What unit would you add to the VC army book?

[Uziel]

I have to ask, apart from Stevan Savile's Von Carstein triology, where are Vampire troops from the other bloodlines mentioned, especially infantry?

I do hold the view that the 8.ed book could benefit from being more vampire influenced (champion lvl vampires), but not at the expense of the identity of the various bloodlines. Some quick reasons why:

- The Von Carstens are the only ones with a stable enough power base to have anything rsembling the numbers needed to have a vampire-only elite type infantry unit.

- The Strigoi are not a good fit for this, as they are very reclusive in nature (being hunted by just about everybody, including the other bloodlines), preferring to keep away from larger population centers etc.

-The Blood Dragons are, with a small % of exceptions, ultimately knights, following knightly ideals etc. There has not to my knowledge ever been a unit of Blood Dragon infantry at least, and creating one would require the kind of domain that the Von Carsteins possesses. Besides, why woudln't they be mounted, if they were knights before they were re-born?

-Necrarchs. I honestly don't feel much of a need to explain why these guys make a poor "elite infantry" option. Anyone with any notion of what the term Necrarch means, know that this is not likely to exist at all.

-That leaves the Lahmians, the "inexperienced" warriors, more likely to take advantage of an opportunity against one-another in the heat of battle, than to truly focus on their foes. They would most likely also be surrounded by their mortal henchmen for protection (at least if the novels I have read is anything to go by). The only thing that I see being in favor of a Lahmian elite infantry regiment, is their numbers to be honest...

I might off course have missed something as far as novels go etc, considering the large number of GW books on the market, but as far as I know at this very moment, only the Von Carsteins have ever had something like a pure "vampire Infantry" regiment... If I'm wrong, I'm very interested in any evidence thereof.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

You see the vampire foot troops in the charge against Altdorf I believe when commanded by Vlad during the Siege, also you have Posner and his troops as well.
If you recall also the ball where his guests were killed by those of the aristocracy who were vampire he was not exactly short in vampires.

Now going to the new Ulrika book, they are used as foot troops, scouts and you name it, in that book there is well in excess of over a few hundred and it mentions as much at a few parts, when in the Von Carstein camp, when in the Lahmian secret meeting, when in the battle as they were about to attack the Emperor whilst he was bedding down for the night in a castle on his way to Nuln I believe.
The warriors in that book however were very experienced, you had full plate female knights, scouts, huge brawlers, spell slingers, you name it.


So thats 2 blood lines straight off the bat.
Strigoi and Necrach I would also agree but I can see Blood Dragons siring many great warriors over the years, hell the Blood Knights themselves were created in a single night and elite vampire troop is just what they are, just mounted but otherwise right on the money.

Now Necrachs as I was saying, they tend to only turn others for use as their lab assistants and then end up killing each other at some point, the strigoi don't like siring and I recall reading as much as they don't want others to suffer as they do.

Now Blood Dragons are not always mounted, you get Bretonian Lords and hero's on foot, empire generals and what not on foot also, they do not live on a horse and unless on a field of battle where it is wide open they will not use their horse same as anyone else.
There could also be other reasons, perhaps they are a squire to their sire, the list is almost infinite.

As I said with the Lahmians, read their last book mate, they have been totally changed, huge armies of the undead fighting one another in a woods, you name it.
Them being nothing but spys and manipulating others are long gone, they can get their hands dirty if they wish.

Now at the moment there is 2 bloodlines that can do this but with Blood Dragons they should not have to much trouble as they are currently the most numerous vampires we can add to our army.

 

[Uziel]

But... Those are Von Carsteins, the only good exception I already mentioned. Don't see your point, as we both agree here for all intents and purposes.

Yes, you had a lot of various Lahmian vampiress at that battle (and they were there for a pretty unique and desperate reason), but from the way I understood it, they were there with their respective retinues, and I distinctly recall that in the fighting description, they were described as inexperienced even fighting any kind of battle in the traditional fashion... just saying that this incredibly rare event, does not necessarily provide a good reason as to why one should ever have a Lahmia elite infantry type unit on its own..

Seems we basically agree on the Strigoi and Necrarchs though (and the Von Carsteins as well).

