Which new Mortarch do you choose?
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I think the Nefarata model looks the best. I am still trying to justify what is basically buying a whole new army, but I at least want the Mortarch set.
Forgotten Heretic
Grave Guard
Actually, I'd say he's in the 'bargaining' phase, as he has agreed to return to the living world and serve Nagash only in the hope of eventually being able to restore Isabella.
The mount stats are combined with their stats.
I really can't believe how horrible Nefarata is. If her attacks ignored armor saves she might have been worth it, but she's just so bad in her current form.
I'm not sure about nef. With ASF and her combined monster statline plus a penalty to hit her, she's a beast in a challenge. A better save would have been appreciated, though, yeah.
The main thing that annoys me about Nef is the fluff, though. Every other Mortarch, even Krell, is portrayed as an unmitigated badass, but Nef?
spoiler warning!
The main thing that annoys me about Nef is the fluff, though. Every other Mortarch, even Krell, is portrayed as an unmitigated badass, but Nef?
spoiler warning!
For one, she sits on the location of a dwarf relic of unimagineable power for thousands of years, never once going to claim it. She sees events leading to Nagash's return, and neither helps nor acts to stop it, but rather finally gets off her butt to go get the dwarf thing in the hopes of offering it to Nagash as a gift and begging for his favor. Along the way, the queen of the vampires proves herself a military nincompoop, needing to be saved by Krell multiple times, and repeatedly failing to do anything worthwhile herself. She only gets one moment to shine in killing a rune priest, and even that she fails at, as the priest climbs out of the hole she threw him in and nearly crushes her army with a final blow to his anvil.
I'm not through chapters 4 or 5 yet, but from what I gathered in my brief skim through, the rest of her contribution to the campaign consists of getting beaten by Khalida in Lahmia's ruins.
But overall, the new fluff, at least what I've read so far, treats her not like the horror of ancient legend and near deific mother-of-all vampires that she is, but rather as a nuissance and incompetent. And that, IMO, is the one great disappointment that I have so far with the End Times book.
I'm not through chapters 4 or 5 yet, but from what I gathered in my brief skim through, the rest of her contribution to the campaign consists of getting beaten by Khalida in Lahmia's ruins.
But overall, the new fluff, at least what I've read so far, treats her not like the horror of ancient legend and near deific mother-of-all vampires that she is, but rather as a nuissance and incompetent. And that, IMO, is the one great disappointment that I have so far with the End Times book.
She does do some pretty badass things towards the end of the battle in Lahmia (don't think that counts as a spoiler), but yeah totally agree. Hopefully she ends up doing more in the later books. although I wouldn't bet on it...
As for rules, Mannfred takes it by a mile and I'm a Vampire fanboy so Arkhan doesn't quite do it enough for me to care. I intend to magnetise Neferata/Mannfred and play around with both, but it looks like she'll only come out in the most casual of games.
Dreadlegions
Ghoul
I have a battle against the new Mannfred coming up.
How exactly does his attack/wound thing work? Is it sacrificing dice for attacks, or can he also sacrifice attacks for dice?
Would be good to know what I'm in for...
How exactly does his attack/wound thing work? Is it sacrificing dice for attacks, or can he also sacrifice attacks for dice?
Would be good to know what I'm in for...
Lahmian vampires have always been noted for their infiltration and manipulative abilities, rather than their battle prowess. With that in mind I would have liked to have heard about her pulling strings with her super web of vampire lady spies in all sorts of high and low places across the empire, like maybe one of her handmaidens is having it off with Karl Franz, the other one was involved in encouraging Louencour's bastard son to rebel etc etc.
you do hear this in chapter 4:
It was Neferata through her handmaidens that helped Gelt create the ring around Sylvania by giving him a scroll, why we don't know.
I actually think it is a nice addition to her story, she considers every other race below her and get's punished for it, she has to learn the hard way that in the art of war her skills are rusty at best.
I actually think it is a nice addition to her story, she considers every other race below her and get's punished for it, she has to learn the hard way that in the art of war her skills are rusty at best.
Mioum
Crypt Horror
In Mannfred's magic phase, he can add or remove up to 3 power dices, gaining or loosing the same amount of attacks. So when not in combat, he can remove 3 attacks to gain 3 power dices. Those dices are only for Mannfred to use though. And remember, it's only with power dice, he can't use dispel dices for that. The effect last until his next magic phase.
As for the other Mortarchs, I will go with Arkhan personally, at least at first. His summoning power his awesome, he looks like he can heal himself pretty well in combat (should help mitigate the low protection), and I love the mini too!
