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The end of The End Times. [MASSIVE SPOILERS!]

El Syf

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#26
Well having had time to absorb the news I say credit to GW for having the balls to do this. Maybe they got fed up of all the moaning on the internet and decided to give everyone something to actually moan about.
I feel bad for characters like Abhorash (hasn't featured at all) and Gilles who GW couldn't even be bothered with.
9th ed better be good and now I don't know if it's worth buying Nagash and some more morghasts...
 

Malisteen

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#27
Well, on the one hand, limited model run minis were part of the 9e rumors, so its entirely possible that the endtimes stuff was produced with no intention of carrying forward. On the other hand, if that's what they were doing, why no limited run elf releases for khaine? The alternative is that the end times releases actually are 9e releases in disguise. Supporting this is the fact that all end times releases have been for rumored 9e factions (chaos, undead, skaven), and that they all have a slightly different style, in particular most of the end times releases seem to be in a larger scale - chaos infantry bigger than previous infantry, undead and skaven monstrous infantry bigger than previous mknstrous infantry, mounted chaos and undead heroes seemingly at the larger infantry scale like the chaos models (seriously, try to imagine one of the new mortarchs standing on a 20mm). Then again, the skaven characters aren't appreciably larger, so... *shrug*

It's still unclear what happens to nagash and the mortarchs at thr end. Some rumors have Neferata killed by Khalida, but thats not confirmed. Others had Nagash killed by settra, but that looks to be pure speculation at this point. Manny seems to betray them at the end, dooming the world, so its hard to imagine him on the same team as the rest un a post-end-times universe.

If I were a betting man, I'd say the morghasts will stick around for the 9e undead faction, whatever it ends up looking like, but all of the characters will be gone. Again, though, that's just speculation on my part. We'll hear more by friday, at the latest, as I and others will be getting the book then.


EDIT: scratch that. The mortarchs all die, Nagash fades away with the winds of magic. I'm doubling down on my 'yes morghasts, no characters' prediction
 
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Adam_Barrow

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#28
The DE Khainite releases were slotted for their ET book, but got pushed forward for the DE book. Don't ask me source, it's been months since that warseer thread was open, but one of those Got Stuff Right guys posted it.
 

Shareya

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#29
If Neferata is butchered then I am going to end up ignoring End Times for good in all my roleplaying sessions :(

Granted no one is even trying to put up any scenarios with the new fluff.
 

Malisteen

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#31
Actually, apparently the novelization goes into much greater detail, and the undead get some considerably better payoffs, including:

Vlad is some sort of noble badass, inspiring people and earning respect left and right, and goes down in a noble self sacrifice which frees isabella from daemonic control

Abhorash appears, and chooses to go down fighting with the Brettonians

Arkhan has some plan for preserving himself beyond the worlds end, Neferata doesn't make it back in time? I haven't heard if Arkhan's end is concrete or not, he may survive. Apparantly he and Nagash get a moment of some kind.

etc.

If you're not looking for rules, the novel version may be the version of this story you want as an undead player.
 
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#32
I am the guy who posted all that on Warseer. To clarify:

Vlad does indeed star in this novel. He saves important people, inspires the Bretonnians to find Gilles and Abhorash (leaving a message for Abhorsash "Tell him he was right in the end."), kills countless daemons (and if I recall a Bloodthirster) and saves Isabella by putting the ring on her finger and performing a double-suicide. This removes the demon within her.

Abhorash is off screen, repaying his debt to Gilles and Bretonnia. Vlad comments to himself (about Abhorash); "What warriors you could have made these men (Bretonnians), had you not sworn that damn Oath."

Settra saves Nagash. He does so after it looks like he's joined Chaos. Settra informs Nagash that he will accept his fealty after he destroys the Chaos Gods. These pathetic Chaos Gods think to rule Settra? SETTRA RULES. Nagash later dies after Teclis blows up and the winds are sucked into the Warp Rift. He is the last Incarnate to lose his wind; showing great resistance but eventually crumbling to dust.

Arkhan has been affected by Aliathra's touch. He can see the future to some extent. He sees the man amidst the void saving everything. He says to Neferata that they will be barely a memory amidst lost and legendary history. He kisses her on the hand, and asks her to go to Sylvania and "lead our people to safety", imparting a method of escape. Neferata kindly takes grieving Isabella (very motherly) and flies back to Sylvania to meet her "greatest rival and best friend", Khalida. Arkhan is last seen talking to Nef earlier on. Nagash did at one point say to Arkhan; "DIE WELL, MY SERVANT" when he saw him last. It was an oddly nice moment, despite the word choice. :D

They have undead, human (from Sylvania and Averland) and halfling refugees all hiding in Castle Sternieste. Nef arrives just in time for the warp to strike. Khalida and Nef share friendly words, accepting that they were too late to enact Arkhan's plan and that their rivalry is meaningless now. We do not see them die; instead we just see Skeletons bracing shields against the incoming energy. It is written as though this is a moment of futility.

