Legion of Nagash The Standard Characters of Nagash's Legion

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ah good, I'm glad someone replied as to be honest I didn't have a clue what to do with this character.

So we're looking at basically an ethereal character in a suit of armour.

I do however think we should actually go in the opposite direction with it - a faster, but perhaps more fragile combat character. The reason I say that is because the Dread Lord is already a tough to kill character with T6 & 4W, and it seems silly to have two characters who are similar. Any way's just my opinion, what do other's think?

Based on that here are some preliminary stats / rules I thought of

M5 / WS6 / BS0 / S4 / T4 / W3 / I6 / A5 / Ld9

Equipment:
Handweapon - may chose and additional HW, or GW appropriate points - these have Unseen Death ability as noted below. may also choose a magic weapon but this will not benefit from the Unseen Death Ability

Armour - Wears the Floating Armour as described below - the Revenant must wear this and may not choose any other mudane or magical armour

Magic Items: May purchase upto 100pts of magical items with the exception of magical amour. It cannot choose a Book of Nagash or powerstone, but may choose a dispel Scroll.

Rituals of Nagash: The Revenant knows all four Rituals and may cast two per magic phase at Bound Level 4.

Magic Aura: The presence of the Revenant adds two PD & DD to the army pool in the appropriate magic phases.

Special Rules
Undead
Ethereal

Unseen Death
The Revenants blade belongs to the world of spirits and death, its sharp edge cannot be seen but those struck by its cold edge feel it nonetheless.
All attacks made by the Revenants normal weapons do not allow any armour saves and have -1 modifier to any ward saves.

Floating Armour
The plates of ancient armour float atop the spirit form of Revenant, shifting and moving to protect its wearer as best as possible.
Confers a 3+ armour save and 5+ ward save.


I feel the above is very different to the other two level characters, and interesting enough to use. What do others think? I also what to make sure we don't make one character better than the other, ie no brainer choices.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

The Revenant comes across as being a real swine to beat. He is a magical powerhouse with no apparent weakness beyond his equipment being chosen for him. The ignoring of armour saves makes him too good. KB would suffice for him really. I honestly think the Revenant should be a step up from the Warrior in the rare section. Like a Treeman Ancient.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

A magical powerhouse? he can't actually use any of the PD - he is not actually a wizard.

So you think the Revenant should have the same idea as the ancient warrior - and thus a controller behind him?

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

The logic is that the Revenant is the complete nexus of the Ancient Warrior, Spirit and Body combined - he generates the dice but the armour prevents him using them, he is a little weaker in terms of S and T compared to the Warrior but the rituals make him harder to kill.

Thinking more, the Revenant is ok aside from 'Unseen Death'

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok, so after discussion via MSN to Voltaire, the following changes were thought up:

Change WS to 7
Give him hatred (entombed in armour he's not best pleased lol)
Change the Unseen Death to Armour Piercing.

I'm in agreement, so others comments please!

 

[Arion]

I like it! The change to more agile fits better here.

I think that he should only add 1 DD, as 2 DD makes him a bit no-brainer, you get a good boost to your magic defense, and a quite reasonable CC character.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Looking at it I agree Arion. So with these changes the Revenant stands as below. Any idea of points cost?

M5 / WS7 / BS0 / S4 / T4 / W3 / I6 / A5 / Ld9

Equipment:
Handweapon - May chose an additional HW, or GW appropriate points - these have Unseen Death ability as noted below. May also choose a magic weapon but this will not benefit from the Unseen Death Ability

Armour - Wears the Floating Armour as described below - the Revenant must wear this and may not choose any other mudane or magical armour

Magic Items: May purchase upto 100pts of magical items with the exception of magical amour. It cannot choose a Book of Nagash or powerstone, but may choose a dispel Scroll.

Rituals of Nagash: The Revenant knows all four Rituals and may cast two per magic phase at Bound Level 4.

Magic Aura: The presence of the Revenant adds two PD & one DD to the army pool in the appropriate magic phases.

