Upcoming Warhammer Fantasy Releases- Including Nagash & new VC stuff.

[SoulSeeker]

Another grump here. I don't really like the models. They are far too toyish for my tastes, I can't decide if the biggest influence is Transformers, Pokemon or Disney. The old Nagash model with huge head was a joke, this one is a marvel of plastic engineering, but the head size seems wrong again - too small this time! I'm glad for the guys who are excited by the release, but it does nothing for the game in my eyes. It looks like WHFB is getting to be more like WH40k, I prefer the good old fluff and the good old divisions. All forces using Undeath - wtf? Nagash may well herald the end times, but the end of what? Certainly the end of my interest in what was once a great universe.

 

[Banat]

I imagine the obvious limitation will be undeath can only be used to raise units with the undead special rule.

I expect it to be an amalgamation of nehekharan and vampiric lores.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

It just seems so tricky. The Undead special rule has so much going on with it. Unless LoU provides a March bubble or Movement spell, it seems more like a liability to most armies.

 

[El Syf]

From a fluff perspective it kind of makes sense with everyone crapping themselves over Nagash that they turn to necromancy. If you can't beat him join him mentality. This also would insure undead/vc remain prominent and we are less likely to get beaten with the nerf stick. So I for one don't mind other races getting lore of undeath, it's not our lore and until we see it I'm not going to judge.

 

[Sception]

I prefer the good old fluff and the good old divisions.

That's just the thing, though. Maybe I'm just a bit older than you in this hobby, but to me the return of Nagash is the 'good old fluff', and the 'good old divisions' were, to me, ever an arbitrary and unwelcome intrusion that had the effect of elevating the pop culture icons of vampires and mummies above the true core of what was distinctive about the undead in the Warhammer World, the liches and necromancers, the mad, decrepit sorcerers of death, and chief among them Nagash.

You wonder if transformers or disney are the biggest influence, where as I look at these models, and the biggest influence I see is the old undead, the true original Warhammer undead. I see 20 year old warhammer aesthetics, I see John Blanche and Wayne England. I see some of the most distinctively warhammery warhammer undead that I've seen in a long time.

Now, of course, to each their own. I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking this stuff, though I do think you're being a touch melodramatic. I really don't think 'Tomb Kings' or 'Vampire Counts' are going anywhere, nor do I believe that the return of my unified 'Old Undead' will outlast this campaign. Things will go back to the good old (bad young) way of things soon enough. But in the mean time, I'm eating it up, because right now I'm feeling the same excitement I felt as I leafed through the 4th edition Undead army book for the first time nearly 20 years ago.

 

[Yorga]

So someone posted a photocopy of rules for the upcoming Lore Of Undeath deck Every wizard in the Warhammer World can take that Lore. It occurred to me that it would be a cool idea to make a Shun-Tuk army based off of Terry Goodkind's latest book in his Richard and Kahlan series. Use Savage Orcs with a white paint scheme and skull like face paint. Have them lead by shamen that have Occult Powers (Read: Lore of Undeath). I hope the spells are cool because I never was impressed with Waaagh Spells.

 

[Alabaster427]

So someone posted a photocopy of rules for the upcoming Lore Of Undeath deck Every wizard in the Warhammer World can take that Lore. It occurred to me that it would be a cool idea to make a Shun-Tuk army based off of Terry Goodkind's latest book in his Richard and Kahlan series. Use Savage Orcs with a white paint scheme and skull like face paint. Have them lead by shamen that have Occult Powers (Read: Lore of Undeath). I hope the spells are cool because I never was impressed with Waaagh Spells.

you mind posting a link to the lore? Pretty please?

 

[TheTrans]

Yeah one can't say they've seen a photocopy of the new magic..then ramble about occult orcs without a link!

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@TheTrans Yorga doesn't kiss and tell. He's classy.

 

[TheTrans]

Lies! None of us are classy! We spend our spare time making dudes that spend there spare time diddling with dead bodies

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

I like the idea of armies or wizards that use Lore of Undeath (outside of TK and VC) getting some sort of penalty for doing so, like maybe if Nagash is in the opposing army, the spell might backfire; or Nagash could gain control of the wizard or any troops raised; or the rest of the army turns on the wizard for heresy and kills him. Something like that.

I imagine the Lore of Undeath will work similar to the Malefic Daemon powers in 40k that any force can use. A miscast on any double unless you're a daemon in the case of Malefic or undead in the case of Undeath and then they work like a normal lore. The spells will be good -- otherwise there's no temptation -- yet they're only reliable and far less self-risking for the undead themselves.

 

[Count Homogenised]

Going back to the very early days of WFB, I believe it was not uncommon for other armies to have undead allies or the ability to summon undead (I think most people could have giants too but there was a chance they would turn up to a battle drunk).

I love the idea of a variant army and new magic, and will shell out my $$$ for this.

