Yes! I did a calculation across all my armies and on average they have increased only 5%
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I'm only beginning to absorb the battle profiles document. I can't begin to judge interfaction point balance, I don't have the attention or the interest to keep what ll everything can do or cost for factions Im not interested in playing in my head to make that sort of judgment. Even internal points balance I'm not ready to start commenting on. But in terms of what heroes can take what units in their battalions...
It is kind of weird that the Mortisan Ossifector, a wizard that specifically buffs Mortek Crawlers, cannot take Mortek Crawlers in its battalion. Not a major complaint as I don't rate ossifectors that highly to begin with and kind of resent them for existing when the faction already had more generic infantry wizards than the devs knew what to do with before ossifectors were even introduced, and imo that model should simply have been a limited run alternate boneshaper.
If you want to take crawlers (you probably do as their rules look cool, then again they're nearly 300 points now so maybe not), then you'll need to take liege or unique hero as a detachment leader, as none of the generic wizards can take them. Which feels off, since the warscroll battalions that included crawlers were always led by wizards? Typically boneshapers, though that was back before ossifectors existed and were specifically tied to them.
Generic wizards can all take up to one harvester plus any non-hero "infantry" - the category not the keyword (confusing?) - which is basically everything except the harvester (which they can already take), deathriders, and the crawler. Liege and vokmortian can take any non-hero units. Other named heroes can take any non-hero units plus up to one liege. It feels... off to me that Arkhan can take a liege as part of his regiment, but not generic wizards. Not that you necessarily need or want more wizards if you're already taking arkhan, just saying. I also would have thought nagash would be able to take any units - including any heroes - as part of his battalion, but again that's a fluff feeling and not a rules complaint as if you're taking a nearly 900 point hero already you probably shouldn't be spending a bunch more poitns on heroes anyway.
Morghasts also very expensive at nearly 300 points for 2. I was worried about whether Mortek Guard would be worth fielding due to their lackluster base stats and reliance on support, but given that 20 mortek guard cost less than 2 Morghasts. Points costs in general feel high for OBR. Arkhan is above 400, Katakros is exactly 500, morghasts and crawler as mentioned closer to 300 than 200. I'm not too worried about points, because those get adjusted frequently and if they are too high they'll come down, but still. Doesn't look like a lot of army in a bonereapers army.
...
Ok, that's first thoughts on the OBR, where my heart is. Looking down to Soulblight
Oh! Mortis Engine is a hero now! Will it also be a wizard? That's neat. Can only take deadwalkers in its battalion, though that includes the corpse cart and fell bats, not just zombies and dire wolves.
Belladamma and radukar (either) can each take one minor vyrkos hero along with whatever other soulblight units. Those are the only options for supplemental heroes in battalions, not even nagash can do that here.
Otherwise vampire heroes, necromancers, and nagash (but not the mortis engine or gorslav, who can only take deadwalkers) can take any non-hero soulblight units, while deathrattle heroes (halgrim, wight king) can only take deathrattle units. Not terribly restrictive, but agan very little access to heroes that don't add extra detachments. Blood Knights are a bit pricey, but cheaper than chaos knights, and much cheaper than Morghasts. Zombies aren't the cheapest unit per model in the game - I haven't looked at everything but gnoblars and moonclan stabbas at least are cheaper. 300 for 40 reinforced seems pretty reasonable to me for 40 bodies that explode on 6s when they die in melee, bring back 20 for a command point after the entire unit dies, and have access to a few different support and recursion options beyond that. In general, the unit points costs for soulblight all look kind of low to me, but the hero costs all feel very high. We'll see though, again I'm not the guy to judge points efficiency.
Oh, are Blood-born allowed to be good now?... No, they can't be reinforced. Still bad by default. I still might field them early in the edition due to my limited selection of painted models....
...
Hard to comment on regiments of renown without knowing what they do, but it's worth pointing out that the points costs of the regiments do not necessarily match that of the units they include. Arkhan + 4 morghasts in 'the liche's hand' for instance costs 830, while the same units in a bonereapers army would cost 950.
...
Now I just have to put together some army lists.
It is kind of weird that the Mortisan Ossifector, a wizard that specifically buffs Mortek Crawlers, cannot take Mortek Crawlers in its battalion. Not a major complaint as I don't rate ossifectors that highly to begin with and kind of resent them for existing when the faction already had more generic infantry wizards than the devs knew what to do with before ossifectors were even introduced, and imo that model should simply have been a limited run alternate boneshaper.
If you want to take crawlers (you probably do as their rules look cool, then again they're nearly 300 points now so maybe not), then you'll need to take liege or unique hero as a detachment leader, as none of the generic wizards can take them. Which feels off, since the warscroll battalions that included crawlers were always led by wizards? Typically boneshapers, though that was back before ossifectors existed and were specifically tied to them.
