What do you think Official 50% Lords/Heroes means to the game?
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50% Lords and Heros is now the rule for Warhammer.
Not just an End Times thing!
Discuss!
50% Lords and Heros is now the rule for Warhammer.
Not just an End Times thing!
Discuss!
I like it, the end tile to me was clearly written with the intent to be generally used, but was discarded by most as a mere update.
Now we're on the same page.
I like it a lot. Although facing dual GUO's and other nasty lords are a bit daunting.
Now we're on the same page.
I like it a lot. Although facing dual GUO's and other nasty lords are a bit daunting.
Also, I like it how there are no erratas to Nagash, other than a scenario's special rules.
So what about Sulekhim - The Hand of Dust permanent effect? (doesn't seem like the kind of thing GW allow in magic)
or... the Books of Nagash (will he lose all his spells if it is destroyed?)
So what about Sulekhim - The Hand of Dust permanent effect? (doesn't seem like the kind of thing GW allow in magic)
or... the Books of Nagash (will he lose all his spells if it is destroyed?)
I'll scoot this over to the tactics section.
Thread moved to The Teachings of Abhorash
Edit: And personally I'm a bit split over it. It will take away the aspect of making impactful choices between available lord builds, for one.
Thread moved to The Teachings of AbhorashEdit: And personally I'm a bit split over it. It will take away the aspect of making impactful choices between available lord builds, for one.
So.... Hero hammer is back. Honestly I kinda missed it as more army builds do become available.
What I see happening in the tournament scene is more Swedish Comp tournaments and more scenarios running fortitude. With that said look on the bright side at least flying high is not back lol.
I see more things like units of 6 juggernaut heroes for example.
Personally, for my vamps I will most certainly be playing around with my dual engine death council build. Now that character support is not a problem.
And for the tournaments not limiting special characters remember Nagash can go into a 2k pt list. I have already playtested this and short of anything other than a highly unlikely and unlucky void suck you absolutely dominate.
What I see happening in the tournament scene is more Swedish Comp tournaments and more scenarios running fortitude. With that said look on the bright side at least flying high is not back lol.
I see more things like units of 6 juggernaut heroes for example.
Personally, for my vamps I will most certainly be playing around with my dual engine death council build. Now that character support is not a problem.
And for the tournaments not limiting special characters remember Nagash can go into a 2k pt list. I have already playtested this and short of anything other than a highly unlikely and unlucky void suck you absolutely dominate.
Its not hero hammer, at least not like it was. You can't fly up above the battlefield and lob down spells without being touched. Step up rule means even if you lay into units in CC, they can strike back, and that can be alot of poison, great weapons to have to 4+ save against. Static combat res for large units will help counter the killy uber heroes/lords. You can no longer just engage a unit and delete it like you could in the old Herohammer days. All I hear is HeroHammer and no details. No offense, but did you watch the vid or just read the title? Apologies if you did watch, but your reply makes me think maybe not 
If you think its herohammer still, even so, why do you think thats a bad thing? I personally see all those characters as a liability, especially those that can't hide in units. Cannons and poison shooting will remove them by turn 2, 3 latest in most cases.
If you think its herohammer still, even so, why do you think thats a bad thing? I personally see all those characters as a liability, especially those that can't hide in units. Cannons and poison shooting will remove them by turn 2, 3 latest in most cases.
I always kind of had a special place for Herohammer in my heart but I can also see the long term impact this might have and I am not sure the established competitive players will embrace it. o.o So many times I wanted to squeeze 30% out of my Lord choices...now I can. 
No way I see the ETC embrace this. But then I don't play in an ETC environment.
No way I see the ETC embrace this. But then I don't play in an ETC environment.
Triple Daemon Princes and Double Slaan knocking on your door. The Slaan I don't really mind since lizzies honestly have one strong army build and could use a little something to break the monotony but the DP's could spell trouble for a lot of armies.
I'm intrigued as to what Dark Elves will do since they really only need so many units in their army for the guerilla warfare strategy. I can imagine dual dreadlords flying around with Morathi.
It will be interesting to see what people come up with , although honestly, I feel that two DP's will be the most we see in competitive lists.
I'm intrigued as to what Dark Elves will do since they really only need so many units in their army for the guerilla warfare strategy. I can imagine dual dreadlords flying around with Morathi.
It will be interesting to see what people come up with , although honestly, I feel that two DP's will be the most we see in competitive lists.
Certainly with Vampire Counts getting the balance between your 50% Lords/Heroes, paying your core tax and still having enough left in special to support your Lords/Heroes is a process of fine tuning. Two blender lords flying around the battlefield won't be too amazing if there's no room for specials/rares to build up target saturation, they'll just get shot up.
It would be interesting to try though... in 2.5k... 1000pts of dual Blender and 250pts of Master Necro...
It would be interesting to try though... in 2.5k... 1000pts of dual Blender and 250pts of Master Necro...
Archamedius
Grave Guard
I bet you see comps like ETC go to 50% total between lords and heroes, so you could do 30/20 lord/hero or similar, such that overall you still can spend a max 50% on characters and the rest still on troops.
Infernal Skull
Wight King
I think it's fine. You used to be able to take 50% of your army as characters (25% Lords and 25% Heroes), now you can take 50% characters and not worry about running over the allowance of one of the other.
If someone really wants to tie up half their points in 3 Lord models, go for it.
If someone really wants to tie up half their points in 3 Lord models, go for it.
Lord Elpus
Ghoul
I have no problem with it, if someone takes an uber hero, they're missing out on other choices, as someone that also plays Orcs and Goblins, having Wurzag turning Archaon into a Squig is great fun. Either that or I fanatic them to death. I would rather bulk up on troops and other choices to be honest.
