Age of sigmar

[Sception]

Vampires are hardly opponents of Sigmar, you know

Actually, they kind of are. Or at least they seem to be. Both Sigmar and Nagash oppose chaos, but they also seem to oppose each other from what I can tell, and in particular it seems the rift between them was what broke the pantheon's alliance and allowed chaos to find a foothold.

 

[Menkeroth]

Perhaps, but I doubt any of the vampires could stand against Sigmar. Only Nagash as a kind of a god. Vampires are opponents for Sigmarites, I guess, and that, maybe, could be a possible variant of creating new and interesting characters.

 

[Sception]

I didn't mean to suggest someone who would go toe to toe with sigmar himself, just a human champion who would reject him as a god for abandoning his people, and serve as a rival to sigmar's own champions.

 

[Menkeroth]

Well, then it's certainly an idea. But anyway, it suits more, I think, for chaos followers than for vampires or somebody else. Though it's more generic and less original, I guess. Can GW possibly draw such colorful characters as Vlad or Nagash now?

 

[Woolly.Mammoth]

I like many of the things you say @EternallyUndying but I really disagree that losing 'old timers' has any significant effect on sales. Sure there are weirdos like me that keep spending insane amounts on plasticrack but let us face it: The veteran players has never been the ones who brought in the revenue, that is the kids (and indirectly their parents). Whenever I speak to people living off selling GW products (which I do a lot since some of my best friends are GW managers :tongue: ) what I hear them say is: The entry level is way too high and we lose a lot of potential young customers because of this (this is no news to us). I think AoS will really fix this

Thank you, I appreciate that. The point of my post was to shed some light on why WHFB is way down in popularity due to a lack of support, and how simply heavily supporting the new AoS will make a huge difference. I'm sure they are focusing more on pulling in new customers than supporting old ones, but they are not completely neglecting us like some feared (all the new warscrolls).

I'm no expert in sales but I wonder how much this is true; it would take a lot of kids wandering in and begging their parents to buy them one box to equal the amount I spend in the store. I think they need us very much, but they also want it to be growing with more customers. AoS seems to be catering havily to new players, but not ignoring what veterans want (at least any more than they have always ignored us).

I believe all of us here are addicted to plastic crack, thats not weird in the least.

The new lord of Khorne is amazing. I hope Tzeentch ones and VC characters will be even better!

Notice that Khorne has been getting all the love lately? I dont think its a coincidence that there was a new greater deamon, focus on Khorne in End Times, Khorne in new box set coinciding with "Khorne Daemonkin" for 40k. I think they will be relasing more Daemonkins for 40k, now with new "cults" of each god in fantasy as well. I think that soon we will see a big Tzeentch thing happening for both games.

Keep in mind, that if you're summoning stuff, and the enemy is churning through it, they are racking up kills if it comes down to a percentage victory condition.

Summoned models don't add to your army's starting size, but DO count toward number of models killed. For example:

If you have a starting army of 50 models, and over the course of the game summon 50 more... If the enemy kills every summoned model (50 kills) he has killed 100% of your army's starting number of models. If the enemy started with 60 models, and hasn't summoned anything, and you've killed 59 of his models, that's only about 98% of his army. So you'll lose.

Make sure you table him and don't run out of time.

For summoning, I was thinking that its like an ambush rule. Its fairly easy to stay over 18" from another wizard and summon unrestricted. I was thinking you would have to "buy" a scroll, then choose to deploy them, or summon them. In order to summon more, you'd have to have "bought" a second scroll. If you play a scroll-restricted game, this would keep the balance. I hope they release a FAQ or rule along these lines.

I am almost sad they didn't release a rulebook, mainly for the fluff side (hopefully they release a full in depth fluff tome) the more snippets of fluff I find about it the more I like the setting, the posibilities are endless. I am a huge fan of Vikings and the Nordic god reference with the nine worlds each home to different races really roped me in. I understand some peoples reaction to the Stormcast eternals or "Sigmarines" as some have dubbed them (hell I think most of the hate of some of the rant vids/ blogs etc is this fact) but in all honesty they are really different. Fluffwise they sound pretty awesome, the fallen souls of valiant warriors who have been reforged into mighty warriors clad in divine plate armour wielding mighty weapons Modelwise they are just as good.