But Neferata is also on my list to get eventually. Since my VC army is Lahmian themed, how could I not get the most Lahmian of them all! Not the best on the table, but a great mini!
Mannfred looks like a beast, so maybe I'll try him too at some point, or else I might just get the model to have all 3 bad mofo on their mount surrounding Nagash!
Same thing for Vlad, looks good on paper, but even if I don't play it, I'll probably get the model just to have him.
Krell is to opposite. I like the fluff of the guy and already have the model, but he's always been sub-par in the game, and being elevated to Mortarch didn't change that, and I doubt I'll play him.
Krells fluff is very cool, and he is described as nigh indestructible, a killing machine and a very good general. Non of which is covered very well in the rules.. I love the model too but haven't bought it because of the rules. ASL, being that expensive and with only a 4+ to protect him.. Only in a dual ME list would I consider taking him.
Neferata has some cool rules, she is the toughest of the lot in CC and will be very cool to get her in challenges with a 50/50 lord/hero allowance. Plus the D3 S5 hits on MMs, DD and hex spells is very good considering you can mix shadow, vamp and Death. And knowing you always can get miasma, IoN and spirit leech is pretty good especially considering two of the three comes with a D3 S5 extra wounds..
Neferata has some cool rules, she is the toughest of the lot in CC and will be very cool to get her in challenges with a 50/50 lord/hero allowance. Plus the D3 S5 hits on MMs, DD and hex spells is very good considering you can mix shadow, vamp and Death. And knowing you always can get miasma, IoN and spirit leech is pretty good especially considering two of the three comes with a D3 S5 extra wounds..
So after a very long time I finally got some paint on my mortarch model and played my first game. Its fairly easy to magnetize so you can swap out any of the three. I put Nef on it and tried out my first game.
On a side note, this model is kind of poorly designed. They got too cute with the design and as a result its very wobbly. make sure you glue both feet to the Spirit Host to keep it sturdy. Still, every time I move it there's a bit of wobbling that takes away from the glamor of having such a cool model. I bet a lot of people will make custom bases or add in some extra support.
Anyway .. on paper it was a perfect mathcup for Nef, I was up against mostly nurgle WoC with very nearly half the army in lords. Despite deploying most of my army after his, I won first turn.
Immediately I started blasting his Maggoth Lord Orghotts with spells. I got off a -3T Withering to start. Honestly I pulled back because I felt bad blowing it off the table before he could use it. He ended up charging 8 CH and died there.
With her staff and the new end times magic she has become a surprisingly potent caster. You can just blast remains in play sells all day long and top them each off with D3 S5 hits. Technically with end times she can be a loremaster of Vamp, Shadow and Death so she has a lot on the table, and being a level 3 isn't a nightmare like it used to be. Shadow is very potent and shes the only Mortarch that has it. Remains in play spells are a nightmare to dispel if you have to roll a D6 to determine how many dice you can use.
Eventually I got her into a combat; 20 warriors with Festus and an epic challenge with Gutrot Spume. In this challenge I'm up against gutrot with 8WS and -1 To Hit and 5+ regen. I'm stuck hitting on 5s and even with re-rolls thats quite unfortunate. Luckily one wound gets through his current 5+/5++ saves so hes cursed by my dagger. And for the epic I9 Thunderstomps - I roll a 1 and it fails. Gutrot is still wounding on 2+ so he manages two wounds which I have no save at all for.
The lack of save doesn't really bother me becasue she can heal up like crazy. The only thing that does kind of annoy me is that S5 just seems too low for a challenge centric lord. After round two I won but with the help of a luckly Wildform from a Sourcerous Portal.
In the end Nef seems cool as a caster and will most likely win any challenge she is in, albeit not as quickly as you would hope.
I'm interested to try out the other Mortarchs and see how they fare as well.
As for the lore, I read about 150 pages about how Mannfred is the biggest badass ever. Even Arhkan is not to be messed with. Then Nef shows up and it turns out she can barely tie her shoes without Krell doing it for her. How she survived this long is a mystery. I guess after inventing vampirisim she got fat and lazy for a couple thousand years. According to the lore a vampires strength is tied to their age, so Nef should be able to rip a chimera in two with her base hands. All the women in this book so far are either getting killed or can't do crap without the help of a man. I haven't read the final chapters yet but the first 200 pages are coming off a bit sexist.
On a side note, this model is kind of poorly designed. They got too cute with the design and as a result its very wobbly. make sure you glue both feet to the Spirit Host to keep it sturdy. Still, every time I move it there's a bit of wobbling that takes away from the glamor of having such a cool model. I bet a lot of people will make custom bases or add in some extra support.