Generic wizards can all take up to one harvester plus any non-hero "infantry" - the category not the keyword (confusing?) - which is basically everything except the harvester (which they can already take), deathriders, and the crawler. Liege and vokmortian can take any non-hero units. Other named heroes can take any non-hero units plus up to one liege. It feels... off to me that Arkhan can take a liege as part of his regiment, but not generic wizards. Not that you necessarily need or want more wizards if you're already taking arkhan, just saying. I also would have thought nagash would be able to take any units - including any heroes - as part of his battalion, but again that's a fluff feeling and not a rules complaint as if you're taking a nearly 900 point hero already you probably shouldn't be spending a bunch more poitns on heroes anyway.
Morghasts also very expensive at nearly 300 points for 2. I was worried about whether Mortek Guard would be worth fielding due to their lackluster base stats and reliance on support, but given that 20 mortek guard cost less than 2 Morghasts. Points costs in general feel high for OBR. Arkhan is above 400, Katakros is exactly 500, morghasts and crawler as mentioned closer to 300 than 200. I'm not too worried about points, because those get adjusted frequently and if they are too high they'll come down, but still. Doesn't look like a lot of army in a bonereapers army.
...
Ok, that's first thoughts on the OBR, where my heart is. Looking down to Soulblight
Oh! Mortis Engine is a hero now! Will it also be a wizard? That's neat. Can only take deadwalkers in its battalion, though that includes the corpse cart and fell bats, not just zombies and dire wolves.
Belladamma and radukar (either) can each take one minor vyrkos hero along with whatever other soulblight units. Those are the only options for supplemental heroes in battalions, not even nagash can do that here.
Otherwise vampire heroes, necromancers, and nagash (but not the mortis engine or gorslav, who can only take deadwalkers) can take any non-hero soulblight units, while deathrattle heroes (halgrim, wight king) can only take deathrattle units. Not terribly restrictive, but agan very little access to heroes that don't add extra detachments. Blood Knights are a bit pricey, but cheaper than chaos knights, and much cheaper than Morghasts. Zombies aren't the cheapest unit per model in the game - I haven't looked at everything but gnoblars and moonclan stabbas at least are cheaper. 300 for 40 reinforced seems pretty reasonable to me for 40 bodies that explode on 6s when they die in melee, bring back 20 for a command point after the entire unit dies, and have access to a few different support and recursion options beyond that. In general, the unit points costs for soulblight all look kind of low to me, but the hero costs all feel very high. We'll see though, again I'm not the guy to judge points efficiency.
Oh, are Blood-born allowed to be good now?... No, they can't be reinforced. Still bad by default. I still might field them early in the edition due to my limited selection of painted models....
...
Hard to comment on regiments of renown without knowing what they do, but it's worth pointing out that the points costs of the regiments do not necessarily match that of the units they include. Arkhan + 4 morghasts in 'the liche's hand' for instance costs 830, while the same units in a bonereapers army would cost 950.
...
Now I just have to put together some army lists.
Tentative 2k OBR with arkhan:
Detachment 1: Arkhan (general)
Spell Lore: OBR
Manifestation Lore: OBR
Faction Terrain: Nexus
Total Points: 1940, just under the 1950 cut off for the 'underpoints' bonus.
Tactics: Liece & deathriders use their scout move to grab objectives and/or interdict the enemy army early, tax man, harvester & mortek block trundle up to occupy table center, crawler gets some early damage in - notably synergistic with the 'retreat and charge' rd ability - liege calls retreat & charge, pulls himself & the kav out of combat, crawler lands some hits in for damage and maybe strike last, kavalos rejoin the fray with charge bonuses. Arkhan makes trouble wherever the opponent doesn't want him, in particular getting the manifestations out early.
Only regret is not being able to fit immortis (my favorite models in the range) or morghast archai (who feel like they should go with arkhan). Crawler also ends up pretty exposed to enemy deep strike/outflank units.
Maybe not the most optimized, but there's decent model variety and it should look and feel like an army on the table.
Detachment 1: Arkhan (general)
- Liege Kavalos (charge debuff trait, control debuff item)
- 5 Deathriders
- 5 Deathriders
- 20 Mortek Guard (probably getting the retinue bonus)
- Harvester
- Crawler
Spell Lore: OBR
Manifestation Lore: OBR
Faction Terrain: Nexus
Total Points: 1940, just under the 1950 cut off for the 'underpoints' bonus.
Tactics: Liece & deathriders use their scout move to grab objectives and/or interdict the enemy army early, tax man, harvester & mortek block trundle up to occupy table center, crawler gets some early damage in - notably synergistic with the 'retreat and charge' rd ability - liege calls retreat & charge, pulls himself & the kav out of combat, crawler lands some hits in for damage and maybe strike last, kavalos rejoin the fray with charge bonuses. Arkhan makes trouble wherever the opponent doesn't want him, in particular getting the manifestations out early.
Only regret is not being able to fit immortis (my favorite models in the range) or morghast archai (who feel like they should go with arkhan). Crawler also ends up pretty exposed to enemy deep strike/outflank units.
