Sunny's challenge

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@Natalie: I think I would deploy them 5 wide, but 6 could go as well.
@Vipoid: Not really, I mean if there are no characters in the enemy's unit then it's probably not a threat(and if it is I've charged the wrong thing and shouldn't play VC :D ) and then having Giant Blade or Sword of Bloodshed is just "win more" which is a waste of points.
 
yuckfoo said:
Is it possible to take enough level one/two vamps in a mind razor list to guarantee rolling mind razor?

Any combination that ends up with a total of 6 wizard levels between them (so 3 Lv2s, 6 Lv1s etc.).

So long as none of them take the signature spell (until you've rolled mindrazor), you'll always get it.

Of course, since Miasma is awesome, it's a steep price to pay. ;)
 
Ya I know it's a 75 but I'm just wondering if that with the hero/lord point limit if you could afford 6 wizard levels to guarantee mind razor? I play 2500 and 3k games pretty often
 
yuckfoo said:
Ya I know it's a 75 but I'm just wondering if that with the hero/lord point limit if you could afford 6 wizard levels to guarantee mind razor? I play 2500 and 3k games pretty often

Well, you'd have to go light on gear, but you should be able to afford 3 vampires at 2500pts.
 
@ Yuckfoo: Here is a repost of the current list I'm running. This is a league list which means that I've tried to balance it against all armies.


Post: #242RE: Sunny's challenge
Hey Stuck! Thanks for the challenge, it gives me the chance to showcase the new list I'm using for the league my gaming group is starting in a week. Here goes:

Sunny's League List

LORDS:
Vampire Lord: Level 1 LoV, Heavy Armor, Shield, RF, Ogre Blade, Seed of Rebirth, Dragonhelm
Master Necromancer: Level 4 Death, Earthing Rod

HERO:
Necromancer: Level 1 LoV, DS

CORE:
20 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
36 Ghouls: Ghast

SPECIAL:
6 Vargheists
10 Crypt Horrors
1 Spirit Host
1 Spirit Host

RARE:
Mortis Engine
Mortis Engine

Total drops: 12
Total fortitude points: 6
Total points: 2500

The idea behind this army: I'm a control freak. I hate when things go bad because of a stupid dice roll. I've therefore tried to make a list that is as solid and all around as possible(after getting Count Mannfred sucked into the void first turn of my last tournament I'll never again leave home without Earthing Rod). We play all six scenarios in the BRB which means that I'll have to play Blood and Glory a couple of times, and that is why I have 4 units of Banner toting Zeds. This way, if the general dies I can march on and still not lose Blood and Glory. I've playtested alot of lists with double Terrorgheist for this league but I fail miserably at using them or my meta is just too artillery oriented for them to survive so I've dropped that idea and gone back to my Alma Mater: Dual Engines. The great thing about having double Engiens is that they always(in my experience) net you some positive effect. Even if they die and blow up they put more hurt on your enemy than on your own troops(two games in a row I blew up a Keeper of Secrets in turn 1 and 2... single models hate ME explosions). Also the obvious effect of having two engines is the 5+ Regen for the whole army. This added durability of my units is just what I need for my control freakish playstyle. Put 5+ regen against ASF Daemonette horde? No problem, the ghouls will rip those many-boobed-freaks apart.
Okay, so the main idea about this army is staying power, how then to kill stuff? Well against two nasty armies like Lizardmen and Ogres Purple Sun from the Lore of Death really comes in handy. Against most armies the death snipes are effective as well(many 8th edition armies rely on buffs from characters). But Lore of Death is not the only offensive capability in this army... 6 Vargheists in a flank is bad news for most units and with their fly and Vampiric special rules they'll get there in no time(the key word is patience... don't charge unless it's a fight you'll win). Oh yeah, and the VL melts face of course.

Formations:
Crypt Horrors: 5 Wide
Ghouls: 10 Wide
Zombies: 5 Wide
Vargheists: Variable (normally I would deploy them 3 wide because of easier movement)
Note: It's very important to be able to be flexible with your formations, most of the time you'll keep the formations like they were when you put them on the board, but don't get stuck with this or that idea. Be flexible. For instance if the Ghouls cannot avoid facing a very hardhitting enemy that is better than them - reform them 5 wide to prevent casualties and stick around untill your can get reinforcements. A rule of thumb is: Is the enemy unit better at fighting than you? Then go 5 wide. Is the enemy unit weaker at fighting than you? Then go wider than him(horde if your have the numbers for it).