Read what I said again on Blood Dragons. Never said they were always mounted, but I think you have to agree that the vast majority of them are/would be, and the odd one on foot would be so rare that it would make a regiment of them on foot more than a little odd...

I have recently read he last Ulrika book btw, and to be honest, I don't see that much of an overall change as far as the Lahmians go. Sure, there were the odd lahmians with armour, weapons etc, but what did you expect? There are probably humans with repeating crossbows, throwing weapons,short bows, etc etc out there as well, but that doens't automatically mean that it makes the army book itself. Army books are not by their nature made to represent the most "out-there" elements we are ever presented with.
Just saying that there are probably lots of "incidents" one can have from various warhammer lore, that would never make it into an army book for balance reasons. The Dwarfs vs. Ogre battle known as the "Battle of a hundred Cannons2 being the first one that springs to mind.

Not looking to start an argument here DDM (since we both know that will never end), but I have seen other suggesting the same idea with 5 various elite vampire infantry units on other threads, and I quite frankly think it is a terrible one from pure balance reasons as well... Unbreakable-fear causing warriors with stats and abilities to make a chaos warrior wet himself, whom can also be raised to fight again is not a good idea to have in easy to have, "cheap" and large numbers...
I'm sure that never loosing on the grounds of selecting the superior army has its appeal to many, but I for one am happy that GW has shunned away from going down that path with our beloved VC army.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Yes I do agree but where we differ is on Lahmia.
Due to their most recent book this perception has been shattered, now I am more than willing to argue the point.
You had Hundred of vampire on each side doing battle that formed a large percentage of its numbers, may only be 5% but in a undead army that is huge.
In the books they fought in groups yes but they only had a giant horde, there were no units being directed but cavalry, everything else was just huge numbers which in fairness we have to march our rank and file in neat ranks in our battles but that also does not fit the lore.
Now the argument is that they have the numbers to support this, not that they walked in perfect rank because nothing in that book did anything resembling a perfect rank that was not human.

Blood Dragons from their reputation as knights duelists etc would typically be mounted but that all depends on what they were at the time of turning.
Blood Knights makes everyone thing that Blood Dragons are all mounted knights but the sire of that particular bloodline was the Captain of the Palace Guard and had nothing to do with horses, all depends on the person who is turned though I will agree that the meat of great warriors ride on horse back to separate themselves from the rabble and are commonly knights in most cases when you look at the human races.

But the point was they were knights in some cases and strong fighters, something that has been almost exclusively dominated by blood dragons and von carstein in regards to fighting, strigoi fight sure but hardly with weapons, more often than not they really on their own body which is a weapon in itself.

Army books only cover the most common things and a few big monsters to make GW marketing happy, we all know that.
But you do get offshoots, like of the empire heraldry book with all the specialist units for instance, we are always seeing something new and thats what I like, I am all for the new because it does not tamper with the lore of old.

I more than recall, I was going to reply to the old one but then get stuck on a 12 hour a day 6 day long week and I could not be bothered by the end of it, I still argue the point though and I don't think we will ever agree on that but lets try and find the middle ground for this argument.
5 types won't do, 3 I can see however.
Perhaps a unit number cap though is in order... Say 20 sounds reasonable and make them a rare choice.
Well stat wise they would not be all that different from chaos warriors, same WS, wounds, armour, slightly faster at I6 (going with hand maidens stats there), same strength and toughness but raiseable yes each with their own bloodline ability for the unit not to unlike a chaos mark and 3 attacks each.
Its not game breaking but I am just thinking of the modeling kit and drooling.
To be honest what we all want in our army is more vampire, now if done correctly surely this can't be a bad thing?

 

[Uziel]

As I said, I do agree that we could use more vampires ("chamipion" lvl) in the list, to flavor it some more, especially if more of the old bloodline elements were brought back.

The problem with the 8.ed book (one of them at least), is that they've made vampires so generic, that only a very few elements of the old bloodlines does exist (at least in any meaningful way), with too much of a Von Carstein focus too it to really go into the background of the remaining bloodlines and find stuff to work with.
Yes, the Bloodlines now do exist again, but the army book alone far from does them any kind of justice, and gives nearly no in-dept information on them, leaving older players like you and me frustrated, while younger players don't necessarily have a clue what we are talking about, thinking that a nasty strigoi unit sounds like a grand idea. Who wouldn't want a unit of ferocious ass-kicking fiends like them as a unit on the table if winning was the most important thing?