Not liking the new Nagash though; even sillier than the old metal clown/hat. Likewise not really sold to the skull horse mounts but. the characters themselves are okay.

Morgahsts are servicable but no real wow factor; they sort of look like they are dangling off a coat hook rather than flying.

New Spirit hosts are fun though and looking forward to any other releases as well.

 

[najo]

The rumored lore (kislev being destroyed, Manfred going to war with Archon, Settra being wiped out) just awesome. The ideas are awesome too. They are getting ready to bring an apoclypse to our beloved fantasy setting. I for one am very excited. And the models, they are bold and dynamic. They stand out against Warhammer 40k and Warmachine while having a distinct fantasy fell all their own. I think this new approach to warhammer is going to be good for it in the long run. The models can be painted any colors you want. I think part of the "toy" look is from their paint jobs being so colorful.

 

[MageoftheBones]

Already Planning to run a 6500 point game against a Chaos player in my area so I can run Nagash and my Vampire Lord teamed up together.

 

[benvoliothefirst]

That's just the thing, though. Maybe I'm just a bit older than you in this hobby, but to me the return of Nagash is the 'good old fluff', and the 'good old divisions' were, to me, ever an arbitrary and unwelcome intrusion that had the effect of elevating the pop culture icons of vampires and mummies above the true core of what was distinctive about the undead in the Warhammer World, the liches and necromancers, the mad, decrepit sorcerers of death, and chief among them Nagash.

You wonder if transformers or disney are the biggest influence, where as I look at these models, and the biggest influence I see is the old undead, the true original Warhammer undead. I see 20 year old warhammer aesthetics, I see John Blanche and Wayne England. I see some of the most distinctively warhammery warhammer undead that I've seen in a long time.

Now, of course, to each their own. I'm not saying you're wrong for not liking this stuff, though I do think you're being a touch melodramatic. I really don't think 'Tomb Kings' or 'Vampire Counts' are going anywhere, nor do I believe that the return of my unified 'Old Undead' will outlast this campaign. Things will go back to the good old (bad young) way of things soon enough. But in the mean time, I'm eating it up, because right now I'm feeling the same excitement I felt as I leafed through the 4th edition Undead army book for the first time nearly 20 years ago.

I perfectly agree, both with everything you just said and the manner in which you said it.

Lies! None of us are classy! We spend our spare time making dudes that spend there spare time diddling with dead bodies

Now THAT'S a forum quote.

 

[GDD]

After Yorga wrote that post I have now spent an hour looking at warseer, and dakka for pictures...

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Maybe I'm getting old as so much just makes me want to get into a lore debate on this thread and start throwing down page numbers of sources, having to keep myself away. Lol ;-)

Vlad was always a better leader, fighter and tactician over mannfred, just he was a better wizard but the rules never accurately reflected the lore all in the name of balence.

For the most part I love the new models, not too keen or headdresses or morghiests but with those exceptions, all is good.

In the timeline GDD Nagash was alive but regaining his power, it's likely they will say mannfred brough him back but in honesty, looks more like a jump start to his batteries.
The concept of Nagash needing another to raise him is laughable.


Mailsteen you are right on the lore there but remember the reason Mannfred backed off was because Volkmar was in the north, gave a bit tough talk to mannfred to act as a poor plot device so that the empire ANC it's heroes with their wounded leaders and shattered armies would not be crushed by a giant newly inflated by dead chaos and empire force.
So with that being the case it can be assumed that it may now in fact be glad in the north which could mean that Vlad could be plotting to downfall of mannfred and to get rid of Nagash once more, remember nefrata and arkan don't like him either but they have to serve him, Vlad learned how to free himself of that and spent centuries separating the carstein ring and eye of Nagash artifact a in addition to helping defend the empire from shaven by teaching others necromancy.
Consider Vlad on the side of the empire, he is the only of the vampire counts who is not evil and has actually went out of his way to protect people and his mortal friends, the one who fell in love with a mortal woman, who offered mercy in the time of three emperors when he staked his own claim, he is the most human of them and I would love to see that angel played out.

 

[Banat]

I completely disagree with you over-romanticised view of Vlad. I have yet to read the Vampire Wars trilogy so perhaps that may change.... But an angel? No, I think not. During the first battle where he revealed himself to have command of the undead, his Sylvanian troops were ambushed by enemies and he summoned his necromantic magic. The troops were freaked out but his Sylvanian honour guard stood fast and shouted the men onto victory. After winning against his enemies, he then turned his undead troops on his living troops and killed them all anyway, and proceeded to raise them again. Hardly angelic. True Sylvania prospered under his iron grip for 200 years but then Germany prospered under Hitler for much of his rule prior to the outbreak of WWII.

