TVC OOC (New)

[Gree]

I don't know, Vrakian could probably kill most of the council in close combat, and Serpino would have an excellent anyone as long as he had some length prep time and information on their weaknesses.

And that's what I'm saying shouldn't be the point or power level of a secondary character. I could throw in a bunch of Chaos Daemon Princes and rape the entire Council but that wounldn't be fair or fun for anyone. There should be a limit on the amount of free-reign players have with their characters.

I never made them with power in mind at all. I think it's ridiculous to think that any other vampire characters we create cannot beat a Council member no matter what. I made each of my characters in a subversion of an ''archtype''.

After all, I don't deny you roleplaying powerful characters outside of Vekarin, why should you deny me the chance to roleplay powerful characters outside of Mircea? Most people here are roleplaying at least to characters. I'm roleplaying Walach Harkon as a secondary character, but nobody would deny he can solo at least a few members of the councill.

 

[Count Erick]

A bit off topic, but on the nature of 'power levels' one of the biggest problems I had when I first joined up was (to be frank) just how broken a lot of the characters seem to be. Being someone new, it's not very much fun to try and play with someone who you try to make balanced when everyone else is running around with vampires that have abilities to rival the gods themselves!
I cant speak for everyone, but it made me feel undervalued that my character is so far beneath everyone else on the power scale, and having this rammed home by the Von Carsteins verbal reprimands just didnt make things very fun.
The way things are set up with the power character are throwing around it pretty much necessitates a new player to come up with a character thats a 1st generation Get of Vlad to have a chance of competing or having their voice heard.
Just my opinion though...

 

[Ghouly]

how so Erik Muller beat Graveclaw nearly to a pulp (I was trying for a fair fight, and not godmod) well anyhow DoN was the one who posted up the Power lists and assigned Graveclaw as the Strongest member of the Council I honestly thought that Magenqrox and Vekarin were going to be stronger.

 

[Gree]

A bit off topic, but on the nature of 'power levels' one of the biggest problems I had when I first joined up was (to be frank) just how broken a lot of the characters seem to be. Being someone new, it's not very much fun to try and play with someone who you try to make balanced when everyone else is running around with vampires that have abilities to rival the gods themselves!

Yeah, sometines I feel this too.

I cant speak for everyone, but it made me feel undervalued that my character is so far beneath everyone else on the power scale, and having this rammed home by the Von Carsteins verbal reprimands just didnt make things very fun.

I don't really recall Mircea treating you with anything other than indifference.

 

[Count Erick]

how so Erik Muller beat Graveclaw nearly to a pulp

Muller was torn up also, the difference being is regenerative abilities.

I don't really recall Mircea treating you with anything other than indifference.

I cant really recall many specific instances, its been awhile. However, the one instance I do remember, and that was the straw which broke the camels back, was when my character (Count Erick) offered the support of some of the southern regions of the Old World and was (in a very condensed nutshell) laughed at.

But I'd like to say that I'm not trying to complain about the past or point fingers at anyone. I'm just stating how what I felt at the time, and something of how I feel now.
If I really wasn't happy with the TVC I wouldn't still be here now.

 

[Gree]

I don't really recall Mircea treating you with anything other than indifference.

I cant really recall many specific instances, its been awhile. However, the one instance I do remember, and that was the straw which broke the camels back, was when my character (Count Erick) offered the support of some of the southern regions of the Old World and was (in a very condensed nutshell) laughed at.

Well I was talking about Muller, but I was really trying to be in character. I certainly don't want to discourage you from playing, it's just that Mircea is an asshole.

---

Alright, I have a question, can I get at least 1 Werewolf to survive this battle other than Muller? I have plans.

 

[Lord of Ravens]

Well, most of our Vampires are second or third generation. Therefore, they are entitled to be strong.

If you feel that your character is getting unfairly beaten in a duel, pm the person whose character you are fighting. That way you can sort out any minor issues before they become major problems. For example, when Peter and Mircea fought, Gree and I pm'ed before almost every post. Its easier to clarify things before than correct them after.

But yes i agree that a revised character sheet for everybody might be a good plan. I will put my hands up and admit that Peter has been using Fire spells, and I did not specify that he used these on his bio.

There, thats my two cents. Hope I didnt offend anybody...