The challenge, is to incorporate more vampires in the list, in a balanced way, and also one that builds on the bloodline fluff both you and I know well. This is hard to do based on the current 8.ed book, as they have not diversified the bloodlines enough, creating their own identities, strengths and weaknesses. This is one of the major reasons why I started the Bloodline Legacies project as well.

Btw, I do have a Von Carstein Rare unit in that list, but the list won't feature any other pure vampire units for balance/fluffrelated reasons. Infantry (with wolf changing abilities as in Steven Savile's triology).

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I completely agree, I miss the old bloodlines of 5th and 6th edition.
They only focus on Von Carstein as they are the most notable force of vampires who have directly fought the Empire, nearly every book is wrote from the empire point of view which goes a way to explain why it has painted all vampires as evil.

I see where you are coming from and it is easily doable if the rules and restrictions are in place.

We just need to see the others feature more again in the bloodlines in notable numbers, hell i still want vampire thralls back.

 

[Whisky Priest]

My idea for werewolves would be a light monstrous infantry:

M:7 ws:4 bs:0 s:4 t:4 w:2 I:4 a:3 ld:5
Frenzy, regen (6+), undead, swiftstride, slavering charge
Pts: 28 per model

Honestly though I always like the idea of human troops who chose to serve the vampire in life rather than death. Take empire state troops with -1 to ld and -2 points (no synergy for war priests and such) and no detachments.

Or I would make ghouls skirmishing.

In one of the old lists (6, I think), you had the option to create an 'army of sylvania' and bring in Imperial militia troops to represent levys from the Sylvanian peasantry.

I'd love to resurrect that, as I think it adds loads of character to the army. They don't have to be particularly good (use the bretonnian peasant militia and bowmen profiles), but they would give the vamps a bit of shootiness, infantry that don't need a vampire to march (but all the downsides of psychology) and, as I say, a bit of character.

 

[Uziel]

There are lots of units I'd like to see added or redone for the VC list, and in the Bloodline Legacies project I have done just that. This is offcourse, something I hope GW will do as well for the 9.ed in the future.

Here are some of the units added/changed:

-Vampires divided into 5 bloodlines, each with their own stats, special rules and with a few unique bloodline powers, in addition to a pool of generic ones. The bloodlines also have access to various magical lores for free, witout one having to resort to forbidden lore. General gets ION for free, so he doesn't have to select Lore of Vampires. Some Bloodline specific items for each of the five bloodlines as well, and there are one Lord and one Hero special character for each bloodline, in addition to Krell and Kemmler. Vampires are not unbreakable, but subject to breaking etc, and can join both undead or living units in the army. Vampires can never be healed or re-raised with IoN...

-Skeletons redone a bit. Better synergy with the Vampires. More options depending on bloodline. Free spears.

-Zombies changed. More dangerous, but also more unreliable.

-Ghouls changed. are now living, skirmishers, buest suited for flanking, and are much cheaper. They go for the easy kills, as they are supposed to.

-Blood Dragons have access to "Barrow Riders", Core Cavalry.

-Dire wolves are more flexible for thee Von Carsteins. Doom Wolf can lead pack on its own. Special Howling rule added.

-Sylvanian Militia added for the Von Carsteins. Missile unit. Fodder for Vamps.

-Fell Bats changed. Special rule which makes them harder to react too. Strigoi upgrade for nastier bats.

-Grave gaurd basically the same, but with a Von Carstein upgrade option. Drakenhof guard.

-Lahmian Minions added. Skirmishing unit, with colorful backgrounds. Skirmishers. Special deployment rules. May incorporate a champion lvl vampire.

-Necrarch abominations added. Basically, these monstrous infantry replaces the Crypt Horrors, which I wasn#t that happy about from a background standpoint. Some nifty upgrade options.

-Strigoi Court added. Better Ghouls. Banner option. Living. Represents more "civilized" ghouls..

-Vargheist changed a bit, mostly due to how Vampires work overall in the list.

