Okay, that one is disgraceful.
But he sounded like he was doing a blanket statement about everything that isnt by a master.
But he sounded like he was doing a blanket statement about everything that isnt by a master.
Two points against society! Potentially offensive.
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I find much of what passes for fine art offensive. I know a lot of artists, have seen how many of them work and have heard a lot of bullshit, from them and about them. True, they aren't all poor, some installations have even got me liking them, but 99% are just garbage.
I'm sure some child-like drawers can draw well, the ones who have actually learned how to draw and have come out the other side, Picasso-style. They are very much in the minority, nor do I feel that deliberately drawing like a child really contributes anything worthwhile in the examples that I have seen; if you want a childlike drawing, perhaps you should get a child to do it, you're never going to be better at it than they are.
Ultimately, its all subjective though. Just like rap.
Knowing artists does not help your point in any way. Also 99% is way to harsh. I myself am an artist and know a bunch of very talented artists, and none of them make crap art, and alot of their best stuff is installation art or expressionistic or abstract art. Thats a strange looking 99%. You should be careful with your blanket statements.
Sanai said:
Ok, I am using this one post as an example, so don't get upset Sanai, as it applies to everyone.
[mod]Stop making assumptions!![/mod]
All these posts are getting argumentative, not just this thread but the other ones because people are reading things, and then are making assumptions.
Unless some specifically states: I think [insert / name] is stupid etc, then don't assume they mean that.
If needs be, ask the question: Do you mean xxxxx?
Then once you have the specific information, then answer back. There are so many little stupid arguments starting because statements are being misinterpreted or wrong assumptions made.
Finally:
[mod]Everyone has the right to a different opinion[/mod]
If you are the kind of person who is going to get upset or angry by that, then you really shouldn't be reading these threads.
At the end of the day, if for example, I say all current Rap artists should be shot, then that is my right to say that as my opinion. As long as I don't get personally insulting / argumentative / aggressive etc.
If someone else doesn't like that, it really is tough. They can of course express their opinion back in a valid mature manner, but there is little point getting angry and upset by it.
So, please in this thread and the other threads, lets discuss things without getting upset. If you cannot do this, then please do not read things in this section.
DoN, I was not making an assumption. I was saying that in my opinion, that his wording sounded like that. I did not say that I assumed that he meant that. I was just stating what I felt it sounded like.
In that case, the assumption is yours.
In that case, the assumption is yours.
And yet you use artists that you know in making your point? I actually think knowing a lot of artists does make me more knowledgeable about art and its inner workings than I otherwise would be, as well as actually being an artist.
Well, to me its pretty accurate; it is my opinion on the current state of art, which clearly differs wildly from your own. Which is well illustrated by:
which I would disagree with, purely because I do not look favourably upon those kinds of art very often. But that is entirely my own view, and is most certainly skewed, like any other.
Its a matter of personal taste.
[mod]Sanai,
I am not arguing the point with you.
You made a return statement saying you was offended, based on a statement that you thought sounded like something. Thinking something about a statement which is not 100% clear is an assumption.
If you want to discuss this with me then feel free via PM.
Now back on topic [/mod]
I am not arguing the point with you.
You made a return statement saying you was offended, based on a statement that you thought sounded like something. Thinking something about a statement which is not 100% clear is an assumption.
If you want to discuss this with me then feel free via PM.
Now back on topic [/mod]
I am sorry for any offense I have caused. I am tired, drunk, sick of people misinterpreting what I say, and am sick of this thread and other threads in general.
Consider me out of this one.
Consider me out of this one.
Johnny B said:
And there you have it! It IS all about personal taste.
I'm an artist myself and I move somewhat between neo-realism and expressionism with some crazy stuff shooting out now and again. I like my works, well most of them anyway as I'm insanely critical, but I don't expect others to bow down for the superiority of my work nor do I shove it in anyone's face.
I have to honestly say I dislike a lot of younger artists these days. Just looking at their projects, the ones before they are leaving art school, fills me with dread. Maybe it's just not my thing, maybe I'm getting an old nag but to me it's darn ugly *shrugs* To each his own eh?
That said, even the "child-artists" probably can draw pretty darn good if they had a decent art school because it all begins with the classics. I had two years of old school realism before delving into more modern art and the folks who couldn't draw were quickly booted out.
