Empire, Ogres round here). Been trying to use Death Magic with LD 10 Soul Leeches and Hexwraiths in place of Terrorgheist screams, but have only had one game so far. Whats the best TAC list you could come up with in a heavy shooting, no comp meta where you see pretty much every army but Wood Elves?

 

[The Sun King]

Sounds pretty much like my own meta so I would suggest my League list, unless you don't want to use MEs?

 

[Shifter]

Hi Sunny! I really like your Thread. I took alot of Information from this Thread, but I still loose alot of times. I want you to write me the strongest list for 1000 points and, if it could be possible, for 1500 too because most players in our GW are playing this point range.

I'll write you what models I have. But don't hold your horses back to put some other miniatures into the lists. I would even buy a complete new army of VC if I had too

1x Necromancer
2x Vampirelords
1x Vampirelord (mounted)

20x Ghouls
40x Skeletons
40x Zombies
20x Direwolves

1x Corpsecart
10x Hexwraiths (10x Black Knights next Week)

1x Terrorgheist

These are the models I have. But as stated, you can add other choices as well. I think I lack of Banshee's and Cairns Wraiths maybe... However, I want the possibly best list around thes points, I am tired of loosing.
I hope you can help me with these two lists!
Shifter

 

[The Sun King]

Hi Shifter and welcome to the forum, it is always nice with new faces! Really glad you like the thread, hopefully I can continue to help you Don't worry about losing most games when you start out - VC is a rock solid army and with time and practice you'll be able to beat the best of em'!

1000 pts List

LORD
Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation, Level 4 Wizard LoV

CORE
24 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
7 Crypt Horrors

RARE
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 998pts

This list is outright nasty. There is so little that can deal with a TG at 1k that most armies will just melt away when it hits the board. And 7 CH getting healed by a level 4 MN? No way that they will die Use the Zombs as a bunker for the MN and deploy the DW in dart formation and use them as cheap drops and chaff. It's a good idea to put the DW on the board first that way you can see where he puts his important units before you start comitting your own troops.

1500 points list

LORD
Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation, Level 4 Wizard LoV

CORE
38 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast
23 Zombies: Banner

SPECIAL
7 Crypt Horrors
10 Hexwraiths

RARE
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 1500pts

This list is very much like the first one but packs more of a punch with a Ghoul horde and 10 HW... these lists should put fear in the hearts of your enemies Please comment when you've tried them out

 

[Shifter]

Hi Shifter and welcome to the forum, it is always nice with new faces! Really glad you like the thread, hopefully I can continue to help you Don't worry about losing most games when you start out - VC is a rock solid army and with time and practice you'll be able to beat the best of em'!

1000 pts List

LORD
Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation, Level 4 Wizard LoV

CORE
24 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
7 Crypt Horrors

RARE
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 998pts

This list is outright nasty. There is so little that can deal with a TG at 1k that most armies will just melt away when it hits the board. And 7 CH getting healed by a level 4 MN? No way that they will die Use the Zombs as a bunker for the MN and deploy the DW in dart formation and use them as cheap drops and chaff. It's a good idea to put the DW on the board first that way you can see where he puts his important units before you start comitting your own troops.

1500 points list

LORD
Master Necromancer: Talisman of Preservation, Level 4 Wizard LoV

CORE
38 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast
23 Zombies: Banner

SPECIAL
7 Crypt Horrors
10 Hexwraiths

RARE
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 1500pts

This list is very much like the first one but packs more of a punch with a Ghoul horde and 10 HW... these lists should put fear in the hearts of your enemies Please comment when you've tried them out

Thanks for the quick answer!

Well, the 1000 Points are the point range, where I see the problems. Most people know I use a lvl 4 Necro and my Terrorgheist and are going to hardcounter them. Skavenplayer shoots him with his Warplighting Cannon, Dwarfs just shut down my magic Phase and kill everything before I get there, Bretons almost the same but Cavallary punish me away. Lost against a Nightgoblin army, which had 150 nightgoblins + Fanatics and Spearchakkas and Mangler Squig. And Khemriplayer here manages to pull of the Sepulchral Stalkers right in front of my Terrorgeist first round and stare him to death. I don't know if the Crypthorros will really change that ;/ But they were on my Buy-List anyway.

Hope you can get some information out of this and give some advices.
Shifter

 

[The Sun King]

There is a good chance that the Warplightning cannon either explodes or gets 2 or 4 in strength which is not that frightening to a terrorgheist. Anyways, some ideas on how to protect your TG:

1. Be patient and figure out the enemies ranges - if he has something nasty with limited range, stay out of it's way.
2. Put your TG right behind your CH. Mounstrous Infantry stop cannonballs.
3. Place the TG sideways when you deploy it, that way you can pivot it for free(because it's a single model) and gain 2" for free. That combined with it's 8" scream means that you can effectively reach stuff that's 30" away = almost everything.
4. Keep your TG within 12" of your MN to benefit from IoN(and the lore attribute).
4. Send everything you got(including gaze of nagash) after stuff that threatens your TG. If you can get a charge on the enemy's cannon with your DW - fantastic!

Hope this helps.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Those are really good lists, Sunny. Nice one. Those should do the trick, Shifter. And not a Spirit Host in sight. That was a hard trick to pull off. Do you worry the infantry General will have trouble keeping those Hexies in Marching distance?

 

[Psiosis]

3. Place the TG sideways when you deploy it, that way you can pivot it for free(because it's a single model) and gain 2" for free. That combined with it's 8" scream means that you can effectively reach stuff that's 30" away = almost everything.