 

[Trevy the Great]

I never made them with power in mind at all. I think it's ridiculous to think that any other vampire characters we create cannot beat a Council member no matter what. I made each of my characters in a subversion of an ''archtype''.

Council members are the most powerful of their bloodlines, as most of them are several thousand years old and have been sired by the first of their bloodlines while wielding incredibly powerful magic and weapons. Creating a great deal of characters at this power level is insane, as it not only unbalances the game but also screws around the entire story of TVC. These sorts of individuals are supposed to be few and far between, but if we all create three or four of them why are we taking on Nagash in the first place? Why not simply obliterate him with a snap of our fingers and move on to taking over the world?
Think of the difference between a Vampire Lord and a Vampire Count in last edition's Vampire Counts Army Book. Counts were adequate leaders and generals for your army, undeniably powerful vampires but no more than any other highly-trained Lord choice. Lords were the most ancient of vampire kind and were only viable in massive games when they were at liberty to devour entire regiments and the most powerful enemy heroes whole. They were a 0-1 choice and cost a great deal of points, representing their extreme rarity.

After all, I don't deny you roleplaying powerful characters outside of Vekarin, why should you deny me the chance to roleplay powerful characters outside of Mircea? Most people here are roleplaying at least to characters.

Okay, no problem.
I'm just going to go write up entries for my army of vampirised Chaos demigods now. Since you have no problem with me playing multiple powerful characters, you'll have no problem when they arbitrarily decide to destroy both the Council and Nagash's forces at the same time.

 

[Get of W'soran]

Okay, no problem.
I'm just going to go write up entries for my army of vampirised Chaos demigods now. Since you have no problem with me playing multiple powerful characters, you'll have no problem when they arbitrarily decide to destroy both the Council and Nagash's forces at the same time.

Whilst I read heavy sarcasm there I would really like to see that
But maybe thats just me

 

[Gree]

Council members are the most powerful of their bloodlines, as most of them are several thousand years old and have been sired by the first of their bloodlines while wielding incredibly powerful magic and weapons. Creating a great deal of characters at this power level is insane, as it not only unbalances the game but also screws around the entire story of TVC. These sorts of individuals are supposed to be few and far between, but if we all create three or four of them why are we taking on Nagash in the first place? Why not simply obliterate him with a snap of our fingers and move on to taking over the world?

What roleplay are you playing? Mircea is hardly the absolute paragon of his bloodline, the same goes for Simon and Karl, while undenaibly powerful vampire lords, are hardly undeaftable. Even the likes of Walach and the Red Duke can only do so much without their armies. In fact most of the council is second of third generation at the most.

Come to think of it, Only Lesa, Vekarin and V'razin truely qualify for your claims. And even then a large enough army will kill them if they are unsupported.

Let's look at it shall we?

Simon, Mircea, Karl-Simon and Mircea are Third generation, Karl is Second Generation, aall re less than 1,000 old.
Peter: Less than 1000 years old, Third generation at the least.
Graveclaw: Again, less than 1000 years old.
Sweeney Todd and Co.: Again, less than 1000 years old and probably not Second generation.
Helena: 300-400
Zaak: 150 years old and mostly focused around magic crafting.
Nightwere: Lookie here, the only one outside the ''big three'' that is more than two thousand years old! And even he is only good at magic and crafting compared to the ''average'' combat lord. Nightwere is not invincible.
Milosh: 1600 or so.

So in conclusion we have more vampires that are NOT Invincible lords. Even Lesa is only 2800 or so. Only Vekarin and V'razin still remeber the ''good old days'', and both of them are severely limited on one aspect and hardly invincible.

Think of the difference between a Vampire Lord and a Vampire Count in last edition's Vampire Counts Army Book. Counts were adequate leaders and generals for your army, undeniably powerful vampires but no more than any other highly-trained Lord choice. Lords were the most ancient of vampire kind and were only viable in massive games when they were at liberty to devour entire regiments and the most powerful enemy heroes whole. They were a 0-1 choice and cost a great deal of points, representing their extreme rarity.

And they still can be beaten. As has happened several times on the tabletop and in fluff. Not to mention much of the council are not all-conquering gods like you claim. Vampire lords can and have been beaten before fluffwise. Again, only Vekarin, Lesa, V'Razin and maybe Milosh qualify, and even then they can be overwhelmed and killed by a large enough army.