To claim abstract or conceptual art as rubbish seems to me very narrow minded and negative. Any art someone creates should be respected purely because someones bothered to think about it and get of their arse and make it in the first place. Wether you actually like it or not is a different thing entirely. You like it? great! It does nothing for you? Fine, forget about it, move on and find something you do like. I spent three years getting my admitally useless fine art degree and at the end of it I still prefer looking at a Frank Frazetta picture to a Tracey Emin installation but I did learn it's the doing of creating and thinking that brings enjoyment to people and not always the end result that matters. There are a lot of people out there that think painting minis is childish and pointless, why would you want to be as blinkered as them?
And I'll say the same goes for rap. I mainly listen to metal, classical and jazz but I'll listen to jurrasic five or jeru the damaja over 30 seconds to mars or fall out boy anyday of the week purely on the grounds of personal taste. I dont listen to gangsta rap because bitches blunts and guns mean nothing to my life but maybe to others they do. Who's to say I'm right and there wrong? Enjoy what you like and why waste energy on hating things you dont?
However totally agree about the whole rudeness thing. People who dont say please and thankyou, litter or play music on buses should be hung, burnt and then shot in the face :mrgreen:
And I'll say the same goes for rap. I mainly listen to metal, classical and jazz but I'll listen to jurrasic five or jeru the damaja over 30 seconds to mars or fall out boy anyday of the week purely on the grounds of personal taste. I dont listen to gangsta rap because bitches blunts and guns mean nothing to my life but maybe to others they do. Who's to say I'm right and there wrong? Enjoy what you like and why waste energy on hating things you dont?
However totally agree about the whole rudeness thing. People who dont say please and thankyou, litter or play music on buses should be hung, burnt and then shot in the face :mrgreen:
I don't know about the littering thing. I mean on beaches and in the country side obviously a no no but I don't think it's a huge, huge problem in towns and cities as I am a believer that it provides jobs and my thinking there is mainly because Beijing has about 10 roadsweepers for every street, it's pretty clean all over and the homeless people pick up any bottles lying about and get cash from the council!! Not a bad system here. Obviously dumping in rivers is a no too!
It is the very lack of thinking that I so often encounter among artists that has led to my current views. And my clients would probably disagree with you about the end result
but I suppose thats the difference between illustration and fine art. If only it were still so. In my art class, I was the only one who could draw. Its like studying literature and being the only one who reads.
Dont worry Oni, its not just america that sucks its just about everywhre else too.
I'm a metal head and a fitness fanatic, so it means that I am either:
A) out on the road jogging and listening to my own music very very loud.
B) in the gym listening to my own music very very loud.
When I was working in a shop, specifically through the stock room, anyone else in the room would either put on an irritatingly bad CD (they loved a band that made me want to smash my face into the wall) or put on a local radio station filled with the same dribble over and over. Not good for an 8 hour shift when I am basically on my feet all day with a boss that I think may have been a robot sent from the future to annoy me.
I don't mind some rap music but most of it is the angry type, this new wave of rap where it just seems like an offensive love song is just a waste of energy on the part of the artists/their studios/the radio. Mostly because it is the same thing over and over again but also because it doesn't seem to be doing anything for individuals or for our culture. This type of music is (this will make me sound old) teaching the children nothing about real life, just about trying to pull girls in a club while our wasted.
The latest music trend over here in the UK is for female singers.
Now a great female vocalist can make an otherwise average band amazing, see a little known band called Nightwish (preferably the tarja stuff) and a female voice can be unbelievably powerful, stirring up great emotions that a male vocalist just can't.
But I am yet too be impressed by anything done by a female artist in the last few years in pop culture. I will however admit to being rather partial too some of the work done by a man on YouTube called Bliix, especially his lady gaga stuff which is mixed with some excellent guitar work that makes me think that Gaga should at least do a metal album for the lols.
For those of you who haven't heard the work of the next artist I am going to rag on, go too YouTube right now and look for “Kesha - Tick Tock” and have a bucket ready because it will make you want too vomit.
Now I know that accents affect how we speak and can definitely affect how we sound too others, but I have never heard anyone, in any language and with any accent, sound so damned stupid!
I physically hate her for sounding so stupid. Every time I hear this my stomach physically moves because I just can't stand how stupid this girl sounds. I'm not an elitist know it all and I always try to reserve judgement on others until I know more about them. But honestly I don't need to know more. If I look to find out more I'm worried that I might get a disease of some kind.
I honestly don't think that any part of western culture is going to advance in any major way if we don't have some better music out there, because music is a major part of our lives. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the culture (if you can call it that) we have today with TV being dominated (regrettably) by shows like the X-Factor and Pop Idol which receive millions more views than even the best written proper TV shows, which are far more deserving. If music wasn't such a central part of our culture we wouldn't have the technological advances we have now, the IPod Touch came out before the IPhone, which is considered one of the biggest advances in mass market technology since the newest generation of games consoles was launched.