Anyway .. on paper it was a perfect mathcup for Nef, I was up against mostly nurgle WoC with very nearly half the army in lords. Despite deploying most of my army after his, I won first turn.
Immediately I started blasting his Maggoth Lord Orghotts with spells. I got off a -3T Withering to start. Honestly I pulled back because I felt bad blowing it off the table before he could use it. He ended up charging 8 CH and died there.
With her staff and the new end times magic she has become a surprisingly potent caster. You can just blast remains in play sells all day long and top them each off with D3 S5 hits. Technically with end times she can be a loremaster of Vamp, Shadow and Death so she has a lot on the table, and being a level 3 isn't a nightmare like it used to be. Shadow is very potent and shes the only Mortarch that has it. Remains in play spells are a nightmare to dispel if you have to roll a D6 to determine how many dice you can use.
Eventually I got her into a combat; 20 warriors with Festus and an epic challenge with Gutrot Spume. In this challenge I'm up against gutrot with 8WS and -1 To Hit and 5+ regen. I'm stuck hitting on 5s and even with re-rolls thats quite unfortunate. Luckily one wound gets through his current 5+/5++ saves so hes cursed by my dagger. And for the epic I9 Thunderstomps - I roll a 1 and it fails. Gutrot is still wounding on 2+ so he manages two wounds which I have no save at all for.
The lack of save doesn't really bother me becasue she can heal up like crazy. The only thing that does kind of annoy me is that S5 just seems too low for a challenge centric lord. After round two I won but with the help of a luckly Wildform from a Sourcerous Portal.
In the end Nef seems cool as a caster and will most likely win any challenge she is in, albeit not as quickly as you would hope.
I'm interested to try out the other Mortarchs and see how they fare as well.
As for the lore, I read about 150 pages about how Mannfred is the biggest badass ever. Even Arhkan is not to be messed with. Then Nef shows up and it turns out she can barely tie her shoes without Krell doing it for her. How she survived this long is a mystery. I guess after inventing vampirisim she got fat and lazy for a couple thousand years. According to the lore a vampires strength is tied to their age, so Nef should be able to rip a chimera in two with her base hands. All the women in this book so far are either getting killed or can't do crap without the help of a man. I haven't read the final chapters yet but the first 200 pages are coming off a bit sexist.
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
GW writers really don't have a good track record writing female characters, or sculpting female models that aren't hyper-sexualized. It's especially unfortunate for Neferata, given how much potential she had to be awesome. GW never was one to rise above hackneyed fantasy stereotypes, "Damsel in Distress" meme included.
Notable female badasses in WHFB include Hellebron and Morathi, who are obsessed with their looks and don'twear clothing, and Valkia who owes most of her success to being Khorne's sex toy.
One could argue that warhammer is based off a traditional hunter gather society mindset. The men are the stronger biologically and therefor are the primary warriors of said cultures and warbands. The females come about here and there and are not unrepresented. There really isn't anything to comment about. One of the first of vampires is neferata according to the lore, morathi has been mentioned and hellebron, Valkia. I am sure there will be more notables in the future.
Maybe you'll even get an entire unit of bearded dwarf women. They cause animosity if their beards are longer than the nearest male dwarf infantry unit.
On the topic of this thread,
I definitely favour Vlad the most. He is just the style of vampire that I enjoy. In total control. Thoughtful. Calculating. Manny bothers me greatly. I would only buy his new model to steal his mount and make a custom lord.
Krell really does interest me, and I am dissappointed at his points cost. I usually run a vampire who I try to model after a Blood dragon (but for competitive purposes use him as my lvl 4) and then I run krell off to the side with GG and I have him stand up to any monsters or characters that come my way. My last game Krell chopped down a hydra and a dreadlord by himself. He really is to be reckoned with with D3 wounds and str 6. Its all about getting favourable matchups.
Maybe you'll even get an entire unit of bearded dwarf women. They cause animosity if their beards are longer than the nearest male dwarf infantry unit.
On the topic of this thread,
I definitely favour Vlad the most. He is just the style of vampire that I enjoy. In total control. Thoughtful. Calculating. Manny bothers me greatly. I would only buy his new model to steal his mount and make a custom lord.
Krell really does interest me, and I am dissappointed at his points cost. I usually run a vampire who I try to model after a Blood dragon (but for competitive purposes use him as my lvl 4) and then I run krell off to the side with GG and I have him stand up to any monsters or characters that come my way. My last game Krell chopped down a hydra and a dreadlord by himself. He really is to be reckoned with with D3 wounds and str 6. Its all about getting favourable matchups.