Mannfred goes batshit and decides he'll kill Nagash with the warp rift and 'rule the world of anarchy if he cannot rule the world of order'. Vlad earlier said he preferred Konrad; at least he had some backbone. Vlad later said he didn't want Mannfred to die as he loved him like a son, flawed or not. Either way - damn it, Mannfred.
 
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El Syf

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#33
Great to hear Abhorash sort of makes an appearance.
Was working on fluff of him the red duke, mangari and varison uniting with Gilles and goin down fighting! Seems GW had the same idea!
 
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#34
The Red Duke makes an appearance too. He, Elize von Carstein, Duke Jerrod (and his army) and two other vamps (unnamed) go to ride to La Maisontaal to join Abhorash and Gilles. Vlad and he seem to know each other. Vlad and Abhorash also appear to be friends, or at least respect one another. Vlad says; "Abhorash is the best of us."
 

El Syf

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#35
Getting both books tomorrow. Although they've only been included to be killed off I'm so happy that Abhorash and the red duke get a mention! :)
 

Malisteen

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#38
Ah, so none of our cast survive to bubble/new/whateverhammer. A pity, as I really like pretty much all of our end times crew, even 'dammit-mannfred'. Of course, when it comes to Nagash 'crumbling to dust' is hardly proof of a final end. Even if they intend for him to be dead and gone now, he's easily something they could revive, oh, ten or so years down the line, as an 'unspeakable evil from a time before time', sort of what the liche seems to be shaping up as in Adventure time. Hell, as with Drachenfels, they could even avoid naming him explicitly, leaving his true identity as an easter egg for grognards.

Speaking of, any word on the Nameless's fate? Do they ever reveal his true name?
 
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#39
I don't know. I skipped to halfway in and read from there. I basically wanted the juicy bits. Haven't got the book to hand, either.

I presume he dies as he doesn't appear.
 
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#41
Vlad and Isabella fight twice. First time she beheads him; but he has the ring. Later, at Middenheim, the event I described earlier occurs.
 
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Shareya

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#42
Great -.- Bloodlines wiped out, Neferata poof and it's time to ignore End Times and just stick to the old fluff in roleplay x)
 

Seneschal

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#43
What novel does all that take place in? Lord of the end times?

I also think that it could be Araloth who starts rebuilding the world or whatever it is from scratch at the end of book V
 

El Syf

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#44
According to josh Reynolds we would have explicitly found out in Blood Dragon Vlad is Anakht and manfred is khaled (making him lahmian!) although you can kind of get that from rise of nagash. It never happend because he had to write the end times. But nice to know.
 

Seneschal

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#45
Who is this Anahkt? He isn't Vashanesh is he?
I see a problem with manny being Lahmian as he had no idea what they were when he encountered them in the Vampire Wars trilogy
 

El Syf

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#46
Reynolds calls him a toned down version of vash but yes they are one and the same.
There was meant to be a revised vampire wars trilogy that would have dealt with this problem, but that like blood dragon got shelved.
 

Malisteen

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#47
No, Anny, isn't really Vash, but honestly I'm cool with that. Vash's old story really just completely robs Neferata of any narrative weight. In a setting with relatively few meaningful female characters, especially among the humans, it's just not worth the trade.

And seriously, she's the mother of all vampires, she deserves the starring roll in their origin. Undercutting Neferata by stealing all her thunder to hand it to Vash imo undercuts vampires as a thing in the warhammer setting altogether.
 
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Shareya

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#48
Exactly! It's one of the reasons why I am so fierce about this subject as well. Warhammer does not have many appealing female characters, they almost always serve as a "thing" to progress some male characters story.

The new fluff actually gave Neferata a lot of love and made her interesting for me, it even kept my interest in Warhammer fantasy going. Now however? Erh, I am being quite negative about what will come next.

Also all vampires originate from Lahmia, there is no escaping that.
 

Malisteen

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#49
There are a fair few meaningful female characters among the elves, especially the asraii, but yeah, they're kind of thin and far between on the human side. If I had to choose between Vashanesh and a Neferata who matters, I'd pick the latter every time. Especially since the better stuff in Vash's story, his interactions with Nagash, could easily be displaced a few centuries and inserted into Nagash's war against Sigmar instead.
 

Shareya

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#50
I do believe they did this already? After all the main vampire in the Nagash vs Sigmar thing was quite charming and everything! Granted he was also an ass who killed scared children because their blood was the sweetest >.>
 
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