It is up too the powers that be to use our current “culture” which is so heavily wrapped around music to better use than promoting the life style promoted by Kesha and the ever increasing gaggle of idiots that follow in her wake.
I'm a metal head and a fitness fanatic, so it means that I am either:
A) out on the road jogging and listening to my own music very very loud.
B) in the gym listening to my own music very very loud.
When I was working in a shop, specifically through the stock room, anyone else in the room would either put on an irritatingly bad CD (they loved a band that made me want to smash my face into the wall) or put on a local radio station filled with the same dribble over and over. Not good for an 8 hour shift when I am basically on my feet all day with a boss that I think may have been a robot sent from the future to annoy me.
I don't mind some rap music but most of it is the angry type, this new wave of rap where it just seems like an offensive love song is just a waste of energy on the part of the artists/their studios/the radio. Mostly because it is the same thing over and over again but also because it doesn't seem to be doing anything for individuals or for our culture. This type of music is (this will make me sound old) teaching the children nothing about real life, just about trying to pull girls in a club while our wasted.
The latest music trend over here in the UK is for female singers.
Now a great female vocalist can make an otherwise average band amazing, see a little known band called Nightwish (preferably the tarja stuff) and a female voice can be unbelievably powerful, stirring up great emotions that a male vocalist just can't.
But I am yet too be impressed by anything done by a female artist in the last few years in pop culture. I will however admit to being rather partial too some of the work done by a man on YouTube called Bliix, especially his lady gaga stuff which is mixed with some excellent guitar work that makes me think that Gaga should at least do a metal album for the lols.
For those of you who haven't heard the work of the next artist I am going to rag on, go too YouTube right now and look for “Kesha - Tick Tock” and have a bucket ready because it will make you want too vomit.
Now I know that accents affect how we speak and can definitely affect how we sound too others, but I have never heard anyone, in any language and with any accent, sound so damned stupid!
I physically hate her for sounding so stupid. Every time I hear this my stomach physically moves because I just can't stand how stupid this girl sounds. I'm not an elitist know it all and I always try to reserve judgement on others until I know more about them. But honestly I don't need to know more. If I look to find out more I'm worried that I might get a disease of some kind.
I honestly don't think that any part of western culture is going to advance in any major way if we don't have some better music out there, because music is a major part of our lives. If it wasn't, we wouldn't have the culture (if you can call it that) we have today with TV being dominated (regrettably) by shows like the X-Factor and Pop Idol which receive millions more views than even the best written proper TV shows, which are far more deserving. If music wasn't such a central part of our culture we wouldn't have the technological advances we have now, the IPod Touch came out before the IPhone, which is considered one of the biggest advances in mass market technology since the newest generation of games consoles was launched.
It is up too the powers that be to use our current “culture” which is so heavily wrapped around music to better use than promoting the life style promoted by Kesha and the ever increasing gaggle of idiots that follow in her wake.
I'm with everyone here.
If anyone says "i'm on a boat" i silently gut them and then rip thier head off in my mind. If someone says "hey I know that song, here lets listen to it" and puts thier i-pod into an I-home and subsequently plays that crap ass piece of toliet paper i reach for the nearest sledgehammer.
If anyone says "i'm on a boat" i silently gut them and then rip thier head off in my mind. If someone says "hey I know that song, here lets listen to it" and puts thier i-pod into an I-home and subsequently plays that crap ass piece of toliet paper i reach for the nearest sledgehammer.
I'd also add Red Cross, Peace Corps (is that based in just the US or has it spread now), or some sort of service orientated program.
Though I'd still put the military as number one. The discipline alone does wonders.
Though I'd still put the military as number one. The discipline alone does wonders.
Never thought of those two myself (The peace Corps isn't in the UK as far as I know...) but they seem like a really good addition.
Ive just spent a pleasant 20 minutes reading through this thread and giggling away to myself thinking "im not the only one then" and "yeah too true"
I have always maintained that rap music just needed a c in front of it and to see so many others of the same opinion is quite frankly heart warming. But then Ive always been into rock/alternative and my dad thought the same about that and still does lol
Im another of the old codgers at 41 though and was also thinking that when I was little, old people used to ridicule all that I held sacred (and still probably do) and now Im doing it. The thing is I feel totally justified in my opinions, so did they, and so will todays youth when they see the trends of the next generation.