Tips for the movement phase:
1. Use your SH as redirectors - you want them to hold up stuff like monsters and MC - if you do, it's your lucky day
2. Keep your fighting units within range of your ME's so you'll have the 5+ regen at all times.
3. Try to close in on your enemy as fast as possible so that when he shoots your ME's down he'll get the explosions in his face as well.
4. Use the Zombies as bunkers, I usually run mine behind the line, but a couple on the flanks is fine as well.
5. Try to figure out when to move the unit containing your VL. Units within 12" of him can still march so sometimes you want him to stay put in the beginning of your phase so the units farthest behind can march, then move the VL and the units at the front can also march... if you get my meaning?
6. Be patient with your Vargheists. The reason I have 6 in a single unit is so that they can take a beating from shooting and magic and still be around. This gives them the time they need to set up a juicy charge. Hint: Get the enemy in his flanks. It is almost always a bad idea to charge a unit of Vargs into the front of something UNLESS you are suiciding them into his Wizard bunker and killing his general.

Deployment:
SH ZZZZZ GGGGGGGGGG CHCHCHCHCH ZZZZZ SH

ZZZZZ ME ME ZZZZZ VVV​
This is something close to what I usually do if you get a standard scenario. If you have some sort of random deployment scenario like Meeting Engagement or Dawn Attack, try to get as many units as possible within your VL's marching bubble and keep the ME's with the main force. This army is very weak if it gets seperated. Strength in numbers (and regen ). Actually more often than not I have the ME's on the front line as well in the middle.
 
I find it a struggle to scale up my Mind Razor list due to increased magical defense and a decrease in power dice production.

Also sunny dont you worry about killing blow on your vampire lord?
 
I challenge you to make an anti DoC list that can handle a bloodthirster, 2 cannons, and beasts of nurgle.
 
Hi Sunny, thanks for starting this very useful thread, and for all the helpful list building advice/tactics you're giving. I hope this is a relatively simple challenge in comparison to what's come before! Just a few restrictions:

2500 pts

1) General MUST be a Vampire/Lord or a Necromancer/Lord (Cannot be a SGK)
2) Must include at least 1 unit of Skeleton Warriors
3) Must include at least 1 unit of Grave Guard and/or Black Knights (Ideally would like both, but I realise that unless I'm going to high levels of points, having both will be tough. If that is the case, choose whatever complements that around it.)
4) Must include at least 1 unit of Vargheists and/or Crypt Horrors.
5) Must include at least 1 Terrorgheist.

Aside from these, you are free to fill the points with whatever you wish. If you're struggling and having to cut a lot of fat, you can bump it up to 3000 points (me and a few friends are trying to decide a set points value for a tournament we're having soon, so nothing to set in stone yet - the above restrictions are models included for fluff reasons).

Thanks again! :)
 
@Yuckfoo, what do you mean by current Meta? I suppose I always make lists for the current uncomped Meat, but I'm not quite sure what you're getting at? :)

@Johnny: Funny you should say that, in my last league match I was up against DoC and ran my Vampire Lady into a unit of Bloodletters, suffice to say she didn't survive. I'm not quite sure why I did it though, I suppose I thought it was an opportune moment to charge, but in fact I should never have brought her into a killingblowing unit. Still won 13-7 though. I guess you should just keep the VL out of combat with things that have Killing Blow... haven't been a problem for me before.

@BigAl: I'm shooting the first scene for my next short film on saturday so I'm pretty stressed out at the moment, so I'll probably first get around to making the list in a week or so.

@Generation_Terrorist: You're welcome dude. Also see above about my schedule :)
 
Sunny, I challenge you to make the best 1k tournament list out of the following:
40 GG
60 zombies (have more that I can convert)
1 Mortis engine
10 dogs
40skellies
2 vampires
1 necro
2 varghulfs
3 spirit hosts
2 cairn wraiths
1 banchee
1 corpse cart
 
Well, Johnny took care of my first request by saying that mind razor lists do not scale up well past 2.5k so I guess the 1 k list challenge first :)
 
Here's the comp challenge part: 2400 points, 450pts max non character unit cost, 0-3 flying units, 0-3 ethereal, 0-3 red fury and quickblood in entire army, max 30 GG, max 12 black knights. Remember go for anti demons (with a bloodthirster, big units of beasts and a cannon) that is well rounded (can also fight 1+ armor empire knight army, and new high elves)
 
The Sun King said:
Glad I can help sparking ideas!