Maybe not the most optimized, but there's decent model variety and it should look and feel like an army on the table.
El Syf
Vargheist
I was leaning more towards OBR but given the points and what I was planning on (morghastnagashmash) it’s not really feasible now. Did not expect morghasts to be quite so expensive.
Morghasts are /very/ prices, but even so Nagash plus morghasts has kind of always been a '3k+ narrative big event game' type army.
That said, at 2k you could go for a meme list:
Nagash
1960 so you don't get low points
that's a meme list, not serious at all, but probably cool to see on the table.
EDIT: replace the two units of 2 harbingers with a single reinforced unit of 4. Use their extra charge die to throw them at the opponent as fast as possible, and when they die Nagash can bring the whole unit back, with a good chance to charge them back in on the same turn that you re-summon them.
I actually kind of want to run this now....
....
Trying for something a little less memey...
Nagash
2000 points on the nose
The archai are there for aesthetics and flavor, feel free to swap them for harbingers, which would probably be better, or for 20 more mortek guard, which would probably be much better, or for 10 mortek guard and a teratic cohort to sit/deep strike onto objectives. The immortis can also be swapped out to give the liege 5 more deathriders.
EDIT: If you do trade things around to grab 5 more deathriders, I think you should use them to reinforce the first unit rather than add a second. yeah, that doesn't leave you many units to work with, but it does allow Nagash to bring back 10 whole deathriders (30 wounds!) after the first 10 die, and you'll be using the formation to throw them into the enemy's face straight away, so they will eventually die.
which, yeah, there's a bit more room to play around than I thought there'd be with nagash. I still think he's better in the other undead armies, which have cheaper hoardier options to fill out your numbers around him a bit more.
That said, at 2k you could go for a meme list:
Nagash
2 morghast harbingers2 morghast harbingers- 4 morghast harbingers
- 2 morghast archai
- 2 morghast archai
1960 so you don't get low points
that's a meme list, not serious at all, but probably cool to see on the table.
EDIT: replace the two units of 2 harbingers with a single reinforced unit of 4. Use their extra charge die to throw them at the opponent as fast as possible, and when they die Nagash can bring the whole unit back, with a good chance to charge them back in on the same turn that you re-summon them.
I actually kind of want to run this now....
....
Trying for something a little less memey...
Nagash
- 2 Morghast Archai
- 3 Immortis Guard
- 20 Mortek Guard
- 5 Deathriders
2000 points on the nose
The archai are there for aesthetics and flavor, feel free to swap them for harbingers, which would probably be better, or for 20 more mortek guard, which would probably be much better, or for 10 mortek guard and a teratic cohort to sit/deep strike onto objectives. The immortis can also be swapped out to give the liege 5 more deathriders.
EDIT: If you do trade things around to grab 5 more deathriders, I think you should use them to reinforce the first unit rather than add a second. yeah, that doesn't leave you many units to work with, but it does allow Nagash to bring back 10 whole deathriders (30 wounds!) after the first 10 die, and you'll be using the formation to throw them into the enemy's face straight away, so they will eventually die.
which, yeah, there's a bit more room to play around than I thought there'd be with nagash. I still think he's better in the other undead armies, which have cheaper hoardier options to fill out your numbers around him a bit more.
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The more I look at them, the more ~wild~ 270 looks as a points cost for only 2 morghasts. Did someone forget they don't come with 3 to a unit? Maybe I'm wrong. Hopefully I'm wrong. I don't dislike the warscrolls, but I do think they'll need to come down like upwards of 50 points.
Stalkers also look overpriced for what they do, but the bigger problem is they don't do what they should. Give them damage 2, or their big charge back, preferably both, then their points could even come up some.
Don't really have strong opinions on any of the other points. Will have to see them in person. Like, harvester & crawler are very pricey, but maybe worth it for what they do? I just don't know. there's not direct comparisons within the faction that make them look bad, like there are for morghasts & stalkers.
Again, though, even if those units are mispointed, points get fixed. More important that the warscrolls do more or less what they should, and my only big complaint there for the faction is the stalkers just not hitting hard enough.
Stalkers also look overpriced for what they do, but the bigger problem is they don't do what they should. Give them damage 2, or their big charge back, preferably both, then their points could even come up some.
Don't really have strong opinions on any of the other points. Will have to see them in person. Like, harvester & crawler are very pricey, but maybe worth it for what they do? I just don't know. there's not direct comparisons within the faction that make them look bad, like there are for morghasts & stalkers.
Again, though, even if those units are mispointed, points get fixed. More important that the warscrolls do more or less what they should, and my only big complaint there for the faction is the stalkers just not hitting hard enough.