Can society really continue to degenerate at such a pace and survive? Technology is truly amazing and brings fantastic advances to society as a whole, and yet it is more instrumental in its breaking down than anything else. When i was young (yeah, here we go, another old guy telling us stories about the war....well, not the war but you get the picture) everyone knew everyone else in our street and most of those in the nearby ones. Now people know a lot more people due to the net but they dont know them nearly as well as they mostly live in other parts of the world and those that live next door are often strangers.
I am guilty of this now as well, the people I talk to most are on facebook or myspace or forums such as this. With warhammer I do get to make a good circle of friends that I get to see regularly but I still dont know my new neighbours first names. They moved in last year....
I have always maintained that rap music just needed a c in front of it and to see so many others of the same opinion is quite frankly heart warming. But then Ive always been into rock/alternative and my dad thought the same about that and still does lol
Im another of the old codgers at 41 though and was also thinking that when I was little, old people used to ridicule all that I held sacred (and still probably do) and now Im doing it. The thing is I feel totally justified in my opinions, so did they, and so will todays youth when they see the trends of the next generation.
Can society really continue to degenerate at such a pace and survive? Technology is truly amazing and brings fantastic advances to society as a whole, and yet it is more instrumental in its breaking down than anything else. When i was young (yeah, here we go, another old guy telling us stories about the war....well, not the war but you get the picture) everyone knew everyone else in our street and most of those in the nearby ones. Now people know a lot more people due to the net but they dont know them nearly as well as they mostly live in other parts of the world and those that live next door are often strangers.
I am guilty of this now as well, the people I talk to most are on facebook or myspace or forums such as this. With warhammer I do get to make a good circle of friends that I get to see regularly but I still dont know my new neighbours first names. They moved in last year....
Is this really an example of degeneration though? I'm not sure it is, I think its just a shift. People don't have less friends, they just have friends further away that they met in different ways. If anything they have more friends. I don't know my neighbours, and frankly having seen them a few times I don't really want to.
I started ridiculing all that young people held sacred when I was 15. Its gotten progressively worse since
In a big way it is an example of Degeneration, Johnny B. Human interaction is something no computer can ever replace.
I remember playing catch with the neighbors, or going to my Karate classes. Boyscouts! That was awesome. People on people interaction. Scraped knees, sunburns, a few scars here and there, friends for life in middle school and promises over summer breaks, fighting/running from the bullies at school. Memories like this are something that everyone has, they catalog triumphs, defeats, experiences the brain constantly learns from. I'm not saying a computer can't give you those experiences through the wonders of the Interwebz, but the physical challenge, the lasting emotional bonds and the -hard copy pictures- we have of our childhoods, when we still went outside and played with our neighbors, is something that can't be synthesized.
Human interaction can never be replaced by computers. You simply can't do that sitting on your arse, and when our arses are getting proportionately larger we blame it on fast food instead of parenting. Or stress instead of parenting. Bullies sue the bullied when they fight back, and teachers can't teach the students what they need to learn. Societal degeneration is rampant, and there's no end in sight.
Sorry, that got a little heated.
Didn't mean to sound all like a Demagogue. I apologize if this seemed harsh. What's the word that was used in the other thread? Solipsism? This might just be a symptom of that, I guess.
I remember playing catch with the neighbors, or going to my Karate classes. Boyscouts! That was awesome. People on people interaction. Scraped knees, sunburns, a few scars here and there, friends for life in middle school and promises over summer breaks, fighting/running from the bullies at school. Memories like this are something that everyone has, they catalog triumphs, defeats, experiences the brain constantly learns from. I'm not saying a computer can't give you those experiences through the wonders of the Interwebz, but the physical challenge, the lasting emotional bonds and the -hard copy pictures- we have of our childhoods, when we still went outside and played with our neighbors, is something that can't be synthesized.
Human interaction can never be replaced by computers. You simply can't do that sitting on your arse, and when our arses are getting proportionately larger we blame it on fast food instead of parenting. Or stress instead of parenting. Bullies sue the bullied when they fight back, and teachers can't teach the students what they need to learn. Societal degeneration is rampant, and there's no end in sight.
Sorry, that got a little heated.
Didn't mean to sound all like a Demagogue. I apologize if this seemed harsh. What's the word that was used in the other thread? Solipsism? This might just be a symptom of that, I guess.I was talking about adults. Although my memories of outdoors play and school are not good memories; no sunburns or friends for life, only rugby in the pissing rain (not fun when you're skinny and hate sport), and teachers who behave worse than the students. To me, Boy Scouts sounds like the worst thing in the world. Of the friends I have now, only one is from school. Its only since I've been able to choose what I do, who I meet and how that I've actually started to enjoy life.
So I'd put it down to a difference in outlook.