-Blood Knights Changed. They are no Ws6, have a better defense vs non-magical attacks, 3 attacks, not frenzied...

-Bound Zombie Dragon added. Necrarch pet and experiment. Some deadly upgrades.

-Lahmian Handmaidens added. Protectors of the Lahmian Vampires.

-Skull Chukka added for the Von Carsteins. Going to war against the empire, with no way of tearing down a city wall is just foolish... Besides, they are present in the Von Carstein triology as well.

-Spirit Hosts changed. Now Rare option. Can negate Steadfast. A proper Leach attack.

-Sylvanian Vampire Brood Added. Inpired from Steven Savile's books. Infantry. Can change into wolves.

-Blood Dragon Warrior Hermits added. Rare choice. Other types of Blood Dragons, apart from just the knights. lone heroes.

-Von cCarsteins can have champion lvl vampires leading units of skeletons, grave guard, etc...

This is what I have so far, but there is more on the way. These are some of the changes I'd like to see obviously, but there is off course more as well. I hope GW brings back the flavour of the old army books in time, and dare to do some more drastic changes.

The project can be found here, for further study by those interested: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-The-Bloodline-Legacies-Army-List

 

[Count michael]

I would add Flesh Golems basically the Necrach version of the Varghiests and Crypt horrors though with actual 4+ regen not 5 or 6+ also have a Greater Flesh Golem a extremely hard monster which is very hard to kill, as I like the idea of a huge undead monster made from bodies of the slain shrugging off just about everything. Finally since the Blood Knight in me demands it make a Blood Knight Monstrous infantry like Varghiests and Crypt horrors give us Animated armor like in Castlevania http://castlevania.wikia.com/wiki/Animated_Armor I mean come on they totally suit the vampire count fluff, huge suits of armor possessed by poltergeists patrolling the castles of vampire counts plus would look awesome, don't know what stats would be but would be cool. I mean come on GW has so much different options to look for ideas for new units I mean Castlevania has so much awesome monsters its not funny why not get a few ideas from them.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

Cannons, crewed by Grave Guard- Drakenhof castle must have some guns left on the ramparts from the Empire days... Right? erv:

 

[Whisky Priest]

The problem is that WFB has been steadily dumbed down over the years, and what we have now is very much a lowest common denominator army list, and as such is thoroughly generic. The only real 'character' units with anything to do with bloodlines we have now are the Blood Knights and the Strigoi Ghoul King. And in a bloodlines scenario, they would NOT work with each other.

Its really a Sylvania army list - and you can't even do a proper one of those as you don't have access to the peasant militia that would be a part of a proper sylvanian army.

GW aren't going to do a bloodlines list, so if we want it - we need to do it ourselves...........

That said, as army lists go, for a generic old world undead list its a pretty decent effort as it is.

 

[Count Darvaleth]

Could... could we have, umm, some, well I guess... what I mean to say is...

GIVE US ARCHERS!

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

There are lots of units I'd like to see added or redone for the VC list, and in the Bloodline Legacies project I have done just that. This is offcourse, something I hope GW will do as well for the 9.ed in the future.

Here are some of the units added/changed:

-Vampires divided into 5 bloodlines, each with their own stats, special rules and with a few unique bloodline powers, in addition to a pool of generic ones. The bloodlines also have access to various magical lores for free, witout one having to resort to forbidden lore. General gets ION for free, so he doesn't have to select Lore of Vampires. Some Bloodline specific items for each of the five bloodlines as well, and there are one Lord and one Hero special character for each bloodline, in addition to Krell and Kemmler. Vampires are not unbreakable, but subject to breaking etc, and can join both undead or living units in the army. Vampires can never be healed or re-raised with IoN...

-Skeletons redone a bit. Better synergy with the Vampires. More options depending on bloodline. Free spears.

-Zombies changed. More dangerous, but also more unreliable.

-Ghouls changed. are now living, skirmishers, buest suited for flanking, and are much cheaper. They go for the easy kills, as they are supposed to.

-Blood Dragons have access to "Barrow Riders", Core Cavalry.

-Dire wolves are more flexible for thee Von Carsteins. Doom Wolf can lead pack on its own. Special Howling rule added.