I fielded my Zombie Dragon Vampire Lord for the first time last game.
It was awesome
!
Sure, I hated how everyone just kept poking at the Dragon instead of the Vampire on top of it, but now I see why the Dragon is T6 and not so easy to wound, even with Str 5.
Flying all around, causing havoc and melting challengers was very nice (I also took some Morghasts to counter possible Instability problems, but never happened!)
He and Vlad (my brother's army) took down an entire unit of Khorne Warriors (literally just the two of them, since Vlad lost all his skeletons to a bunch of Skullcrushers, then ended up breaking them when he was left alone, with no pesky weak core to bleed CR).
That's actually all I needed, the opportunity to field my deadliest guy with all I can/want
Gonna try dual Coven Thrones next game, see how that ends, haha.
It was awesome
!Sure, I hated how everyone just kept poking at the Dragon instead of the Vampire on top of it, but now I see why the Dragon is T6 and not so easy to wound, even with Str 5.
Flying all around, causing havoc and melting challengers was very nice (I also took some Morghasts to counter possible Instability problems, but never happened!)
He and Vlad (my brother's army) took down an entire unit of Khorne Warriors (literally just the two of them, since Vlad lost all his skeletons to a bunch of Skullcrushers, then ended up breaking them when he was left alone, with no pesky weak core to bleed CR).
That's actually all I needed, the opportunity to field my deadliest guy with all I can/want
Gonna try dual Coven Thrones next game, see how that ends, haha.
As I said on another post, I think it is awesome. We (as VC / UL ) always need to trim the list in order to fit this or that (specially Rares and Characters, due to our overabundance of necromancers that we love).
With End Times, we get to tool our characters so they can perform as intended, not as "best as they can because we're trying to squeeze them into a list".
Also, keeping in mind Nagash, we have twice as many opportunities now, for we can field full-on Death magic, or try a full-summoning list, or maybe go all Shadow lore with arcane objects...
I see much more interesting lists, other than the classical builds, like the Black Knight Blender-bus can become on par with, say... a Monster madness, made of Necroxphinx, Necrotects and Mortis Engines... don't know yet, but at least we can explore.
I for one will always field my Sacrificial necromancer, with the Forbidden Rod. Or (as the array of spells becomes much more rich), the book of Arkhan caddy, since I want to try other lores, before I return to LoV (because I love it, now I realize it!). I'll always have room for that Wight King with a BSB (because I love BSB, I don't care they do half their jobs with Undead!) or, have a second mini-blender, instead of having to fill the space with a half-made Unit that doesn't quite do the job I'm hoping for (like... get 5 Hexwraiths because they are the best I can fit into the last of my list).
Last, Zombie Dragons ARE sucky.. just not as sucky as we thought. They're kinda cool actually!
With End Times, we get to tool our characters so they can perform as intended, not as "best as they can because we're trying to squeeze them into a list".
Also, keeping in mind Nagash, we have twice as many opportunities now, for we can field full-on Death magic, or try a full-summoning list, or maybe go all Shadow lore with arcane objects...
I see much more interesting lists, other than the classical builds, like the Black Knight Blender-bus can become on par with, say... a Monster madness, made of Necroxphinx, Necrotects and Mortis Engines... don't know yet, but at least we can explore.
I for one will always field my Sacrificial necromancer, with the Forbidden Rod. Or (as the array of spells becomes much more rich), the book of Arkhan caddy, since I want to try other lores, before I return to LoV (because I love it, now I realize it!). I'll always have room for that Wight King with a BSB (because I love BSB, I don't care they do half their jobs with Undead!) or, have a second mini-blender, instead of having to fill the space with a half-made Unit that doesn't quite do the job I'm hoping for (like... get 5 Hexwraiths because they are the best I can fit into the last of my list).
Last, Zombie Dragons ARE sucky.. just not as sucky as we thought. They're kinda cool actually!
I can´t really say that I like the change i the FaQ, it really might be the End of Times for GW, but only time will tell.
Sadly they did not add the more intressting rules from the End of times, like that the Tomb Kings kan march and such, so I still think that End of Times will only be viewed as some kind of expansion (like Storm of Magic)
Sadly they did not add the more intressting rules from the End of times, like that the Tomb Kings kan march and such, so I still think that End of Times will only be viewed as some kind of expansion (like Storm of Magic)
Lord Elpus
Ghoul
Well Khaz, the army rules are stated that they can be used in any game of warhammer not just EoT, so people viewing it as just an expansion and therefore not "legal" need to think again. although it does say rules supplement, that is the exact same wording on the back of all Wfb Army books.
Ive seen this come up several times here and there, and I dont get where this is coming from.
Rules for marching and crumbling are changed in an Undead Legion list. Not in VC or TK.
Sure you can take an Undead Legion army consisting entirely from the TK book, but its still a ' new' army, not a TK army
I'm not sure that it's that big of a change since as some others have pointed out, it is mostly about getting your lords to 30% so you don't cut too much fat there. Most armylists need 25% in both Special and Rare to work and with a mandatory 25% in core it leaves 25% to characters... so what it essentially does is make the characters more flexible across the Heroes/Lords distinction.
I'm glad they made they change since I'm a lizard player... and honestly, the best thing about Lizardmen is their character builds (Skink Chiefs, Scar-Vets, Oldbloods, Slaans and Skink Priest all rock!).
I'm glad they made they change since I'm a lizard player... and honestly, the best thing about Lizardmen is their character builds (Skink Chiefs, Scar-Vets, Oldbloods, Slaans and Skink Priest all rock!).