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Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
May 22, 2010
637
Nottingham, UK
I'm still not the biggest fan of the command point system. To me, it just adds an extra tier of rules that are not really needed. That said, if they are going to continue with it, this seems like a decent way of managing the system.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
Well, it's just another layer if you want, because if you don't like something you can adjust the rules and its complexity to your tastes. It's what I really like the gaming side of AoS for.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,252
I dont like that extra command points are tied to battalions, just like i dont like extra artifactsvtied to battalions. Not when there's such a huge discrepency from faction to faction in terms of the number, quality, and cost of battalions available. I dont like rules that further punish less supported factions for the crime of being less supported. Not having good battalion support is punishment enough in and of itself.

And without those extra points, the new rules are a little more flexible in how you use command abilities, but you don't actually get more of them per game, which undercuts the motivation to take more heroes, which was the point of this change to begin with.

I would have preferred a flat 2 or 3 command points per vame, plus one per turn.

To be clear, i do think the new set up is an improvement, just that it would be more of an improvement uf command points were a bit less aggressively restricted, and not tied to battalions at all.
 
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El Syf

Crypt Horror
Dec 4, 2011
597
Eastbourne
Hated the fact summoning costed you reinforcement points, the more I hear the better version 2 aos seems. Although they'll probably bump all our big heroes up in points...
EDIT: apparently kurnoth hunters and spirits of durthu are too many points as they are now?! Vlozd and morghasts getting points reduction then I suppose.
 
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DocteurQui

Skeleton
Apr 21, 2018
65
Netherlands
Hated the fact summoning costed you reinforcement points, the more I hear the better version 2 aos seems. Although they'll probably bump all our big heroes up in points...
EDIT: apparently kurnoth hunters and spirits of durthu are too many points as they are now?! Vlozd and morghasts getting points reduction then I suppose.
Really agree with you, they seem to be doing quite a good job with this new edition, plus the 200 pages of lore seems like an extremely nice and needed idea. I really hope it'll put some personality into the mortal reslms, cause I for one don't feel like it has a lot of it rn.

The one thing I'm a big afraid of is the fact that they seem to be making a lot of units cost less points, which means there will be more models on the table in the end, which means the amount of money one needs to invest in the hobby to have a full 2k army, steadily rises as well. I think it'd be a shame for AoS to return to fantasy 8th edition, which was of course a really cool game, but it was a really hard game go get into. Which I think was partly because of the amount of money it cost to make a functional tournament ready army.
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
May 22, 2010
637
Nottingham, UK
I don't think that it will revert to Fantasy levels because Age of Sigmar is not a game of ranked formations. One of the problems in playing Fantasy from seventh edition onwards was the sheer size that infantry blocks had to be in order to be effective. This resulted in having to spend an awful lot of money on boxed sets of infantry and it's one of the reasons why I stopped playing because my Vampire Counts and Empire couldn't compete with the pre-seventh edition sized infantry and cavalry units which I was fielding.

Legions of Nagash look very impressive and I like the changes about the summoning. The combinations outlined the article look pretty strong, although I'm sure that other races will have their own powerful combinations. There certainly seems to be more potential for Death forces in the forthcoming edition though.
 

DocteurQui

Skeleton
Apr 21, 2018
65
Netherlands
They have that personality already more than WHFB ever had, in fact. And not only.

Do you think? Why? The old world seems so much more coloured in and cool! There was so much history to each and every location and character. While in the mortal realms the amount of "sandbox" really seems more like a desert to me. But idk, why do you feel like the mortal realms have so much more character? Really hope you can convince me! ;) :)
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
May 22, 2010
637
Nottingham, UK
I'm also waiting to be convinced by the lore aspect of Age of Sigmar, but the information coming out of GW regarding this second edition is more hopeful in this regard. I am, therefore, more optimistic in the past that the narrative is going develop to become a bit more detailed and engaging at least.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
I don't want to convince you, it's a matter of personal tastes. FB has 30 years of development,but even then AoS already has more than FB had in its infancy, and almost the same amount FB had before End Times. But all in all WHFB is just one of hundreds such cliched pseudo-european settings, while AoS is only one of several settings I would classify as unique, among them almost all DnD settings (Spelljammer and Ravenloft in particular), Magic the Gathering, Warcraft to an extent, Middle Earth and some others.
 