Ok, I thought again and realized how well Nagash's revive ability works with reinforced harbingers, lets try to do something halfway serious with that. Nagash and 4 harbingers leaves only 580 points to work with, 530 if you want the extra command point in the first battle round. You definitely want a blob of mortek for numbers, maybe a unit of deathriders to have something else quick that can move for objectives, or that can screen nagash on the move. That would leave 140 points left... Boneshaper for some healing? 10 more mortek to just sit an objective? If sitting an objective is the goal, then Teratic Cohort is probably the go to option thanks to their faster move and deep strike. So that looks like....
Nagash
OBR spells, manifestations, and terrain
points total: 2000 on the nose
Single drop, which seems super rare this edition, you should pretty much always have the choice of who goes first on the first turn.
Tactics: throw Harbingers at the opponent as fast as possible, Mortek guard & Nagash claim the center, Teratic Cohort deep strike onto an open objective, Death riders either go for objectives or help screen Nagash if needed. When the harbingers die, Nagash brings all four back and sends them straight back into combat thanks to their 3d6 flying charge. If the Mortek guard die you get 5+ rolls for the rest of the game to bring 10 of them back, too.
Variant: dro pthe death riders and teratic cohort, add another block of 20 mortek guard. Fewer and slower units to go for objectives, and fewer wounds on the table, but more models, and with two big mortek blocks more likely to get one back from the formation. Maybe better? I'm not sure.
Either way, no other heroes, no artefacts, no diversionary tactics, no crawler, a hideous 540 points spent on a single unit after already spending 880 on nagash, but.... does this look half-way viable, or am I just fooling myself?
Nagash
- 4 Harbingers
- 20 Mortek Guard
- 5 Death Riders
- 8 Teratic Cohort
OBR spells, manifestations, and terrain
points total: 2000 on the nose
Single drop, which seems super rare this edition, you should pretty much always have the choice of who goes first on the first turn.
Tactics: throw Harbingers at the opponent as fast as possible, Mortek guard & Nagash claim the center, Teratic Cohort deep strike onto an open objective, Death riders either go for objectives or help screen Nagash if needed. When the harbingers die, Nagash brings all four back and sends them straight back into combat thanks to their 3d6 flying charge. If the Mortek guard die you get 5+ rolls for the rest of the game to bring 10 of them back, too.
Variant: dro pthe death riders and teratic cohort, add another block of 20 mortek guard. Fewer and slower units to go for objectives, and fewer wounds on the table, but more models, and with two big mortek blocks more likely to get one back from the formation. Maybe better? I'm not sure.
Either way, no other heroes, no artefacts, no diversionary tactics, no crawler, a hideous 540 points spent on a single unit after already spending 880 on nagash, but.... does this look half-way viable, or am I just fooling myself?
El Syf
Vargheist
I actually really like it and as I don’t play in tournaments, it’s primarily all about fun and lolz that list is definitely getting a run out. Don’t have death riders or the cohort so another blob of mortek it will be.
Feel like unless his scroll is different Nagash is super useful in soulblight too if you can stomach the points.
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Nobody has the cohort yet, Warcry stuff of late has been almost as painfully delayed as old world releases. not sure what's going on there.
I agree nagash is probably better in soulblight. Honestly I think he's better in /any/ of the other death armies thanks to having access to cheaper chaff units to fill out the rest of your list with. Off the cuff I'd guess he'll be best in FEC, thanks to basically automatically jumping to 6 noble deeds points in your first hero phase on casting alone. Yeah he can't use those points for recursion, but he can proc feeding frenzy, and spreads it over a huge area thanks to his giant base.
He's probably /less/ good than Ushoran in the same army, but he's probably better in that army than anywhere else.
I really do like his 4e warscroll. IMO it's the best nagash scroll yet in aos in terms of playably capturing the idea of Nagash on the table without being busted or at all confusing. Really goes to show how flavorful 4e warscrolls /can/ be even if the presentation is very gamey and toyish.
Only issue is the points. 880 is ~probably~ too much, but with that full unit revive especially it's hard to say. On the one hand, it can bring back absolutely absurd points values. 540 points of morghasts (though they're overpriced themselves. 460 points of blood knights is a pretty terrifying thought. 6 morbheg knights, 20 bladegheists... On the other hand there's kind of a built in balancing factor to it, because you're already spending nearly 900 points on nagash, so if you also take a huge unit for him to revive then you leave yourself almost no points to work with for anything else.
It's interesting. It makes building around him a fun thought exercise.
I agree nagash is probably better in soulblight. Honestly I think he's better in /any/ of the other death armies thanks to having access to cheaper chaff units to fill out the rest of your list with. Off the cuff I'd guess he'll be best in FEC, thanks to basically automatically jumping to 6 noble deeds points in your first hero phase on casting alone. Yeah he can't use those points for recursion, but he can proc feeding frenzy, and spreads it over a huge area thanks to his giant base.
He's probably /less/ good than Ushoran in the same army, but he's probably better in that army than anywhere else.