LordTobiothan
Crypt Horror
One problem with your theory is the elves. Who don't have any biological differences between male and female outside of reproductive parts. They should be represented 50/50 at least. And vampire strength has nothing to do with physical form, yet our only female vamp is the weakest of the lot by a lot and even if you count nefe she was the one being complained about as being shown as weak.
On topic. I'm basically with the general consensus, rules wise manny is a beast, lore wise I'd have to give it to Vlad because he is the embodiment of what I consider a vampire.
Pirate Robot Ninja of Death
Vampire Thrall
That really doesn't excuse anything. Just because men trend higher in terms of body strength doesn't mean that there can't be females of exceptional strength and/or martial prowess, or indeed that there weren't examples of such in history. Or, more importantly, that there can't be examples of such in an entirely fictional fantasy world. It's just another example of fantasy authors perpetuating lazy Victorian stereotypes rather than crafting a fictional world more in tune with modern sensibilities. I.e. crafting female characters that are more than an excuse to sculpt chainmail bikinis or boob armour.
Which is especially frustrating for Neferata because she has potential to be one of the biggest badasses in WHFB. She's the oldest Vampire, and ought to be the very powerful if not THE most powerful of Vampires as well, and yet she is constantly upstaged by relative newcomes Vlad and Mannfred.
I don't think there is any doubt that Neferata's stat-line is really a joke in comparison. One trick pony. But so is Krell's. I guess some of it just has to be written off as game balance. Though the fluff for Neferata is a joke. Her maiden was known to rip beasts in half with her bare hands and she is dropped by some random wild chimaera in Nagash. I was very dissappointed.
Game-wise, she's better than Krell. And while I'm not sure I'd call her better than arkhan mechanically, she is arguably more interesting, and Arkhan really is just a sort of discount Nagash - 2/3 the effectiveness for 2/3 the cost, and if you want that play style it's really hard to argue that you wouldn't be better off just getting the big guy. Unless you're deliberately holding back.
Definitely a let down fluff-wise, though.
Definitely a let down fluff-wise, though.
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Shes not a one trick pony - as I said being a loremaster in shadow is a big deal if you're playing end times magic. Shes quite the beast of a caster being able to fly to where she needs to be and blast with magic. Unfortunately this leaves her quite vulnerable having basically no saves whatsoever.
Against shooting lists you have to hope for first turn and fly somewhere you aren't goign to die before being able to engage. At least she has that opportunity; Arkhan and Mannfred aren't as safe in combat so they are going to be vulnerable all day long and you'll likely watch them die more often than not. At least Mannfred can heal himself and has 5+; Arkhan is just waiting to be blown off the table. Arkhan might be 1/3 less costly than Nagash, but Nagash can take twice as many wounds, likely much more with the ability to heal himself.
In combat, she will win. That's a one hell of a nice trick for your pony. The only way she wont win is maybe against a 3++ re-rolling cheese ward. Still, you have plenty of time to go to town on vamp spells and negate any wounds that made it through to her so at the very least shell pin down some unkillable super lord for the whole game while blasting some of the worst hexes around unhindered.
I'm wondering how long the end times magic will last for. Its fun now but there too many unanswered questions like, should mages really be getting loremaster in 2+ lores at once? How does a power scroll even work now? If Nef is even still around in 9th edition, she may lose a lot of her potency as she is now. But with the end times in full swing, its a great time to get her on the table and freak out your opponents with her surprisingly nightmarish magic and unstoppable melee.
Against shooting lists you have to hope for first turn and fly somewhere you aren't goign to die before being able to engage. At least she has that opportunity; Arkhan and Mannfred aren't as safe in combat so they are going to be vulnerable all day long and you'll likely watch them die more often than not. At least Mannfred can heal himself and has 5+; Arkhan is just waiting to be blown off the table. Arkhan might be 1/3 less costly than Nagash, but Nagash can take twice as many wounds, likely much more with the ability to heal himself.
In combat, she will win. That's a one hell of a nice trick for your pony. The only way she wont win is maybe against a 3++ re-rolling cheese ward. Still, you have plenty of time to go to town on vamp spells and negate any wounds that made it through to her so at the very least shell pin down some unkillable super lord for the whole game while blasting some of the worst hexes around unhindered.
I'm wondering how long the end times magic will last for. Its fun now but there too many unanswered questions like, should mages really be getting loremaster in 2+ lores at once? How does a power scroll even work now? If Nef is even still around in 9th edition, she may lose a lot of her potency as she is now. But with the end times in full swing, its a great time to get her on the table and freak out your opponents with her surprisingly nightmarish magic and unstoppable melee.