Okay, no problem.
I'm just going to go write up entries for my army of vampirised Chaos demigods now. Since you have no problem with me playing multiple powerful characters, you'll have no problem when they arbitrarily decide to destroy both the Council and Nagash's forces at the same time.

Then you are a hypocrite for saying that when other characters have several powerful characters they are currently roleplaying. You yourself amoung them.

Not to mention you completely mininterpreted what I said in the first place. You are completely blowing out what I said not to mention heavily deviating from my original point. You are also completely exaggerating the power level and context of the combat situations that I attempted to explain.

But you are deviating from your orginal point. You claimed that no secondary character could beat a Council member in combat. Well I roleplay Walach, he is a secondary character. But no one in their right mind would suggest that Mircea would beat Walach in close combat. Same goes for the Red Duke. Going by your claim Mircea> Walach.

(In fact I just realised that Mircea is no longer technically part of the Council, and he just beat Peter, a council member. So...........)

 

[Get of W'soran]

Not aimed at anyone but just over whats generally been said

1. Gree is right, Indeed out of all the vampires there are only three that are exceedingly powerful and where sired by the founders of their respective lines (that I can think of).
And V'azrin isn't even on the good side anymore hes on Nagash's so not even on the council.
So now the only two who are, at the moment, on the council that are sired by the first of their lines and as such super powerful ancient second generation vamp lords thats Lesa and Vekarin.
2. From a personal point of view, second generation doesn't have to mean epic. whilst rping V'azrin I've always tried to keep him so that sure magically he is superb but if you get close enough and past his magic then yes a much younger vampire could slay him.
But look at Karl, hes a get of Vlads and hes hardly a powerhouse, he just got completely destroyed by Todd. To be honest compared with Simon and Micrea (both younger and third generations) I don't think hes any more powerful, hes probably even weaker than them.
3. I will fully admit I believe I may have played Akarin above his level and if anyone felt this way I apologise, saying that in the end he still lost in the most recent battle.
4. Was going to comment on the IC verbal insults but I don't think I can, in all rp's I've played in I've either been a sarcastic prick or been on the recieving end, I just thought it was apart of it all. However if I ever did do so towards any of the players and it annoyed them then once again I do apologise.


Lastly I just think a listing of updated power levels would be awesome

 

[Gree]

Lastly I just think a listing of updated power levels would be awesome

I suggest we get a offical numberd set of ranks. Going from 1 to 10 possibly, with the leftovers are 10-20.

But yes, revised power levels would be good.

 

[Count Erick]

Perhaps we could do something like the Bleach Databooks where each charachter has a number between 1 and 100 for specific areas like Physical Strength, Toughness, Magical Ability, Intelligence, Dexterity, etc...

 

[Simon von Carstein]

Too be fair Erik when you joined Simon had already conquered most of the southern provinces if you'd taken the trouble to read the story you would have known that and if you did read it then you should have known what the reaction would be. Is it any wonder your vampire was laughed at for trying to offer what wasn't his in the first place.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Ok this discussion is getting a bit heated so keep it calm and civil please.

Right firstly, I have to say I primarily agree with Gree. The majority of the character bios are ok, being 3rd gen and reasonably balanced. To be the honest only characters that are overly powerful are Lesa but then again she may be extremely powerful in one area, but she is extremely weak when it comes to combat. Vekarin with this plate is very powerful as the only character that can keep him in check or either the Duke via combat or Lesa by negating his armour. Anyone else would find it difficult.

To be honest there will always be some characters that are more powerful than others, this isn’t the kind of RP where all are equal. Those who started the RP and have staid with it right from the start do have characters that are perhaps a tad powefuller, but rightly so given the 30 plus chapters they have put it.

However what I am seeing sometimes is that people are not sticking to their bio and doing things they shouldn’t be, or suddenly turning into combat masters, casting powerful spells etc. I admit I have been perhaps to easy going as a GM as it seems that some have perhaps taken liberty with this which has spoilt it for others.

So how to fix this moving forwards? Firstly, there will be a revision of all characters. I will be started a new sign-up thread shortly with the new layout that all bios must be laid out in. I will post up Lesa and the Duke (extreme magic and combat), so you have an idea of power levels. We will be using a stat system from 1-10 to gauge certain abilities. Therefore I don’t want anyone posting in the current chapter until their character has been checked and cleared by me.