I really do like his 4e warscroll. IMO it's the best nagash scroll yet in aos in terms of playably capturing the idea of Nagash on the table without being busted or at all confusing. Really goes to show how flavorful 4e warscrolls /can/ be even if the presentation is very gamey and toyish.
Only issue is the points. 880 is ~probably~ too much, but with that full unit revive especially it's hard to say. On the one hand, it can bring back absolutely absurd points values. 540 points of morghasts (though they're overpriced themselves. 460 points of blood knights is a pretty terrifying thought. 6 morbheg knights, 20 bladegheists... On the other hand there's kind of a built in balancing factor to it, because you're already spending nearly 900 points on nagash, so if you also take a huge unit for him to revive then you leave yourself almost no points to work with for anything else.
It's interesting. It makes building around him a fun thought exercise.
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Speaking of Nagash in Soulblight:
Nagssh-Mortis-Deadwalker mortal damage engine
Nagash (general)
2000 points even
The Engine: nagash machine-gun fires his signature spell to deal d3 damage to every enemy unit wholly within 18" of his giant pie plate base, fully charging the Mortis Engine each turn, which then deals an additional 6 mortal damage to three of those units on a 3+ each. Deadwalker zombies stand between the engine and the enemy, dealing additional mortals as they die on a 6+, plus the formation lets up to 3 wolf/zombie units do extra mortals at the end of every turn (yours and your opponents) while shuffling around.
Nagash fully brings back one of the units once per game, the rest bring back half the unit with a command point.
Variants: Maybe combine the two 20 man deadwalkers into one 40 for extra chewwyness? They're as is to have more units to do the shuffle and to be able to amble towards unoccupied objectives. Maybe combine the dire wolves into one unit of 20? doing so gives a stronger (sorta) army for Nagash's special retinue, plus a second option of 40 wound unit to fully revive. They're as they are again to have more shuffle units and to be able to go after different objectives. Not sure what's better there.
Should be a nightmare to fight for any super elite enemies especially - anything that relies on quality of attacks and wounds (high save, high rend) over quantity of wounds and damage output should struggle to get through 120 wounds of chaff (not counting recursion) before the damage engine absolutely chews them apart, especially with the chaff contributing even more mortal damage along the way.
Nagssh-Mortis-Deadwalker mortal damage engine
Nagash (general)
- 10 Dire Wolves
- 10 Dire Wolves
- 40 Deadwalker Zombies
- 20 Deadwalker Zombies
- 20 Deadwalker Zombies
2000 points even
The Engine: nagash machine-gun fires his signature spell to deal d3 damage to every enemy unit wholly within 18" of his giant pie plate base, fully charging the Mortis Engine each turn, which then deals an additional 6 mortal damage to three of those units on a 3+ each. Deadwalker zombies stand between the engine and the enemy, dealing additional mortals as they die on a 6+, plus the formation lets up to 3 wolf/zombie units do extra mortals at the end of every turn (yours and your opponents) while shuffling around.
Nagash fully brings back one of the units once per game, the rest bring back half the unit with a command point.
Variants: Maybe combine the two 20 man deadwalkers into one 40 for extra chewwyness? They're as is to have more units to do the shuffle and to be able to amble towards unoccupied objectives. Maybe combine the dire wolves into one unit of 20? doing so gives a stronger (sorta) army for Nagash's special retinue, plus a second option of 40 wound unit to fully revive. They're as they are again to have more shuffle units and to be able to go after different objectives. Not sure what's better there.
Should be a nightmare to fight for any super elite enemies especially - anything that relies on quality of attacks and wounds (high save, high rend) over quantity of wounds and damage output should struggle to get through 120 wounds of chaff (not counting recursion) before the damage engine absolutely chews them apart, especially with the chaff contributing even more mortal damage along the way.
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more casual variant, for when you want to still have friends at that club the next day: Trade Nagash for the 'Liche's Hand' - consolidating either the zombies into 2x40 or the wolves into 1x20 to fit them all into a single battalion under the mortis engine. Build works more or less the same, except instead of reliably charging the engine to full every round you'll probably only charge it to around half. AND you'll lose 5+ ward for your stuff & extra mortals on the opponent from Nagash's spell, AND you'll have a harder time fitting units into invocation due to having to measure from the mortis engine's smaller base, and you'll lose that one full unit revive per game, etc etc. But on the up side you'll have a couple extra fast flying independent hammer units to play around with, and liche's hand is 50 points cheaper than Nagash, so you'll get the extra command point in round 1.
And you'll get to pretend like the Legion of Sacrament is still a thing.
Edit: Geeze, I really want to run this actually? Both the Nagash and the Arkhan variants. Dang. The stuff I need to paint does not align too well with the stuff I've already got painted. 20 zombies and 10 dire wolves, though I kind of want to change the dire wolf scheme, and the zombies need touch ups as well, but even if I don't touch those until I've painted everything else that'd still be... 60 zombies? Do I even have that many zombies, after rebasing a bunch onto squares for old world? Plus 10 dire wolves, and I'd have to actually get around to painting the mortis engine, Nagash, and finish fixing my Arkhan conversion?