In my opinion they actually look nothing like space marines sure they have the same armoured aesthetic but so what the chaos warriors are the same and no one has called them dubbed them chaos marines, the eternals are exactly armoured how one in heavy plate armour should be, only the pauldrons and chest plate hint at the astarte vibe but pauldrons are more fantasy than sci-fi whilst the chest is only because the blood angels have that weird erotic nipple chest armour. I'd also say the heads are weird but suit with the whole reborn in lighting theme hell the whole stormcast eternals looks like GW wanted to release an army that is a direct opposite to the heavily armoured chaos warriors but with a more noble look

The new army is clearly based on trying to copy some of the essence of space marines into fantasy. From the back they look extremely similar. The shoulder-pads are a little bit more elaborate, the helms are much different and and the legs look less "bell bottom", but they are clearly based on space marine ideas. That dosen't stop them from being unique and cool, and totally fitting in with fantasy, but the clear resemblance is there.

In regards to having female sigmar units -
WHFB is based on medieval fantasy. In medieval times it was inappropriate for a woman to go to battle, this was the responsibility of men. Women, Children and Elderly were protected, and respectable armies would not harm them. Most men feel uncomfortable harming a woman in any way, and as such killing women on the tabletop would turn some people away from the hobby. In addition, you can probably count the number of females who actively play WHFB on two hands - its a game that appeals almost exclusively to males. Some males may like to represent themselves in their armies, imagine themselves as that warlord calling out a challenge for battle. Most men would prefer to imagine themselves as a strong burly warrior rather than a female (though I'm not judging).

For these reasons, adding females is risky from a sales perspective. Personally I enjoy female models and make a lot myself; they are some of my favorites - Sisters of the Thorn, Daemonettes, Isabella, Neferatta, Khalida, etc. But I have no qualm about them not having any female Sigmar units. For all we know there may be more on the way (we have only seen 5 units?). We dont even know much about whats going on with these warriors yet. Perhaps they are genderless - maybe the spirits of warrior women inhabit some of these golden warrior bodies?

There are many important venus to discus gender equality but WH is probably not the best place to focus your effort. There are enough female models out there that you can make all female armies if you wish. I'm not surprised they didn't include any females in the new box, and dont expect to see any for the new race.

 

[Infernal Skull]

For summoning, I was thinking that its like an ambush rule. Its fairly easy to stay over 18" from another wizard and summon unrestricted. I was thinking you would have to "buy" a scroll, then choose to deploy them, or summon them. In order to summon more, you'd have to have "bought" a second scroll. If you play a scroll-restricted game, this would keep the balance. I hope they release a FAQ or rule along these lines.

That's not how it works. Maybe you can argue that you have to have the scroll (unit) in the army to get the DEATH WIZARD spell to summon more, but summoning more wouldn't require a "new scroll" for each unit summoned.

Remember, the core rules and warscroll rules as they are written and intended, make no account whatsoever to the number of warscrolls in an army. The concept of armies being limited to a certain number of warscrolls or total wounds is a wholly after-the-fact add-on rule, amounting to a house rule.

 

[El Syf]

Hold on so aos is 10,000 years after the end times?

 

[Mad 'At]

I copied/moved all the posts regarding female models in Warhammer to a new thread, please feel free to continue the discussion there =)

 

[El Syf]

Cool so can anyone shed more light on if this 10,000 years since the old world went bang is for real?

 

[Menkeroth]

It's written in the coming book I believe, it's about new worlds which existed for millenia and their inhabitants lived freely and peacefully until Chaos came in. Just as usual. Chaos is everywhere, its relentless assault gained a foothold in the new lands and they continue to press on. Sigmar stands against them and so on.

 

[Sception]

I didn't mean the '10,000 years' to be a specific timeframe. I don't believe there is a set timeline of exactly how long it's been since the end times. Especially since, for some indeterminate period after the world fell, things were so consumed by chaos that time certainly had no meaning, but here's a brief sequence of events, taken from the other thread:

Spoiler

The world was consumed by the rift and destroyed, while the world's iron core was flung through the void, with Sigmar clutching to it. It is implied that this was the state of things for a long time. Eventually, the orb is stopped by some sort of giant space/warp dragon thing, which befriends sigmar, and they go on a buddy movie road trip tour of the cosmos. This is also implied to have taken a long time.