 

[Melle]

So someone posted a photocopy of rules for the upcoming Lore Of Undeath deck Every wizard in the Warhammer World can take that Lore. It occurred to me that it would be a cool idea to make a Shun-Tuk army based off of Terry Goodkind's latest book in his Richard and Kahlan series. Use Savage Orcs with a white paint scheme and skull like face paint. Have them lead by shamen that have Occult Powers (Read: Lore of Undeath). I hope the spells are cool because I never was impressed with Waaagh Spells.

Baron samedi has done almost that but with undead here on carpe

 

[SoulSeeker]

That's just the thing, though. Maybe I'm just a bit older than you in this hobby, but to me the return of Nagash is the 'good old fluff', and the 'good old divisions' were, to me, ever an arbitrary and unwelcome intrusion that had the effect of elevating the pop culture icons of vampires and mummies above the true core of what was distinctive about the undead in the Warhammer World, the liches and necromancers, the mad, decrepit sorcerers of death, and chief among them Nagash.

Maybe you are older in the hobby, I started in fourth edition, my first army book was Undead. When I said I preferred the old divisions, I perhaps was a bit vague. I meant more a good guys/bad guys division. Putting the two books into one doesn't really bother me. I find it harder swallow things like dwarfs raising skeletons to fight for them, elves using zombies, it's the way 40k went and it doesn't appeal to me. I realise that many like the idea of "use whatever you want with whichever army you like" - though why you need a book to tell you this I have never understood, if this appeals just throw all your toys on to a board and start playing! No, I feel that this kind of thing does not enrich the universe, it merely waters it down. Each race is unique, with different strengths and weaknesses, and that's part of the beauty of the game. The challenge of being a dwarf player is to overcome your lack of magic and speed, for elves how to overcome your basic lack of toughness and armour, etc. etc. The gaps in your armoury, now you can just fill in with troops from other forces. But most of all, it just doesn't sit right with me that centuries old enemies will suddenly forget all that and summon away. The Storm of magic was a bit dumb like this, I see no difference. As I said, I'm happy for those excited, but it's not for me. Plus I can get way more toys for the same outlay from others and that's what I do these days.

 

[Mr Saturday]

When I first saw the blurry pic of Nagash a couple of days ago, I thought 'Oh no, they've ballsed it up again.' It was depressing. Since then I've seen the better pics, and I have to say, I changed my mind. The floating thing is fantastic. The helmet took me the longest to come around to, but right now I'm digging the new model. The aesthetic of the new models seems separate from both TK and VC, while being an amalgam of both. I guess that's the point. The morghasts I'm not too sure on yet, they seem a bit He-Man to me right now, but I'm willing to wait to see them up close. I love the new hosts. Finally.

I've been playing since 3rd ed, and I'm pretty excited for the new book. It seems only right and proper for Nagash to get an entire army book all to himself. We've waited long enough for the return of him in the mountain. The new undead legions list has me filled with curiosity, but I imagine it'll be a combined TK/VC with bits added on list. Maybe I'll paint those old 3rd ed skeleton bowmen after all. I'm not loving the 'everyone gets undead' thing, though flavour units like the cursed company would be nice to see fighting beside the empire. Overall though, exciting times. I'll be stuck into those two books first chance I get. Are the cards limited, I wonder.

It's probably all here, but I put together what information there is on my blog.

 

[Dakaar]

I too started playing back in 4th edition, but havent played in a while. Ive been periodically looking to get back into and watching the forums for a few years, but couldnt justify it as things got worse and ridiculous price hike on ridiculous price hike made restarting less and less appealing (sold all my old figures when i stopped playing years ago).

I am excited to see the return of nagash and how everything unfolds. Im not overly keen on any of the figures except the spirit host, though nagash and the 3 hero kit isnt bad, i especially dislike the flying and god of hats motifs they have gone for.

From the rules page one thing about nagash bothers me, any lowly necromancer (1 per army) can have the ability to raise skeletons beyond starting size, but nagash the supreme lord of the dead cannot...

 

[robtion]

I am glad to see mostly excitement and positivity in this thread. We can be a cynical bunch at times

Despite that, I have to agree with @SoulSeeker that it seems weird for other armies to be raising undead. Not a fan if that is the case o_o

As for the models there are a lot of cool elements to all of them and with conversion I think they could look good but they really seem to have a lot of 40k influence, similar to the new WE treeman. Not really my particular taste but I am sure people will do great things with them.

 

[Bullhax]

We just have to wait and see what reason, if any GW gives for other armies to use the lore of undeath, hopefully they will go beyond "it takes a truly desperate wizard/leader/etc. to dabble into the dark arts..."

I agree that the Nagash model is the right mix of TK and VC, too me they nailed the model, the price, not so much though.!

 

[lord marcus]

The price on Nagash is ridiculous, but also the book duet. I also dislike the armor on Nagash, but generally only the legs. torso up is cool. The legs look like Nagash went to a dark eldar fetish convention on his way back to unlife.