-Sylvanian Militia added for the Von Carsteins. Missile unit. Fodder for Vamps.

-Fell Bats changed. Special rule which makes them harder to react too. Strigoi upgrade for nastier bats.

-Grave gaurd basically the same, but with a Von Carstein upgrade option. Drakenhof guard.

-Lahmian Minions added. Skirmishing unit, with colorful backgrounds. Skirmishers. Special deployment rules. May incorporate a champion lvl vampire.

-Necrarch abominations added. Basically, these monstrous infantry replaces the Crypt Horrors, which I wasn#t that happy about from a background standpoint. Some nifty upgrade options.

-Strigoi Court added. Better Ghouls. Banner option. Living. Represents more "civilized" ghouls..

-Vargheist changed a bit, mostly due to how Vampires work overall in the list.

-Blood Knights Changed. They are no Ws6, have a better defense vs non-magical attacks, 3 attacks, not frenzied...

-Bound Zombie Dragon added. Necrarch pet and experiment. Some deadly upgrades.

-Lahmian Handmaidens added. Protectors of the Lahmian Vampires.

-Skull Chukka added for the Von Carsteins. Going to war against the empire, with no way of tearing down a city wall is just foolish... Besides, they are present in the Von Carstein triology as well.

-Spirit Hosts changed. Now Rare option. Can negate Steadfast. A proper Leach attack.

-Sylvanian Vampire Brood Added. Inpired from Steven Savile's books. Infantry. Can change into wolves.

-Blood Dragon Warrior Hermits added. Rare choice. Other types of Blood Dragons, apart from just the knights. lone heroes.

-Von cCarsteins can have champion lvl vampires leading units of skeletons, grave guard, etc...

This is what I have so far, but there is more on the way. These are some of the changes I'd like to see obviously, but there is off course more as well. I hope GW brings back the flavour of the old army books in time, and dare to do some more drastic changes.

The project can be found here, for further study by those interested: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-The-Bloodline-Legacies-Army-List

Kinda forgot about this thread, the new Skyrim DLC distracted me.

Now I like allot of what you have said mate and I would love to see it in a official book with the exception of the ghouls being skirmishers (as I just like hordes, I know they are not meant to act like this) and vampires not being able to heal, if they gave us our standard attacks as is and nominated one of those to be a feeding attack which we can regain a wound on if a successful wound is caused or some play/ variation on that I would be happy as that is how they normally heal in battle.


Now when GW do the Undead campaign book which is rumored to be a forge world creation I think we will get exactly what we want, look at the chaos dwarfs and empire at how they profited, it can only mean good things ahead.

 

[Shadespyre]

I think VC now have as much choice and range of units as any army, with the exception of no missile fire, but I'm happy with that, it's part of the style of the army now and keeps them distinct from the TK too.

There's lots of cool stuff that COULD be added, there are some fun suggestions in this thread. The one thing I'd like is to switch the ghouls back to cowardly living skirmishers, or at least restore that as an option. Ghoul-hording detracts from our traditional image of hordes of skellies and zombies.

Some fun ghoul ideas:

Basic: count as skirmishers
Option: to take them as scouts, ambushers or dwarf miners / skaven tunnellers to represent their use of catacombs and tunnels (not sure which option is fluffiest)
Option: to run them as rank and file IF accompanied by a ghoul king / vampire or Crypt horrors. Perhaps allow CH as a champion, or mixed units like Skinks/Kroxigors

As for Bloodline specific units, I don't really see the need. Vamps could be done with a Bloodline Vampiric Power option, perhaps giving you a set package of powers / statline changes, but to be honest it can all be done with the book as is. Adding half a dozen or more special characters and extra options would make the Army Book a bit unwieldly, like the current WoC one.

 

[Uziel]

There are lots of units I'd like to see added or redone for the VC list, and in the Bloodline Legacies project I have done just that. This is offcourse, something I hope GW will do as well for the 9.ed in the future.