Eventually they find the remnants of the old world, which have coalesced into 8 separate demi-planes, each themed to one of the winds of magic. Some of the incarnates survived as gods over these infant realms. Sigmar laid claim to the realm of heavens and built a city there, and forged pacts and built a peace with the other gods. This ushered in a new age of prosperity where civilization boomed across the lands. This period of peace is implied to have lasted a long, long time, long enough for the old world to have already passed into myth and legend.

In time the attention of the chaos gods is drawn back to this new realm, but they are unable to cast it down while the new gods remain united. Unfortunately, that is not the case. The orc god breaks off, discontent with Sigmar's Order. Nagash attempts to usurp power. During this chaos Tyrion breaks with Sigmar to invade slaanesh's domain and kidnap the chaos god, quite possibly opening the door for chaos to get into the realms in doing so. The alliance breaks apart, chaos floods in, and a new age starts of all out warfare.

It's not clear how long this period lasts, it could be years or it could be centuries, but eventually the new gods are beaten back by a united force of chaos led by Archaon (seriously, are any of the really important characters in this game going to be new faces?), until they hole up in their personal final bastions - Nagash in the underworld, Sigmar in his golden city, etc - where chaos can't get to them, at least for a time.

So begins an entire age of chaos dominance where generations of people live and die for the amusement of the dark gods, while their own gods wait it out. During that time Sigmar decides to build a new army capable of fighting the dark powers, and commissions a dwarven god to forge armor and weapons from the core of the old world, while sigmar collects the greatest human heroes to wear them and infuses them with his own power. The setting opens with Sigmar unleashing this new army on the unsuspecting servants of chaos who had grown complacent in their tyranny.

So we have 2 to 3 entire ages, including a golden age of civilization that fluff just skipped right past, one that lasted long enough for the old world to pass into legend before it ended, and that has been gone long enough to pass into legend itself in turn. So while we don't have a specific chronology, yeah, we're talking millennia since the old world, not decades or even centuries.

 

[El Syf]

Thanks for that, will be nice to get more detail on all the new fluff. I'm hoping the new book will be the answer.
Archaon was in it? I was really hoping at least some of the characters (Tyrion especially) who were kills off would stay that way.

 

[Tawg]

Ah, so @Mad 'At is trolling me. I felt like I was missing half a conversation with what @Malisteen was saying about female models lol. I guess I won't comment on that topic here though, if @Mad 'At wanted it as it's own.

At anyrate, @Seneschal, I certainly wish I had more games. I would really like to be on the receiving end of such shooting, to see how "broken" it ends up coming off as to me. All I know is that UNITS that number 10+ (Like foot archers or gunners) normally have max range of 24" and usually are doing 1 Damage per Wound (So on the low side). Which means they really are going to have to choose their targets, and unless they are on the move (Which many of them get bonuses for NOT moving) then they are going to be closed on by the opponent in 2 turns max. This means 2 rounds of shooting (3 if initiative is poorly against you), and then you can be upon them with your melee guys! Granted this is not a hard win, especially since they can continue their volleys into your melee unit, but it means you will more than likely be obstructing their vision and killing them faster than they are killing you.

Cannons/Warmachines on the other hand have ranges up to 48", do D6 (Or more) damage per wound and some ignore sight. These statements are true, and could potentially be quite the nuisance to your heroes. But besides the foot-slogging heroes (Which have lower profiles by default, so better LoS blocking chances), many of those heroes are going to have fairly good movement, and they can potentially maneuver around the battle field to avoid such devastating foes. Alternatively they could elect to be the soak for them, taking hits in place of units, which might be to your benefit? Certainly rolling 6 of a D6 for wounds is going to make everyone cringe, and is going to make an impact on the game. But just the same saving that one Wound and denying a full D6 is just as cringe worthy for your foe.

I still want to play the game and experience bitter defeats because of the Warmachines before I believe it is far too grossly bias towards them, but I can see the point of them being terrifying. And they should be. Like dragons, or Terrorgheist.

Also, while we're on the topic of Khorne and the Chaos Gods... Is anyone else upset their favorite God was simply eliminated from the game? I loved Slaanesh, and I am quite sad they had to take him out! Although I hear the story is that, to appeal to a large audience (Aka children) they had to remove some of the more "risk-ie" side of the game, and Slaanesh is a fairly big offender there. It just pains me that he had to be chumped out and Nurgle is legit to stay, just because he is naked and not sexy.