Hey Sunny, (any everyone else for that matter)

regarding your 3rd piece of advice how are you getting a range of 30" ?

Scream of 8 and pivot of 2 is 10. That I get.

Movement 6 (x2 for march) adds another 12 which puts the total to 24.

Can you march fly? (10x2)+scream+pivot = 30

If so can someone confirm this? I've been missing out on movement if that's the case T.T

 

[Nagashizzar]

You absolutely March fly

 

[The Sun King]

@Psiosis: Yep you can march fly(as long as you start within 12" of the general).

@Adam: Thanks dude! Glad you like it. I would usually hang the HW back to chill within 12" of the general untill a opportunity presents itself, at 1500 points the anti-ethereal magic should be pretty easy to counter with a level 4 so you have more time to set up a good charge or ride-by attack with the HW than you do in 2500 games.

 

[Shifter]

Hi Sunny!

I tried your 1000 Points List yesterday. Here is how it went:

I played against Bretonnia.
Aaaand I lost. I dont know if 1 game really is reliable, since it went real badly for me. My Terrorgheist died in the first Round without even doing anything. His Breton Bowmen were just in the range and died 1 Wound of flaming damage to it, then his trebuchet hit 5 Wounds, no reg, DEAD. Well, then he just stomped me with his cavallary.

As stated I don't think one game will tell if this is a good list or not. I want to play again against him he's the best player at our local store (shop manager) and I want to see, if it was just unlucky for me. Any advice for the Trebuchet? This thing is so broken, I couldnt land a hit on hit because it was well protected and had a real good place, beyond a tower, because this thing needs no line of sight. If I flew with my TG near to it, he could have just hit me with it and the archers. even wih the 2" extra there was no way I could hit it with my TG or with anything else.

 

[The Sun King]

Hi Shifter, don't expect to win if you play for the first time against a veteran. Play against someone on your own level.

The treb is good against the TG because the TG has a big base. It makes a big difference if you get the first turn or not. If you do get the first turn get your TG to scream at the Treb as fast as possible. If the TG survives the Treb(and you get rid of it) his knights are doomed. Not sure how his Cav killed your CH...?

 

[Shifter]

Second Game with this list:
Me vs Nightgoblins
Result: Loss

Almost the same as against Bretonnia. 3 Spear Chukkas managed to kill the TG of in the first round. I can't keep that thing alive, my opponents always focus that thing down in the first round. They were on higher ground, so the TG cannot get protected by the CH. The CH performed better this game, but got stuck in one of his 2 75 Nightgoblin units, and the second one break through my line of zombies in round 4 and managed to kill off the necro in his bunker behind it. There is no killing stuff after the TG is gone.

VS the bretonns, the CH were missplaced by me. They got charged by his Mounted Yeoman and got stuck there for two rounds and then my own army was in their way to get back into the fight. Anyway, he just could pull this of because the TG died first round. I don't see, how I can protect that thing enough not to get killed in the first or second round. I know that you already posted some ideas how to protect it and I tried to buuut same results.

Well, it was just the second game and I am gonna play some more this day and tomorrow and see how they go.
If you can get some ideas from these little reports feel free to share them with me

 

[The Sun King]

I can see you have as little luck with the TG as me. Wouldn't have expected people to bring that much artillery in so low points games though. Anyways against stuff like goblins I think that I would just charge the TG into them to keep it safe from shooting. Goblins shouldn't be able to do any real damage to the tg unless they get poison attacks in which case you should stay away from them

 

[Shifter]

I can see you have as little luck with the TG as me. Wouldn't have expected people to bring that much artillery in so low points games though. Anyways against stuff like goblins I think that I would just charge the TG into them to keep it safe from shooting. Goblins shouldn't be able to do any real damage to the tg unless they get poison attacks in which case you should stay away from them

Yeah. He still managed to scream away a Mangler Squig, but then died in my opponents first round. Maybe I will let him wait behind a piece of terrain or a tower and let him charge into something later. The Game itself was much better as against the bretonns but I lacked killing juice in the end.

Next game will probably be WoC, so there will be little artillery and he should perform better

 

[Godwrath]

Shifter, 1000 points, the paper rock scissors is way more accentuated because list building is really limited. In my games, i always try to get the TG behind terrain/towers until i really want him there and my opponent wants to kill him. It won't help against everything. Remember you never want your opponent to have an easy choice whenever he is shooting/using magic, that's why if i can't really jump in directly, i wait until i get many of my other units close enough. You won't have that choice always, and as you can see, your only warmachine hunter, is basically the TG.

What i found out at 1.000, is that the "spend the minimum in core" doesn't work, because at that point value is the only thing that undead can get on the right numbers to work. Ghouls backed by a lvl 4 necro at l000 points are crazily good at that point value. I use a unit of 50, one of 20 zombies, terrorgheist, and i don't use wolves at that point value. The TG is hidden for the most part, until the ghoul unit is a threat to his army or i can set it up where the opponent can't kill it.

It´s decent enough against static gunlines, very good against close combat armies, and suckballs against mobile armies which can set up good flanks. But that's how it works at that point value.

 

[The Sun King]

Finally! I've played the game against my Ogre nemesis and written a bat rep about it(as promised) - thanks for all the help. Check out the bat rep here, and please comment

Also all my games in the League is done, didn't lose a single one and I reign supreme on the top of the board

 

[Nightreaver]

I've got a challenge for you Sunny. How about a list (2.5k) without VL/SGK, CH, ME or TG (special characters are a no go too). You'll have to find some other sources of punching face