ZP- Rare Units
- Thread starter Lord of Ravens
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So, puting octopus based sexual assault aside for minute, now we have decided the sea creatures will be undead, is everybody happy with the rare choices as they stand?
Ghost Ship
Big Cannon
Sea Serpant
Kraken
Siren
Ghost Ship
Big Cannon
Sea Serpant
Kraken
Siren
Still not sure on the ship due to the previous raised points. However I would say we keep it in for now and see what we can come up with during unit discussions. It can always be dropped later if needs be.
The rest I am ok with.
The rest I am ok with.
I say that these units are ready for individual discussion. If anyone has any more ideas for rares, they can always post them here later.
xaeromancer
Zombie
I like the concept of a flying ghostly ship (although scaled to a large boat...) that must materialize to take on it's crew (becoming a building) and then delivering them across the battlefield.
I also like the idea of an undead kraken, with the tentacles as cavalry sized models. This means you'd be able to alter the formation of the tentacles and draw out more with Invocation of Nehek (tentacles reforming, dividing, etc.)
Perhaps the Siren would be best remaining a character?
I also like the idea of an undead kraken, with the tentacles as cavalry sized models. This means you'd be able to alter the formation of the tentacles and draw out more with Invocation of Nehek (tentacles reforming, dividing, etc.)
Perhaps the Siren would be best remaining a character?
xaeromancer said:
I still think that shrinking a ship to be viable on the battlefield would be failing to do it justice. I do like the concept, and I just don't think the scale of the battles are quite appropriate.
xaeromancer said:
Zombie Pirates don't have access to the Invocation, however, and as a monster, it wouldn't be subject to the Tides of War rule that causes recovery of wounds upon winning combat. I'm afraid I'm a little out of touch with the reformation rules - what tactical advantages would they offer models on cavalry bases that they don't offer those on infantry ones?
xaeromancer said:
May I ask why you feel this way?
xaeromancer
Zombie
Zombie Pirates without a ghost ship? What next? No hooks? No eye patches? No parrots? Without units like this, it's just a fancy zombie list.
By reforming the tentacles, the kraken would be able to either attack the entire front rank in a broad unit or to claim a rank bonus since, with the tentacles, it behaves more like a unit than a single monster. I also think that the army should have access to the necromancy spells as they are the fundamental building blocks of raising the dead.
Typically, the siren is solitary in the various folklore; ironically, the only exception to that I can think of is in the Odyssey itself (and thus, O Brother Where Art Thou.) She'd also fill the gap of a lord level magic user and fill in the archetype of a sea witch, calling down storms and curses. Otherwise, why not just have wraiths? Additionally, the forced movement ability is more in keeping with a character than a unit. For the 40K players, this is comparable to the Lash of Submission Slaanesh power, which proved fairly unpopular. To then give it to a unit, might be a bit rich for the opponent.
By reforming the tentacles, the kraken would be able to either attack the entire front rank in a broad unit or to claim a rank bonus since, with the tentacles, it behaves more like a unit than a single monster. I also think that the army should have access to the necromancy spells as they are the fundamental building blocks of raising the dead.
Typically, the siren is solitary in the various folklore; ironically, the only exception to that I can think of is in the Odyssey itself (and thus, O Brother Where Art Thou.) She'd also fill the gap of a lord level magic user and fill in the archetype of a sea witch, calling down storms and curses. Otherwise, why not just have wraiths? Additionally, the forced movement ability is more in keeping with a character than a unit. For the 40K players, this is comparable to the Lash of Submission Slaanesh power, which proved fairly unpopular. To then give it to a unit, might be a bit rich for the opponent.
xaeromancer said:
Technically, even with units like this, it's still just a fancy zombie list. :tongue:
xaeromancer said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't infantry units also reform? I'm afraid I lack the 7th edition rulebook, so I'm not sure if they took out that ability.
xaeromancer said:
Fair enough, and that is a discussion best kept in the Magic thread.
And of course, the Siren has been given its own discussion thread. In case you hadn't already guessed, or on the off chance you the reader are new here, please continue discussion of the Siren there, rather than in this thread.
xaeromancer
Zombie
Yes, they can, but monsters can't. The varghulf and hyrda (which are probably the closest existing monsters) are mounted on single large bases, the ability to reform would be a real tactical advantage to the Kraken. Also, no rulebook? Are you waiting for 8th edition? 7 1/2 weeks and counting!
This was specifically related to the use of Invocation of Nehek on the Kraken tentacles, as opposed to simply using regeneration.
The current trend of the Siren thread seems to be of returning it to a Rare choice, which I've opposed already in that thread.
Or, you know, a Pirate army list. Also, there are rules in the General's Compendium for ships and boats.
The sea serpent would be easier to envision on land than the kraken, as it is essentially just a big, ugly, aquatic, undead snake, so on land it would move like a snake. Kraken on land i'm struggling with envisioning, unless its movements speed is stupid-slow or it's ethereal, there's no other way i can see that puppy working
Hang on, let me get this straight:
Bess - obv.
Sea serpent - sounds fun
Kraken - also fun!
Siren - that just fits too well - feels like our wraiths but better at annoying people
Flying Ghost Ship - that just sounds a bit crazy to me! I think it should be more like a piece of it, zombies don't have complete ships
Make it more like the black coach, its a flying ghost, but its not as tough and it can't keep getting better. I Do think it should have a "turn the blood of normal men to a chilled blue ichor in their veins as they see the very bringer of death from beyond the horizon" kinda style though
Bess - obv.
Sea serpent - sounds fun
Kraken - also fun!
Siren - that just fits too well - feels like our wraiths but better at annoying people
Flying Ghost Ship - that just sounds a bit crazy to me! I think it should be more like a piece of it, zombies don't have complete ships
Make it more like the black coach, its a flying ghost, but its not as tough and it can't keep getting better. I Do think it should have a "turn the blood of normal men to a chilled blue ichor in their veins as they see the very bringer of death from beyond the horizon" kinda style though