 

[Menkeroth]

Ah, so
Also, while we're on the topic of Khorne and the Chaos Gods... Is anyone else upset their favorite God was simply eliminated from the game? I loved Slaanesh, and I am quite sad they had to take him out! Although I hear the story is that, to appeal to a large audience (Aka children) they had to remove some of the more "risk-ie" side of the game, and Slaanesh is a fairly big offender there. It just pains me that he had to be chumped out and Nurgle is legit to stay, just because he is naked and [I]not sexy[/I].

It's said in the coming book that Slaanesh disappeared and his servants are trying to find him and find out what has happened to him. Maybe it's not that bad yet.

 

[Banat]

There is nothing to say that Slaanesh has been "eliminated" from the game.

If anything, Her followers (Tyrion refers to it as Her in the fluff) trying to track her down and free her gives them actual purpose and makes Slaaneshi warbands more characterful, beyond just "revel in chaos and disorder".

Think about the Cthulhu mythos, dagonite cults etc. The cultists trying to summon the god is what makes up most of the classic story structure, it does not require the god to be present.

Slaanesh is imprisoned by Tyrion and Teclis, but not removed from the game completely.

The "making AoS more PG-13 friendly" argument is also a load of codswhallop with the likes of Dark Eldar running around in 40k. Their whole MO is rape/pain/bdsm fetish.

 

[Tawg]

There is nothing to say that Slaanesh has been "eliminated" from the game.

If anything, Her followers (Tyrion refers to it as Her in the fluff) trying to track her down and free her gives them actual purpose and makes Slaaneshi warbands more characterful, beyond just "revel in chaos and disorder".

Think about the Cthulhu mythos, dagonite cults etc. The cultists trying to summon the god is what makes up most of the classic story structure, it does not require the god to be present.

Slaanesh is imprisoned by Tyrion and Teclis, but not removed from the game completely.

The "making AoS more PG-13 friendly" argument is also a load of codswhallop with the likes of Dark Eldar running around in 40k. Their whole MO is rape/pain/bdsm fetish.

Well I heard they were being cut back. I guess if it's just story-point that the God has been "Captured" or what ever, then I'm totally fine with that. I don't know that it makes "her" cultist any more inspiring though, from a story perspective. The thought of their cults destroying worlds (Or nations maybe in Fantasy) by raising their nobility into the excess of glutting their own lands and people is great! I mean, Cthulhu is cool too, but Slaanesh =! Cthulhu. Unless you put a squid face on her.

My only concern though is not having sweet demon models for Demonettes or, like, the stupid rules that go with my favorite God. I could play undivided with "Slaanesh" flavor, but that's hardly the same. And I could see that being a possibility if they want to cut back on the unneeded "sexy time with Slaanesh" idea. Although come to think of it, Slaanesh is still a god in 40k (Heaven help me if they remove him from that too!), so there should be models devoted to him anyways! I guess I'm just thinking a bit silly. But 40k and Fantasy aren't the same game just because they are made by the same people. They could easily allow one to be less kid-friendly and not seem too odd.

I dunno, I just vaguely heard that rumor, and I am seeing the bad of it because I really don't want to lose Slaanesh for no reason. Imprisoned for eternity? That's ok. Cut out for good? Not so cool. I still think AoS and 40k could be marketed differently though.

 

[Menkeroth]

There is nothing to say that Slaanesh has been "eliminated" from the game.
If anything, Her followers (Tyrion refers to it as Her in the fluff) trying to track her down and free her gives them actual purpose and makes Slaaneshi warbands more characterful, beyond just "revel in chaos and disorder".

Aye, and that's strange - how could they capture a god? Especially Slaanesh? Remember what was, I believe, with some silver knight in 40k Grey Knights codex? When he passed into the Slaanesh domaine with its demons trying to seduce him and kneeled before Slaanesh when he came to this knight as a beautiful young man? Tyrion and Teclis are powerful beyond measure to be sure, but anyway...

 

[Banat]

Aye, and that's strange - how could they capture a god? Especially Slaanesh? Remember what was, I believe, with some silver knight in 40k Grey Knights codex? When he passed into the Slaanesh domaine with its demons trying to seduce him and kneeled before Slaanesh when he came to this knight as a beautiful young man? Tyrion and Teclis are powerful beyond measure to be sure, but anyway...