Here are some of the units added/changed:

-Vampires divided into 5 bloodlines, each with their own stats, special rules and with a few unique bloodline powers, in addition to a pool of generic ones. The bloodlines also have access to various magical lores for free, witout one having to resort to forbidden lore. General gets ION for free, so he doesn't have to select Lore of Vampires. Some Bloodline specific items for each of the five bloodlines as well, and there are one Lord and one Hero special character for each bloodline, in addition to Krell and Kemmler. Vampires are not unbreakable, but subject to breaking etc, and can join both undead or living units in the army. Vampires can never be healed or re-raised with IoN...

-Skeletons redone a bit. Better synergy with the Vampires. More options depending on bloodline. Free spears.

-Zombies changed. More dangerous, but also more unreliable.

-Ghouls changed. are now living, skirmishers, buest suited for flanking, and are much cheaper. They go for the easy kills, as they are supposed to.

-Blood Dragons have access to "Barrow Riders", Core Cavalry.

-Dire wolves are more flexible for thee Von Carsteins. Doom Wolf can lead pack on its own. Special Howling rule added.

-Sylvanian Militia added for the Von Carsteins. Missile unit. Fodder for Vamps.

-Fell Bats changed. Special rule which makes them harder to react too. Strigoi upgrade for nastier bats.

-Grave gaurd basically the same, but with a Von Carstein upgrade option. Drakenhof guard.

-Lahmian Minions added. Skirmishing unit, with colorful backgrounds. Skirmishers. Special deployment rules. May incorporate a champion lvl vampire.

-Necrarch abominations added. Basically, these monstrous infantry replaces the Crypt Horrors, which I wasn#t that happy about from a background standpoint. Some nifty upgrade options.

-Strigoi Court added. Better Ghouls. Banner option. Living. Represents more "civilized" ghouls..

-Vargheist changed a bit, mostly due to how Vampires work overall in the list.

-Blood Knights Changed. They are no Ws6, have a better defense vs non-magical attacks, 3 attacks, not frenzied...

-Bound Zombie Dragon added. Necrarch pet and experiment. Some deadly upgrades.

-Lahmian Handmaidens added. Protectors of the Lahmian Vampires.

-Skull Chukka added for the Von Carsteins. Going to war against the empire, with no way of tearing down a city wall is just foolish... Besides, they are present in the Von Carstein triology as well.

-Spirit Hosts changed. Now Rare option. Can negate Steadfast. A proper Leach attack.

-Sylvanian Vampire Brood Added. Inpired from Steven Savile's books. Infantry. Can change into wolves.

-Blood Dragon Warrior Hermits added. Rare choice. Other types of Blood Dragons, apart from just the knights. lone heroes.

-Von cCarsteins can have champion lvl vampires leading units of skeletons, grave guard, etc...

This is what I have so far, but there is more on the way. These are some of the changes I'd like to see obviously, but there is off course more as well. I hope GW brings back the flavour of the old army books in time, and dare to do some more drastic changes.

The project can be found here, for further study by those interested: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-The-Bloodline-Legacies-Army-List

Kinda forgot about this thread, the new Skyrim DLC distracted me.

Now I like allot of what you have said mate and I would love to see it in a official book with the exception of the ghouls being skirmishers (as I just like hordes, I know they are not meant to act like this) and vampires not being able to heal, if they gave us our standard attacks as is and nominated one of those to be a feeding attack which we can regain a wound on if a successful wound is caused or some play/ variation on that I would be happy as that is how they normally heal in battle.


Now when GW do the Undead campaign book which is rumored to be a forge world creation I think we will get exactly what we want, look at the chaos dwarfs and empire at how they profited, it can only mean good things ahead.

Well, this is embarrassing... I listed Ghouls as Skirmishers, which is actually NOT what I have done for the Bloodline Legacies Project.. It's been a while since I did the goulos, and I just remembered wrong.
Yes, they are a proper cheap horde unit, but designed so that they will not compete with the skellies, zombies and gg for being the main frontline unit, rather they are designed to support these units by being good at flanking etc.. They are living however...

The undead campaign book might be interesting indeed though

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

There are lots of units I'd like to see added or redone for the VC list, and in the Bloodline Legacies project I have done just that. This is offcourse, something I hope GW will do as well for the 9.ed in the future.