A lot of work, especially when I think SBGL is likely to be one of the earlier books in 4e, and the build could easily be dead even before then if everyone else thinks its as broken as I do and the devs decide they need to do something about it.
Oof. Still though, I want it pretty badly....
NO! I need to finish my spearhead first! And my Bloodbowl Team! Don't get distracted!
And you'll get to pretend like the Legion of Sacrament is still a thing.
Edit: Geeze, I really want to run this actually? Both the Nagash and the Arkhan variants. Dang. The stuff I need to paint does not align too well with the stuff I've already got painted. 20 zombies and 10 dire wolves, though I kind of want to change the dire wolf scheme, and the zombies need touch ups as well, but even if I don't touch those until I've painted everything else that'd still be... 60 zombies? Do I even have that many zombies, after rebasing a bunch onto squares for old world? Plus 10 dire wolves, and I'd have to actually get around to painting the mortis engine, Nagash, and finish fixing my Arkhan conversion?
A lot of work, especially when I think SBGL is likely to be one of the earlier books in 4e, and the build could easily be dead even before then if everyone else thinks its as broken as I do and the devs decide they need to do something about it.
Oof. Still though, I want it pretty badly....
NO! I need to finish my spearhead first! And my Bloodbowl Team! Don't get distracted!
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The death faction packs are here! Lets goooooooooooooooooooo!
El Syf
Vargheist
I have to say I’m made up with Vhordrai, just trying to figure out if him, Neferata and a unit of blood knights going round the table causing havoc is worth the points sink and how much havoc could actually be caused?
the main things I wanted didn't happen (make the combat units - reapers, revenants, and harridans - actually feel and play differently from one another on the table; make the coach good; give olynder a warscroll on par with her mortarch peers - though we already knew this last wish wasn't happening) so i feel less upbeat about the faction overall than I maybe should. A lot of the units do look good, and the combat units do all look decent for their points, even if I still don't think they look different enough from one another to be worth taking up multiple warscrolls in the book and multiple products in the range.
EDIT: The more I read, the more hype I get, though. Grimghasts + Cairn Wraith looks nasty. Awlrach, Reikenor, and Kurdoss look great. Scriptor looks fun and techy - and as a sub hero should be easy to fit them in. Lots of good stuff here.
Me reading Awlrach's rules
EDIT: The more I read, the more hype I get, though. Grimghasts + Cairn Wraith looks nasty. Awlrach, Reikenor, and Kurdoss look great. Scriptor looks fun and techy - and as a sub hero should be easy to fit them in. Lots of good stuff here.
Me reading Awlrach's rules
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Hahahahah I can relate to the I*M ON A BOAT! Jesus christ Awlrach is insane, and he gave the army just what it needed: deepstrike close the enemy!
PS. I wouldn't sleep on the Black Coach, if you take the subfaction it becomes an incredible buff piece of a moving castle.
PS. I wouldn't sleep on the Black Coach, if you take the subfaction it becomes an incredible buff piece of a moving castle.
Wholly within 6" is just too tight for me, from past experience it's not really fun to play an army based around that kind of tactic. Plus, to make that work you'd want two, maybe three of them, and each one is a us$150 model that takes approximately 83 years to assemble and paint, and which must be transported to games on a silk pillow carried by a separate team of devoted monks if you don't want to always be playing with some bit of it broken off.
I don't want them to be good if you play them in a dedicated side army that requires you to run multiples of them to function any more than I want them to be good in a weird situational techy way that maybe only happens once every celestial alignment of mars and jupiter. It's a big expensive centerpiece model, it should just. be. good. It should be good in blunt obvious ways that make the devs worry its maybe too good, so that they then feel compelled to give it a prohibitive points cost - one befitting its real world money price.
But whatever, if I don't like its rules I don't have to run one, which saves me a ton of money and a hobby project I'd probably never finish. Nighthaunt aren't on my short list for 4e anyway, and when I do get around to them there's plenty in the army that I do like, so nbd.
I don't want them to be good if you play them in a dedicated side army that requires you to run multiples of them to function any more than I want them to be good in a weird situational techy way that maybe only happens once every celestial alignment of mars and jupiter. It's a big expensive centerpiece model, it should just. be. good. It should be good in blunt obvious ways that make the devs worry its maybe too good, so that they then feel compelled to give it a prohibitive points cost - one befitting its real world money price.
But whatever, if I don't like its rules I don't have to run one, which saves me a ton of money and a hobby project I'd probably never finish. Nighthaunt aren't on my short list for 4e anyway, and when I do get around to them there's plenty in the army that I do like, so nbd.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
I agree that wholly within 6" kinda ruins Neffy's best feature.
Seems like black knights might be okay again? That's nice as they been in a weird spot for ages now. But it looks like Grave Guard lost their 2 damage. Mostly it looks like everything is the same as it used to be with only minor tweaks. Also a shame there aren't any vampire lineages anymore from what I could see. I'm sure that'll come out in the actual battle tome.
