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El Syf

Crypt Horror
Dec 4, 2011
597
Eastbourne
You have to try new things to progress and this is just that.
But I found the timeline being stuck on the edge of doomsday infuriating, so blowing up the world and starting afresh has been very appealing to me.
It helps that I like the models although they are not my army; so I will only be purchasing age of Sigmar for the book unless that is available separately.
GW are actually giving rules away for free, something people have been wanting which many thought would never happen.
I just don't see the need for the vitriol, maybe we should all go back to living in caves and never try anything new?
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,252
There's a lot to like, but a lot to be angry about. This is a completely different game, not just new rules, but a different style and scale, and some people aren't going to like that. New isn't always better. Different isn't always better. This game really doesn't have the room for tactical depth that the old game did, or even that 40k does. Some of the stuff we've already seen is abusable to the point of having a hard time seeing how the game is even playable, and that's before we get to the 'no points values' thing, which, if true (and it seems to be true), and if there isn't an adequate replacement mechanic (and none seems to be on display yet), really cuts the legs out from under this game even for people like me who were otherwise inclined to give it the benefit of the doubt. I don't want to have a debate before every single game about how many skeletons each iron gut is worth, whether an iron blaster is a one for one balance with a terrorgheists or whether he should get some extra bulls or me some more ghouls, or whether Nagash is worth six maneaters or twelve, and whether the nagash players should get sudden death victory benefits for being outnumbered in that situation, before every single game.

You can still talk to opponents before games about what kind of stuff you want to play with and against regardless, but a points system gives you a standard to go on. It makes pregame discussion simple and quick - "Hey, two thousand point game" "sure, but could you leave nagash at home?" "sure" - instead of a lengthy haggling process with no mutual foundation to build on, prone to frustration and argument.

Everything else I could get behind, if not as a replacement for the warhammer I know and love then at least as a potentially interesting if a little bit silly new game in its own right. But 'no points' remains a deal breaker unless there's something pretty major we haven't seen. And it's both frustrating and a little bit infuriating that GW didn't think that mattered.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Oct 28, 2011
1,245
I like the concept of Nagash, and his ambition, but I really wish he had more of a clear personality. He just seems kinda angsty. (And the idea to turn everyone into mindless slaves that work for you is kind of boring and pointless.) And after reading the Nagash book I never really understood if our vampires ended up being mind controlled by him, or if he can read their thoughts, or what. Because if my general is technically a slave to him then that is kind of a deal breaker to me. I like the idea that he is their leader/god due to him being overwhelmingly powerful though.

@Demian I was too late to pick up the last end times book. Is Isabella alive, and Vlad gone? Is there a spoiler thread somewhere? :tongue:

As far as I can read, Nagash does not control every undead, only those without a semblance of willpower (like... everything below his Leadeship value was subject to his control, just as an example).

However, Vampires were independent-ish, since they could exert their will into others (Vlad takes control of some of the Undead that The Nameless held in his grasp, thus exemplifying how powerful vampires really are, in such manner).

That's why Nagash has been betrayed all those times. He can, however, unweave the curse of Undeath from any of his minions and other undead creatures with ease, making him a tyrant, rather than a puppet master, which is "okayish".


As for the spoilers you seek:

Vlad encounters a resurrected Isabella, controlled by a Nurgle daemon, wed to her soul. In his last attempt to save her, he removes the Carstein Ring from himself and gives it to Daemon-Isabella, just before grabbing her and both falling to their deaths, both ending up impaled. Killing her was the only way to get rid of said daemon, but he wouldn't want to lose her again, so he gave her his "imortality" via the Ring.

Later, she is discovered by Neferata, in the ruins of the city, but Vlad nowhere to be seen, having died again and in the same fashion, but this time, his wife was free from the daemonic corruption
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
The big thing that frustrates me about this is that they are replacing Warhammer FB with this, and it's absolute rubbish in terms of being a game. It doesn't even work, for all the aforementioned reasons that i need not go into.

But it just feels like a stab in the back, because unlike something like Mordheim or Epic, Warhammer was enjoyed by a very large number of people, not as large as 40k, but still pretty big. Now they won't allow anyone to play it in their stores and instead you HAVE to play AoS. This pisses me off so much, if it was optional to play AoS or Warhammer FB then I wouldn't be so angry, but I am not going to support this bullshit any longer because quite frankly I have had enough of Games Workshop's stinking attitude.

They treat their customers like shit, they don't communicate with their fans, they don't update their rules often enough, and when they do it costs the customer an arm and a leg, which is why I stopped with 40k. Yes, with AoS the rules are free and yes they will probably update them fairly often but the thing is this: the rules are shit, to the point where they don't even fucking work! How am I supposed to play a game with a non-functioning rule set? Also, I loved the rank and file system, and this is not rank and file, it's 40k dressed up as fantasy, but with even less depth or strategy involved, it's pure drivel.

I think before anyone gets really accepting of this they need to look at how Games Workshop are behaving and judge whether or not they wish to support them anymore and I for one do not wish to support them anymore because to them I am completely expendable and worthless, and I don't want to be treated like that when I am spending a crap load of money on these models, spending a lot of time painting, modelling and converting them, only for them to then treat me like a second class citizen for even daring to criticise them.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Oct 28, 2011
1,245
It's true!

If they were going to change the game to such extent, it would have been nicer to have uh... press releases? (dunno if that would be the right term. Mass comunicates) explaining that they felt the game needed X and Y and that they would like to try Z direction to it.