Special Rules
Undead
Ethereal
Hatred

Unseen Death
The Revenants blade belongs to the world of spirits and death, its sharp edge cannot be seen but those struck by its cold edge feel it nonetheless.
All attacks made by the Revenants normal weapons have the armour piercing special rule.

Floating Armour
The plates of ancient armour float atop the spirit form of Revenant, shifting and moving to protect its wearer as best as possible.
Confers a 3+ armour save and 5+ ward save.

 

[Arion]

A vampire lord (leading a similar type of list) is 205 pts, the revenant is slightly weaker (-20/-30pts). But the revenant has ethereal, hatred (maybe it should be eternal hatred?) and the armour. Ethereal and hatred (in terms of bloodline powers) add up to 75pts and a 5+ ward is usually 30 pts, a 3+ amour save is about 10-15pts.
The PD & DD are like a lvl 2 (the vamp lord) and since he can only use the rituals that in balances it out to no real pts change, perhaps +5/10, but as the hatred isn't eternal we can take 5/10 away from the 75pts. So thats irrelavent.

In total I'd say 205-30+30+75+10= 290pts. That feels about right.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Good points work there Arion - what do you think of the other characters - Dread Lord and the Lord level caster? Could you work out points cost for them as well?

Also Voltaire suggested earlier today that the Lord level caster could be called a Disciple of Nagash - which of course I whole heartedly support! Anyone else have any suggestions, or think it is too a good idea?

 

[Arion]

The DreadLord below is the one we are using right?
Nihilus says 250pts...
I say: I'll use a wight lord as a base, as he already has stats sort of similar, and wight blades, with similar weapon options. The stat differences are (with points costs roughly put using the dwarf AB and my beta stage special character design rules (yes, I decided to start that up again) , but -5 points as these are base stats, not additions to an already powerful model)
+2 WS (15pts)
+1 Str (15pts)
+1 T ( 40pts)
+1 W (40-45pts)
+1 I (5pts)
+1 LD (+ 10pts)

This amounts to 125 pts + 75pts for my base + terror (which is generally 50pts) + an extra 1 to his AS (5 pts or so), + a level one wizard (30pts) + 35 pts for the extra 50 pts of magic item allowance, +10 pts for impalcable will, . =
125+75+50+5+30+35+ 10 = 330 pts.

This seems a bit overpriced, but you must realise that 6 T,4W and a 3+ amour save is enourmously hard to kil. And 4 str 5 killing blow,magical attacks is a force to be reckoned with. Then expect extra protection or killing power from the magic items. Then with the Great Wep, he is a chariot destroyer. Added to that is that he is a lvl 1 wizard.

Dread Lord...............250pts.

M 4/WS 6/BS 0/S 5/T 6/W 4/I 5/A 4/Ld 10

Magic:
The Dread Lord is a Lvl 1 wizard and must select spells from the Rituals of Nagash (or in the case of the Rituals of Nagash acting like TK incantations- the Dread Lord may cast one Ritual per turn like a bound spell, at a power level determined by rolling 2D6, in addition the Dread Lord contributes 1 dispel die)

Equipment:
-Hand Weapon
-Shield
-Full Plate Armor(4+ armor save)

Special Rules:
-Undead
-Wight Blades
-Terror
-Implacable Will: Any unit which the Dread Lord joins may march move heedless of march block, or any other marching restrictions. In addition any unit subject to the Alive! special rule will become unbreakable, and any Undead unit will lose one less wound due to combat resolution, if joined by the Dread Lord.

Options:
Great Weapon……………………………….................14 pts.
Exchange shield for additional hand weapon………….12 pts.
Lance(if mounted)……………………………...............18 pts.

Mount(one choice only):
Skeletal Steed]¦..................21 pts.
Barding………………………………..............7 pts.
Hellstead………………………………..........................24 pts.
- Choice to ride whichever monster mount is decided for Nagash's Legion

Magic Items:
Common/Nagash’s Legion
lists up to a total of………………………………...........100 pts.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

300 Points puts him on a reasonable par with the likes of Daemon Princes which is a good place to be considering him immense abilities.