The incarnates have still kept their powers as incarnates it seems, or at least are of comparable power levels, so Tyrion is the avatar of Khaine essentially, giving him uber boosts.

Slaanesh on the other hand... You know when you have a massive meal, stuff yourself full, so full you feel like bursting and you literally want to do nothing except just lie there and sleep? That's what Slaanesh was like after glutting herself on all the souls of the elves that had been killed during the ending of the world.

So Tyrion has the power of Khaine and Slaanesh is so stuffed full she's fallen asleep and probably wouldn't be up for a fight even if she did wake up.

 

[Archamedius]

I gotta think this is another money driving opportunity. Slaanesh "disappears" and then they can do a $200 campaign book about his followers finding and freeing him. This allows them to get him out of the core rulebook which allows them to lower the target starting age (children 12+) and at the same time have another source of revenue when they finally bring him back, in a supplement book they can have a higher age requirement on. It minimizes the age restrictions, and theoretically provides an exciting campaign book to play through which drives more cash into the GW coffers. I don't necessarily blame them for this, as long as they do it. I find the cost of their "amazing" supplement books overbearing and I'm not doing End Times again, I bought all those books only to have them invalidated months later, I am not making that mistake again. But I do think if they bring back Slaanesh in a supplement book the hard core Slaanesh fanboys will be thrilled, and others will be thrilled to have a chaos themed release not focused on Nurgle or Khorne. Heck if the rumors of a 40k supplement like demonkin coming for each of the 4 chaos gods, then they could time the release of the Age of Sigmar and 40k Slaanesh at the same time and have a summer of Slaanesh or something.

 

[Menkeroth]

Aye, that's certainly possible. But this is strange anyway - Khorne and Nurgle with all their blood, gore and giant flies are here still and that's OK, but absence of Slaanesh really lowers the age requirements? That's beyond of me.

 

[Archamedius]

Aye, that's certainly possible. But this is strange anyway - Khorne and Nurgle with all their blood, gore and giant flies are here still and that's OK, but absence of Slaanesh really lowers the age requirements? That's beyond of me.

Considering the prevalence of violence in the media today, and the way video game/movie media ratings are structured, it's not that surprising. Back Fat has never been censored, and stories that involve armed conflict at all will eventually lead to someone being killed so it's more commonly accepted I guess.

 

[Mad 'At]

Considering the prevalence of violence in the media today, and the way video game/movie media ratings are structured, it's not that surprising. Back Fat has never been censored, and stories that involve armed conflict at all will eventually lead to someone being killed so it's more commonly accepted I guess.

This is likely due to what is considered okay in different countries. To my knowledge, sex is considered much worse than violence is in the US. While in Europe it is kind of the opposite, at least in some countries (Sweden for one). This might be changing though, and GW might want to advance further on the US market and thus this approach. Anyways, I just have to like this web comic for this also, I think it explains it pretty well:
http://satwcomic.com/anything-but-that

 

[Menkeroth]

Considering the prevalence of violence in the media today, and the way video game/movie media ratings are structured, it's not that surprising. Back Fat has never been censored, and stories that involve armed conflict at all will eventually lead to someone being killed so it's more commonly accepted I guess.

This is likely due to what is considered okay in different countries. To my knowledge, sex is considered much worse than violence is in the US. While in Europe it is kind of the opposite, at least in some countries (Sweden for one). This might be changing though, and GW might want to advance further on the US market and thus this approach. Anyways, I just have to like this web comic for this also, I think it explains it pretty well:
http://satwcomic.com/anything-but-that

Aye, it seems so. I can't say I'm a fan of Slaanesh, but She was a logical part of the Chaos system in WH and rightly so. Regarding the awesome Realm of Chaos map in the latest, I believe, Daemons of Chaos armybook, it's not good She's done for now. What could be used instead of her?

 

[Banat]

S/he is not being gotten rid of. New white dwarf has a formation for slaaneshi daemons. "The host of the lost prince" or something along those lines. Confirmed.

 

[El Syf]

Okay I got down to my local store today and all I can say is in the flesh the stormcast eternals especially The Lord celestant on dracoth are amazing. If they released that one singularly I'd buy it straight up even though I have no use for it. Although with some work I guess it could be used a a vampire lord on dread abysal which we can have now.