Having a poll (of sorts) explaining what did we liked and didn't like, Rules-wise about 8th and announcing a product that "could replace the old 8th ed warhammer" but not a definitive "that game an rules are obsolete, you MUST try this in order to be supported by GW"

Easing into it would have shown greater care and maybe that would have made us less prone to rejection. Kindness, if you will.

EDIT: Besides, existing players are their BEST advertisers, and enticers to any of their tabletop games. AoS campaign is kinda absurd like that.
 
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El Syf

Crypt Horror
Dec 4, 2011
597
Eastbourne
Just a quick aside, does this mean we will no longer receive square bases with warhammer models?
I think it was mentioned earlier but can't remember, there's a few units I still need before I'm "finished".
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
Just a quick aside, does this mean we will no longer receive square bases with warhammer models?
I think it was mentioned earlier but can't remember, there's a few units I still need before I'm "finished".

Yes they are rebranding all the models in the Fantasy range and after the 4th of July they will no longer be supplied with square bases.
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
1435862010279.jpg
 

Mr. West

Lahmian Tomb Guard
Mar 26, 2013
242
Well, I'm gonna get 4 boxes of Wildwood Rangers to finish my girlfriends WE army, but after that I'll probably be sticking exclusively to ebay and other sources.

I want me one of those Ophidian Archways though, looks like a nice piece of scenery for once, but I'll have to see it in the flesh first.

Otherwise ... 2-3 games of WHFB coming my way next week, what's not to like.
 

Dakaar

Zombie
Jan 14, 2013
49
Not that I really have any hope or interest in playing in age of sigmarines but i thought people may like to see this

11539580_505667036257341_736277021498282505_n.jpg

Seems to prove manfred is alive and well in the new world
 

Blutsauger

Vampire Count
Apr 10, 2013
1,089
WT flying F? I thought that the rumor with the orruks, ogors and aelfs was just a pathetic joke and not something true... Seriously dudes. It won't protect any IP and people will still look for 'ogre' and 'orc' replacements on the internet.

It's not about protecting IP, it's about creating an identifiable and unique brand. One of the issues management had with WHFB was that it was so generic. I mean, the human empire didn't even have a name. It was just 'Empire'. Then we had all the generic fantasy tropes in orcs, dwarves, elves, etc.

They wanted something that was uniquely theirs. Now, granted, this is a purely cosmetic change. The orruks are still just orcs and the aelfs are still just aelfs, but it serves to start distancing GW stuff from generic fantasy stuff. It makes it more unique.

I think it's silly, but that's what they were going for.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,252
Certainly evidence to that effect, though it's entirely possible that what once was 'Mannfred von Carstein, Mortarch of Night' might now just be 'Soulblight Vampire on Dread Abyssal'. Unlikely, but possible.

It's so frustrating to me how close AoS seems to be coming to the game I wanted it to be. Baddish rules, but I never played warhammer for the rules, if I'm honest. Kept the models and characters I wanted to stick around. Prominent place in the narrative for Nagash. All rules free online. Smaller, skirmish oriented game making new player buy in much easier.

If only for that no points system thing. Ugh that is just so... blargh.
 
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Banat

Varghulf
Jul 13, 2014
790
There are many concerning elements of course; no WS and 2d6 magic casting being fairly prominent for me. However one of the elements I really enjoyed about Sigmar's Blood was the "achieve x objective and y unit has z upgrade in the following battle". Apparently there are elements which allow that in the rules, basically your units can upgrade depending on whether they won the previous battle etc etc.
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
There are many concerning elements of course; no WS and 2d6 magic casting being fairly prominent for me. However one of the elements I really enjoyed about Sigmar's Blood was the "achieve x objective and y unit has z upgrade in the following battle". Apparently there are elements which allow that in the rules, basically your units can upgrade depending on whether they won the previous battle etc etc.

Things like that only work in video games though because you go into a GW store and you play random people for the most part and if you play with your friends then why would you want to do it with Age of Derpmar instead of with Truehammer Fantasy Battles?

Remember this?

wfb_25_stor.jpg
 
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Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
There are many concerning elements of course; no WS and 2d6 magic casting being fairly prominent for me. However one of the elements I really enjoyed about Sigmar's Blood was the "achieve x objective and y unit has z upgrade in the following battle". Apparently there are elements which allow that in the rules, basically your units can upgrade depending on whether they won the previous battle etc etc.
Warhammer+Dreadball=Age of Sigmar?
 

Adam_Barrow

Sleepless Knight
True Blood
Dec 25, 2010
3,068
Nashville, TN
They wanted something that was uniquely theirs. Now, granted, this is a purely cosmetic change. The orruks are still just orcs and the aelfs are still just aelfs, but it serves to start distancing GW stuff from generic fantasy stuff. It makes it more unique.

I think it's silly, but that's what they were going for.

They weren't even original with what they were trying to make original. The word Uruk means Orc in Black Speech. Y'know, the language used in Mordor? C'mon, gw. Not even thinly veiled.
 

Majrenob

Zombie
Jul 17, 2014
36
Seems like that is what it's shaping up to be, better get a Tomb King Codex before they are all gone.

I've got a bunch of Tomb Kings Codexes. Was planning on making a collage..

Wish I played 40k so I could make a comparison. Until Saturday I'm optimistic.
 

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