 

[Arion]

Which also makes the revenat a unlikely to be taken choice. The staying power this guy offers is immense, a revenant at just 10 pts lower is minimal in comparison.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I feel there should a slight change for the Dreadlord, in that he should not be a lvl 1 wizard. I think he should know all 4 Rituals and can cast one per magic phase at its bound level, but he does not generate any PD or DD - what do others think?

So the other main question is, if the Revenant is no where near as good as the Dreadlord but similar, is the Revenant overcosted? Or the Dreadlord undercosted?

You have got to remember the Revenant is ethereal, adds PD & DD to the army, and is actually quite nasty in combat with 5 re-rollable attacks. Still I do agree, that in comparison the Dreadlord is a better choice, so any ideas what to do?

 

[Arion]

If you took away the lvl one wizard, I'd cost him at 315, which isn't unreasonable. And then perhaps move the revenant down 10pts (to 280), which dosn't make that large a change, and makes both quite viable. Or perhaps even down to 275, although a small sacrifice would need to be made, perhaps -1 to the AS?.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

What would have to the points cost of the Revenant if we scrap the armour save all together and give him a 4+ ward? Would make a more interesting choice then, plus better survivability for what your paying out for him?

We have got to remember that sometimes points costs are different for other armies, as it depends on how an army functions as a whole with its strengths and weaknesses.

 

[Belladamma Voltaire]

275 sounds about right for that one to me. I would probably concretely decide the points costs dependent on the impact of a units function on the entire army.

 

[Arion]

Ok, so well put the points costs within a +5/-5 region on those units until playtesting.

So revenant: 270-280 (I like the idea of only 4+ward)
Dreadlord : 310-320

Sound about right?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Sounds great so far.

What about the Lord level casters points? and name - I'm currently voting for DoN lol.

 

[Arion]

I believe the one we are using is below?
Nihilus says:280pts
I say: I'll use lord level wizards from 3 armies as a base for this
The crossreferance: Old master necromancer is 185pts, woodelf spell weaver is 215pts and darkelf high sorceress is the same. Since elves generally cost more this point difference can be ingnored. So The old master necromancer is a good base.

Stat differences are-
+1 LD 5pts (as the generals LD dosn't matter as much in VC)

Therefore: 185pts+5pts+10 or so points for the jar+30pts for the +1 to casting (Staff of sorcery is 50pts, and dispelling bonuses are slightly better, and this is a base ability)= 230pts

Then we have the two Rituals, these should amount to 30 pts (15pts per ritual) which dosn't seem unreasonable. = 260pts

260 pts isn't that bad considering the amount of magic this guy can pump out. 2 bounds (perhaps 3 with magic items) and a level 4's spells.

This dosn't seem to bad, 280 pts is a bit much though, as you still get 100pts of Magic Items, and the extra level.

High Priest of the Nagashi Cult(?)…………………280 pts.
M 4/WS 3/BS 3/S 3/T 4/W 3/I 5/A 1/Ld 9

Magic:
A Master Cultist is a Lvl 3 wizard. He may choose spells from either the Lore of Shadows, Death, or Ngash and may use two Rituals of Nagash as bound spells at a power level of 4.

Equipment:
-Hand Weapon
-Scarab Jar: Counts as a one use only, strength 4 breath weapon

Options:
-May be upgraded to a Lvl 4 wizard for +35 pts.

Special Rules:
-Undead
-Master of Undeath: The High Priest gains a +1 to cast spells from the Lore of Nagash.