Seems like black knights might be okay again? That's nice as they been in a weird spot for ages now. But it looks like Grave Guard lost their 2 damage. Mostly it looks like everything is the same as it used to be with only minor tweaks. Also a shame there aren't any vampire lineages anymore from what I could see. I'm sure that'll come out in the actual battle tome.
I really like the new black knights now yeah. They're very much the mounted wights they originally were and always should have been. They should be great.
Grave guard... yeah, effectively they lost their great weapons. You can still give the models great weapons, but the stat lines (4+ armor, damage 1) are clearly written for the sword and board build. They're still really solid, and I like that they have a rule that actually lets them guard heroes. Big flavor win imo. But without the damage 2 option they won't be chewing up entire units like they used to, at least not without working way harder to stack buffs on them. There are buffs to stack, though. Radukar (either version), Mannfred, Wight King, necromancer, deathmarch, etc.
I think overall they're less strong than they used to be, but they're still far from weak, and they actually gained extra flavor to their rules going from 3e to 4e, so all in all I'm happy with them.
I wish I was happier with basic skeletons. If they'd increased the unit size to 20, I think I would be. I'd also be happier with the wight kings if they could be taken as sub heroes in the battalions of big faction & sub-faction leaders like Nagash, the mortarchs, Lauka, Vhordrai, VLOZD, etc. I really do believe we would be able to, but for the pile of random vykos heroes crowding more generic heroes out of that important option. Which is exactly why I've been saying for a while now that the cursed city stuff should have been kicked to legends. But I can't complain ~too~ hard about that because several of the vyrkos unique heroes look pretty strong and/or fun to play with.
Grave guard... yeah, effectively they lost their great weapons. You can still give the models great weapons, but the stat lines (4+ armor, damage 1) are clearly written for the sword and board build. They're still really solid, and I like that they have a rule that actually lets them guard heroes. Big flavor win imo. But without the damage 2 option they won't be chewing up entire units like they used to, at least not without working way harder to stack buffs on them. There are buffs to stack, though. Radukar (either version), Mannfred, Wight King, necromancer, deathmarch, etc.
I think overall they're less strong than they used to be, but they're still far from weak, and they actually gained extra flavor to their rules going from 3e to 4e, so all in all I'm happy with them.
I wish I was happier with basic skeletons. If they'd increased the unit size to 20, I think I would be. I'd also be happier with the wight kings if they could be taken as sub heroes in the battalions of big faction & sub-faction leaders like Nagash, the mortarchs, Lauka, Vhordrai, VLOZD, etc. I really do believe we would be able to, but for the pile of random vykos heroes crowding more generic heroes out of that important option. Which is exactly why I've been saying for a while now that the cursed city stuff should have been kicked to legends. But I can't complain ~too~ hard about that because several of the vyrkos unique heroes look pretty strong and/or fun to play with.
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El Syf
Vargheist
It does feel like the army is bloated by the cursed city stuff which had a very weird life from the outset. Are those models still available to purchase? If not that makes it even weirder that they’d clog the army up with them and not try and sell them.
NIGHTHAUNT HOT TAKE TIME!
Okay, so this is just because I'm super hyped - and everything I say should be taken with extreme amounts of salt because I haven't played a single game of 4e yet, this is all just because I'm vibing
Battle traits: I really like how the army is more of a mixed arms approach now that the charge debuffs are tied to different unit types.
Subfactions: To me there is only one: There is no escape. Run, retreat and charge is just mega good. Honourable mention would be the Black Coach build if you want a moving castle army.
Lady Olynder ✪✪✪✩✩
She seems decent because of her good spell and the fact that she is a two cast. Good durability, and a nice one use recursion. But I think she will probably be a bit like in the old book: Jack of all trades, master of none.
Kurdoss Valentian ✪✪✩✩✩
Meh. He is not so slappy as I would have liked, and at 200 pts I think you can get better hitting power elsewhere.
Awlrach the Drowner ✪✪✪✪✪
Absolutely amazing because he does something that Nighthaunt really needs: teleports himself and a unit 7" away from enemies - setting up for our all important charges. Funny detail that he is a War Machine which is also useful as it means that he can use Stun when charging.
Reikenor the Grimhailer ✪✪✪✪✪
Fantastic. He is super fast, can be a two cast with +1 to cast and he absolutely slaps (especially enemy priests and wizards). At 210 pts I find it hard to think of something that I would rather have.
Scriptor Mortis ✪✪✪✩✩
Hard to figure out but it looks good. It is a threat that the opponent needs to answer before the late game because the damage increases exponentially as the game goes on. A nice detail that the Scriptor can join other regiments as a Cursed Soul, so it doesn't take up a regiment slot itself.
Tomb Banshee ✪✪✩✩✩
Strong ability to shut down enemy commands... but it is just too hard to get through.