Ok i'm back... 4 month later but hey, I got my idea :tongue:

I want a different army list.. something people as not used to fight against!

I would like to go attrition happy and with a legion theme (aka big block of undeads!) ... and witouth any vampire or vampiric units! :slapface:

Pick in this please:

Lord
Heinrich Kemmler
Master Necromancer (up to 4, including hero level Necromancers)

Heroes
Krell, Lord of the Undeath
Necromancer (up to 4, including Master Necromancers)
Wight King (up to 2)
Wight King BSB
Cairn Wraith (up to 5)

Core:
Skeletons with spears (up to 40)
Skeletons with HW & Shield (up to 60)
Zombies (up to 100)
Crypt Ghouls (up to 50)
Dire Wolves (up to 10)

Specials:
Corpse Cart (up to 5)
Grave Guards (up to 40)
Black Knight (up to 10, if possible without, I would like!)
Spirit Host (up to 3)
Hexwraith (up to 5)

Rare
Mortis Engine (up to 2)

This is to participe in a big tournament (around 50-60 players) next march so I need to start painting quickly :|xD
 
@ BigAl: this list should give the Bloodthirster a run for his money: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Manny-and-his-Dual-Engines-3000-pts?highlight=Manny

Generation Terrorist's List
This army maybe lack some drops, but it makes up for it in combat what it lacks in movement.

LORDS
Vampire Lord: Ogre Blade, Red Fury, Quickblood, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Preservation, Heavy Armour
Master Necromancer: Earthing Rod(You can switch this for a DS), Level 4 Wizard Death

CORE
34 Skeleton Warriors: FC, Banner of Swiftness
40 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast

SPECIAL
35 Grave Guard: FC, Great Weapons, Banner of the Barrows
8 Crypt Horrors

RARE
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 2500pts

Yuckfoo's 1k List
Okay this list is not the best 1k list out there, but it should be fairly good at casual play and has some interesting dynamics. The killing power in this list is your ethereals and the Varghulf. Ethereals are often good at 1k levels because the opponent don't have much to deal with them. This means that 1 wraith with a lucky charge can hold up a unit for the whole game or maybe even kill it. The Banshee scream is also pretty important. And remember your damage spells in LoV they can really become important with a list like this. You can either put the MN in the Zombie bunker or you can put him in with the Skels and put 2 ethereal characters in there as well then he can hide safely in second rank.

LORD
Master Necromancer: Dispel Scroll, Level 4 Wizard LoV

HEROES
Tomb Banshee
Cairn Wraith
Cairn Wraith

CORE
40 Skeleton Warriors: FC, Banner of Swiftness
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
20 Zombies

RARE
Varghulf
Total Army Points: 1000pts


Adam's Flying Circus List
Okay this might not be the most competetive list, but I think it's a lot of fun!

LORD
Vampire Lord: Red Fury, Talisman of Preservation, Charmed Shield, Dispel Scroll, Zombie Dragon, Heavy Armour, Lance, Level 1 LoV

HEROES
Vampire: Flying Horror, Enchanted Shield, Sword of Anti-Heroes, Heavy Armour, Level 1 LoV
Vampire: Dragonhelm, Fencer's Blade, Flying Horror, Heavy Armour, Level 1 LoV

CORE
40 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast
32 Zombies
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves
5 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
5 Vargheists
5 Vargheists

RARE
Terrorgheist
Terrorgheist
Total Army Points: 2500pts

Nagashizzar's Kemmler List
Again, a funny but subpar list. This list's strength is its insane magic. Kemmler runs around with +6 to cast, +5 to dispel and is loremaster. Oh yeah and he is Ethereal - still, keep him next to Krell in the GG unit as a bodyguard. Oh did I mention you also have a level 4 Deathromancer? Yeah, bad news for your opponents. Still this list has some big weaknesses: only 2 combat blocks(which I consider at least 1 too few). On the up side the GG can take down heavy armoy with impunity when the Ghouls poison attacks doesn't cut it.

LORDS
Heinrich Kemmler
Master Necromancer: Dispel Scroll, Level 4 Death

HEROES
Krell, Lord of Undeath
Cairn Wraith

CORE
39 Crypt Ghouls: Crypt Ghast
21 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
20 Zombies: Banner
5 Dire Wolves

SPECIAL
40 Grave Guard: FC, Great Weapons, Banner of the Barrows

RARE
Mortis Engine
Mortis Engine: Blasphemous Tome
Total Army Points: 2498pts
 

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