Mount(one choice only):
Skeletal Steed…………………..12 pts.
Hellstead………………………..15 pts.
(Monster Mount choice for Nagash’s Legion)

Magic Items:
Common/Nagash’s Legion
Lists up to a total of…………………….100 pts.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok so without further ado I present the 3 Lord Level Characters of the Legion of Nagash:

Dread Lord...............310pts
M 4 / WS 6 / BS 0 / S 5 / T 6 / W 4 / I 5 / A 4 / Ld 10

Magic
The Dread Lord knows all four Rituals of Nagash and may cast one per magic phase

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Shield
-Full Plate Armor(4+ armor save)

Special Rules
-Undead
-Wight Blades
-Terror
-Implacable Will: Any unit which the Dread Lord joins may march move heedless of march block, or any other marching restrictions. In addition any unit subject to the Alive! special rule will become unbreakable, and any Undead unit will lose one less wound due to combat resolution, if joined by the Dread Lord.

Options
Great Weapon.................14 pts.
Exchange shield for additional Hand Weapon.................12 pts.
Lance(if mounted)...............18 pts.

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed..................21 pts.
Barding..............7 pts.
Hellstead..........................24 pts.
- Choice to ride whichever monster mount is decided for Nagash's Legion

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion lists up to a total of...........100 pts.


Disciple of Nagash ...................260 pts.
M 4 / WS 3 / BS 3 / S 3 / T 4 / W 3 / I 5 / A 1 / Ld 9

Magic
A Disciple of Nagash is a Lvl 3 wizard. He may choose spells from either the Lore of Shadows, Death, or Ngash and may use two Rituals of Nagash as bound spells at a power level of 4.

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Scarab Jar: Strength 4 breath weapon. One Use Only

Options
-May be upgraded to a Lvl 4 wizard for +35 pts.

Special Rules
-Undead
-Master of Undeath: The High Priest gains a +1 to cast spells from the Lore of Nagash.

Mount(one choice only)
Skeletal Steed............12 pts.
Hellstead..............15 pts.
(Monster Mount choice for Nagash's Legion)

Magic Items
Common/Nagash's Legion Lists up to a total of..............100 pts.
A Disciple of Nagash must choose one Book of Nagash as described in the Magic Item section. This does not count towards his magic item allowance.


Revenant...............275pts
M 5 / WS 7 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 5 / Ld 9

Magic
The Revenant knows all four Rituals of Nagash and may cast two per magic phase

Equipment
-Hand Weapon
-Floating Armour (Described below)

Special Rules
-Undead
-Ethereal
-Hatred
-Unseen Death
The Revenants blade belongs to the world of spirits and death, its sharp edge cannot be seen but those struck by its cold edge feel it nonetheless.
All attacks made by the Revenants normal weapons have the armour piercing special rule. This does not apply if the Revenant takes a magic weapon. Note this is classed as an ability of the Revenant and not the weapon and thus cannot be negated.
-Magical Aura
Each Revenant on the board adds two power dice / one dispel dice in the appropriate magic phases to the armies pool, that may be used by any friendly caster.

Options
Great Weapon.................8 pts.
Exchange shield for additional Hand Weapon.................8 pts.
Lance (if mounted).......................6pts

Magic Items
-Floating Armour - Magic Armour
The plates of ancient armour float atop the spirit form of Revenant, shifting and moving to protect its wearer as best as possible.
Confers a 4+ ward save
-Common/Nagash's Legion lists up to a total of...........100 pts.(May only choose Dispel Scrolls as an Arcane option)

 

[Arion]

If we brought the revenants strength up to 5 and increased the point cost slightly, I think that would be better, I think. As you get strength 5 without sacrificing AP.

 

[Dark Lord Nihilus]

I don't think that the Revenant should contribute any PD, instead I suggest that they simply cast rituals as a bound spell with a power level of 3 and contribute 1 DD. In addition, I'm a bit hesitant with the point cost of the Revenant, he has a 4+ ward save and is ethereal (base), I think he should be a bit more expensive (maybe 300ish?).

 

[Arion]

You must consider the other characters, if the revenant is 300pts, who he would become a minority choice.

 

[Dark Lord Nihilus]

Then drop the ward save to 5+.

 

[Arion]

Reading over it again, I believe we should take away 1 PD and the ability to ride anything but the monster mount. Mounts just don't fit with the image of a revenant. That good Nihilus?