Secondly, once your character is approved you cannot start doing anything you didn’t state in your bio. No casting spells if you don’t know the Lore, no gaining a new powerful magic item. From now on new magic items and skills will have to be checked by me before using.

I am at work at mo, so the new bio thread will go up in a couple of hours.

 

[Gree]

However what I am seeing sometimes is that people are not sticking to their bio and doing things they shouldn’t be, or suddenly turning into combat masters, casting powerful spells etc. I admit I have been perhaps to easy going as a GM as it seems that some have perhaps taken liberty with this which has spoilt it for others.

I hope not me?

So how to fix this moving forwards? Firstly, there will be a revision of all characters. I will be started a new sign-up thread shortly with the new layout that all bios must be laid out in. I will post up Lesa and the Duke (extreme magic and combat), so you have an idea of power levels. We will be using a stat system from 1-10 to gauge certain abilities. Therefore I don’t want anyone posting in the current chapter until their character has been checked and cleared by me.

I'm not really totally disagreeing or anything, but Don't you think that numbers might be a little restrictive? Or do you think it should be more like ''tiers''? and what about other abilities like tech?

Don't get me wrong, I'd love to work with you on this, I'm just simply wondering.

 

[Count Erick]

if you'd taken the trouble to read the story you would have known that and if you did read it then you should have known what the reaction would be. Is it any wonder your vampire was laughed at for trying to offer what wasn't his in the first place.

I did take the trouble to read the summaries, and no where in it did it state that you had somehow managed to subjugate Tilea, Estalia and the Border Princes.
However, if your expecting every new player to read the entirety of all 30 chapters your f****** insane.

 

[Simon von Carstein]

It was in the summaries just not in any great detail as I didn't write them. The summaries are there to give an idea. If you'd just looked at the summaries where its mentioned and then checked out the chapters that were referenced you would have have seen it quite clearly. For the record Simon hasn't subjugated Tilea or Estalia but he has signed a non aggression treaty with them.

 

[Count Erick]

Mircea returns with the Von Carstein Ring to Nexeternus as the von Carsteins begin to increase their territories in the Border Princes.

Thats from the summery of chapter 22, and its the only mention. Now granted, if I had had the free time to read every passing mention of something important in the summaries, or interest to read all of that chapter based on that one sentence I would have known what was going on. However, it hadn't occurred to me at the time of my joining just how much liberty the TVC was going to take from the Fantasy background.
I had assumed that the territories of the Old World would remain largely unchanged, and the Border Princes has always been an area where nations are created and destroyed (sometimes both in the space of a week) and that sentence can easily be interpreted as the Von Carsteins attempting to simply increase their holdings in the lawless region, which is something many would-be warlords have tried to do.
It doesn't say you managed to take the entire area over, and it doesn't suggest anything in a way that would incline me to read the chapter.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Erick, we're killing off what is basically the Warhammer equivalent of a primary antagonist to the entire world in this roleplay. Assume that we're taking a little liberty with the background.

Edit: DoN, I'm confused about this whole 'revised bio' dealy. Where do we post out bios? Do you want them in the same format as last time? What about this whole stat line that you were talking about?
Can we plan a little more before restricting posting?

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

You post your bios in the new sign up thread. It should be mainly copy pasting and inserting the stats, updating your items etc. I want this done so we are happy and clear before we continue posting.

As for that stat, I have posted up Lesa's bio as an example.

 

[Trevy the Great]

Hokay, boss.

 

[Gree]

However, if your expecting every new player to read the entirety of all 30 chapters your f****** insane.

Nobody claimed we were entirely sane in the first place. .

Anyway, I looked over the new Sigh up thread, looks good so far.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Happy with the bios so far. Its quite good actually that Vekarin posted his after Lesa's as it gives the two extremes. Basically they are the most powerful in their category, and whilst they are extremely powerful they are the top limit.

It is also interesting to read them as it does clear up some points that were unclear. I will get round to posting the Duke's shortly, however I will probably hold off on Milosh considering his current state.

 

[Gree]

BTW DoN, did you get my PM about Vrakian? I'm typin his bio up right now.