Here are some of the units added/changed:

-Vampires divided into 5 bloodlines, each with their own stats, special rules and with a few unique bloodline powers, in addition to a pool of generic ones. The bloodlines also have access to various magical lores for free, witout one having to resort to forbidden lore. General gets ION for free, so he doesn't have to select Lore of Vampires. Some Bloodline specific items for each of the five bloodlines as well, and there are one Lord and one Hero special character for each bloodline, in addition to Krell and Kemmler. Vampires are not unbreakable, but subject to breaking etc, and can join both undead or living units in the army. Vampires can never be healed or re-raised with IoN...

-Skeletons redone a bit. Better synergy with the Vampires. More options depending on bloodline. Free spears.

-Zombies changed. More dangerous, but also more unreliable.

-Ghouls changed. are now living, skirmishers, buest suited for flanking, and are much cheaper. They go for the easy kills, as they are supposed to.

-Blood Dragons have access to "Barrow Riders", Core Cavalry.

-Dire wolves are more flexible for thee Von Carsteins. Doom Wolf can lead pack on its own. Special Howling rule added.

-Sylvanian Militia added for the Von Carsteins. Missile unit. Fodder for Vamps.

-Fell Bats changed. Special rule which makes them harder to react too. Strigoi upgrade for nastier bats.

-Grave gaurd basically the same, but with a Von Carstein upgrade option. Drakenhof guard.

-Lahmian Minions added. Skirmishing unit, with colorful backgrounds. Skirmishers. Special deployment rules. May incorporate a champion lvl vampire.

-Necrarch abominations added. Basically, these monstrous infantry replaces the Crypt Horrors, which I wasn#t that happy about from a background standpoint. Some nifty upgrade options.

-Strigoi Court added. Better Ghouls. Banner option. Living. Represents more "civilized" ghouls..

-Vargheist changed a bit, mostly due to how Vampires work overall in the list.

-Blood Knights Changed. They are no Ws6, have a better defense vs non-magical attacks, 3 attacks, not frenzied...

-Bound Zombie Dragon added. Necrarch pet and experiment. Some deadly upgrades.

-Lahmian Handmaidens added. Protectors of the Lahmian Vampires.

-Skull Chukka added for the Von Carsteins. Going to war against the empire, with no way of tearing down a city wall is just foolish... Besides, they are present in the Von Carstein triology as well.

-Spirit Hosts changed. Now Rare option. Can negate Steadfast. A proper Leach attack.

-Sylvanian Vampire Brood Added. Inpired from Steven Savile's books. Infantry. Can change into wolves.

-Blood Dragon Warrior Hermits added. Rare choice. Other types of Blood Dragons, apart from just the knights. lone heroes.

-Von cCarsteins can have champion lvl vampires leading units of skeletons, grave guard, etc...

This is what I have so far, but there is more on the way. These are some of the changes I'd like to see obviously, but there is off course more as well. I hope GW brings back the flavour of the old army books in time, and dare to do some more drastic changes.

The project can be found here, for further study by those interested: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-The-Bloodline-Legacies-Army-List

Kinda forgot about this thread, the new Skyrim DLC distracted me.

Now I like allot of what you have said mate and I would love to see it in a official book with the exception of the ghouls being skirmishers (as I just like hordes, I know they are not meant to act like this) and vampires not being able to heal, if they gave us our standard attacks as is and nominated one of those to be a feeding attack which we can regain a wound on if a successful wound is caused or some play/ variation on that I would be happy as that is how they normally heal in battle.


Now when GW do the Undead campaign book which is rumored to be a forge world creation I think we will get exactly what we want, look at the chaos dwarfs and empire at how they profited, it can only mean good things ahead.

Well, this is embarrassing... I listed Ghouls as Skirmishers, which is actually NOT what I have done for the Bloodline Legacies Project.. It's been a while since I did the goulos, and I just remembered wrong.
Yes, they are a proper cheap horde unit, but designed so that they will not compete with the skellies, zombies and gg for being the main frontline unit, rather they are designed to support these units by being good at flanking etc.. They are living however...

The undead campaign book might be interesting indeed though

Sounds good but have you done this by allowing them to march but giving them a unit cap so they can not become the main battle line core unit?

I can't wait for it, The excitement may cause me to have a accident if I have to wait much longer.
I think their is a new chaos one for Archeon first though but who know's, the undead may play a part.... Here hoping.