Irisado

Ancient Vampire Lord
Staff member
True Blood
May 22, 2010
637
Nottingham, UK
I'm much more open to persuasion that I was prior to this new version coming out, so it's okay :). I am actually hoping that the developed narrative is going to be good. I want to move forward and not stay stuck in the past. It's just that I require GW to develop the narrative more to be able to do that.
 
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Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
Narration is not what they do best, or what they develop that good, but Malign Portents show some promise, and if they link new plot to it, it would be quite well.
 

Kassill

Grave Guard
Sep 28, 2011
221
So just to be clear, there is going to a be a core book but still a generals handbook? :cautious: I understood when the "core" was four pages of general "move, shoot, charge" but this is kind of odd.
 

Borgnine

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jun 15, 2013
2,036
Pruszkow, Poland
Damn, this thing is vaaaast. And looks good too! Maybe AoS really is growing out of it's awkward early phase and will shape into something with detail and depth.

Still, this makes me worry if this is not repeating the mistakes WFB made. Not only the numerous books, and miniatures, but now there's also spells and objectives that need to be painted? I know those things are optional, but if everyone will be using them in the future, then they won't be that optional, like stubborn hordes in 8th edition. It sure put me on the fence - while I am getting increasingly interested in the setting and game, especially after seeing that book, the amount of stuff that is needed to be bought and painted is discouraging a bit.

Well, maybe I just get that impression just because they pumped all of it into a single post.... ;)
 
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Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Nov 11, 2013
934
Sehnde, Niedersachsen
He already is. For a long time.

Still, this makes me worry if this is not repeating the mistakes WFB made.
Me too, it does not look well. AoS already is too oversized sometimes, even if optional, and it won't do no good being even more oversized. Like 40k already becomes that same monstrosity they wanted to get rid of during 6-7 editions.
 

Kassill

Grave Guard
Sep 28, 2011
221
I think it's manageable, they just front loaded a single post to get us hyped. I don't think a lot of that will be necessary for just throwing down friendly pick up games here and there with your pals while still leaving "depth" to explore the more and more you play. I recently played an intro game with a friend using the bare minimum warscrolls and core rules, but told him that there was still "more", it's just how many layers do you want. It's flexible, but also daunting if you try and absorb it all at once.
 
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Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
930
Northern Italy
The general "discount" on points cost, the "free" summoning, the spells…. from GW's pov, it all goes toward a single target: to sell more miniatures.

I fear they are going to set the entry level, once again, too high for beginners… even if all the "start collecting" boxes are of great help
 
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Borgnine

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jun 15, 2013
2,036
Pruszkow, Poland
@Unas the slayer Well, they are trying to make money, they are a business after all. Maybe they feel encouraged with how good AoS is selling to push it some more and see how much sticks.

The video is pretty cool, shame we didn't have such things in the age of WFB ;) That Mortarch of Grief looks to be just a very big ghost, that's somewhat underwhelming... I wonder how her mini will look like in the end.

Hopefully the minis from the starter set and those spells will be available on ebay, it would be cool to get some of them. That flaming skull is awesome and those small portals are nice too ;)
 

Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
930
Northern Italy
@Unas the slayer Well, they are trying to make money, they are a business after all. Maybe they feel encouraged with how good AoS is selling to push it some more and see how much sticks.



I was debating something similar also in another forum, where a user was lamenting that the 7th Edition Dwarf book was £20 and the 8th Edition one was £30, so it was a total investment in books of £50 for that army over 6 years, comparing it to £20 a year for the General’s Handbook, plus all the battletomes


People tend to forget the negative aspects of the Old Way.
Few books and years of waiting took WHFB to a stagnant level, where a new edition was running and some armies were still stuck with their old, surpassed manual. And if your codex was not competitive, your army would have been condemned to fall behind for years.
It was terrible.

With the current system, every army receives something helpful with every release. For example, staying with the Dwarfs-Dispossessed example (an army which still lacks a battletome) they received additional abilities and new artefacts with the GHB17. Sure, there are still top-tier and low-tier army, but the game is in constant evolution and everyone knows that each year, something will be given to their own army.

If the price is to spend more money, I'm happy to do it.
 
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