Knight of Shrouds ✪✪✪✪✩
If you run any type of infantry build (which most Nighthaunt lists will be) this is a great pick because of the +1 to hit (that doesn't take up a command point).
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed ✪✪✪✩✩
Might be as good as the foot version, but I just don't think that mounted lists will be as strong, but of course this is all guesswork.
Cairn Wraith ✪✪✪✪✪
Clearly this rating is assuming that you bring the Wraith together with Grimghast Reapers. With that said: +1 attacks on a unit with a strong combat profile like reapers are just nutty. On top of that the Wraith doesn't take up a regiment slot. Just great.
Krulghast Cruciator ✪✪✪✪✩
One of the reasons that Nighthaunt have struggled in the past is because they absolutely melt to AoE mortal wound abilities (spells and such). If I understand the Empowered through Excruciation correctly it very much mitigates this issue, so I think that the Cruciator will be Crucial (pun inteded) in any castle build.
Lord Executioner ✪✪✪✩✩
Good slappy profile and a 5+ ward seems ok. Not really a needed piece in any army I think, but given that the executioner doesn't take up a regiment slot it could be worth it.
TO BE CONTINUED
Okay, so this is just because I'm super hyped - and everything I say should be taken with extreme amounts of salt because I haven't played a single game of 4e yet, this is all just because I'm vibing
Battle traits: I really like how the army is more of a mixed arms approach now that the charge debuffs are tied to different unit types.
Subfactions: To me there is only one: There is no escape. Run, retreat and charge is just mega good. Honourable mention would be the Black Coach build if you want a moving castle army.
Lady Olynder ✪✪✪✩✩
She seems decent because of her good spell and the fact that she is a two cast. Good durability, and a nice one use recursion. But I think she will probably be a bit like in the old book: Jack of all trades, master of none.
Kurdoss Valentian ✪✪✩✩✩
Meh. He is not so slappy as I would have liked, and at 200 pts I think you can get better hitting power elsewhere.
Awlrach the Drowner ✪✪✪✪✪
Absolutely amazing because he does something that Nighthaunt really needs: teleports himself and a unit 7" away from enemies - setting up for our all important charges. Funny detail that he is a War Machine which is also useful as it means that he can use Stun when charging.
Reikenor the Grimhailer ✪✪✪✪✪
Fantastic. He is super fast, can be a two cast with +1 to cast and he absolutely slaps (especially enemy priests and wizards). At 210 pts I find it hard to think of something that I would rather have.
Scriptor Mortis ✪✪✪✩✩
Hard to figure out but it looks good. It is a threat that the opponent needs to answer before the late game because the damage increases exponentially as the game goes on. A nice detail that the Scriptor can join other regiments as a Cursed Soul, so it doesn't take up a regiment slot itself.
Tomb Banshee ✪✪✩✩✩
Strong ability to shut down enemy commands... but it is just too hard to get through.
Knight of Shrouds ✪✪✪✪✩
If you run any type of infantry build (which most Nighthaunt lists will be) this is a great pick because of the +1 to hit (that doesn't take up a command point).
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed ✪✪✪✩✩
Might be as good as the foot version, but I just don't think that mounted lists will be as strong, but of course this is all guesswork.
Cairn Wraith ✪✪✪✪✪
Clearly this rating is assuming that you bring the Wraith together with Grimghast Reapers. With that said: +1 attacks on a unit with a strong combat profile like reapers are just nutty. On top of that the Wraith doesn't take up a regiment slot. Just great.
Krulghast Cruciator ✪✪✪✪✩
One of the reasons that Nighthaunt have struggled in the past is because they absolutely melt to AoE mortal wound abilities (spells and such). If I understand the Empowered through Excruciation correctly it very much mitigates this issue, so I think that the Cruciator will be Crucial (pun inteded) in any castle build.
Lord Executioner ✪✪✪✩✩
Good slappy profile and a 5+ ward seems ok. Not really a needed piece in any army I think, but given that the executioner doesn't take up a regiment slot it could be worth it.
TO BE CONTINUED
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I think you're underselling Kurdoss. Messing with command abilities should be a pretty big deal in 4e, and he is still quite slappy for his points - damage 3 goes a long way - especially with access to hit and wound buffs in faction. Outside of nagash, who's in a completely different weight class, the only nighthaunt hero who comes close in damage output is Reikenor.
I'm not arguing that the Craven King is even close to as good as the Grimhailer, but Reikenor is that kind of "6/5" good that can make otherwise very good peers look bad by comparison. In all likelyhood Reikenor is pretty sorely underpointed and I wouldn't be surprised to seem him north of 250 by this time next year, at which point I think Kurdoss's 200 won't feel like so much.
As is, I'd give Kurdoss a 3/5 right now myself, and I think even I might be underselling his ability to mess with command points.
I'm not arguing that the Craven King is even close to as good as the Grimhailer, but Reikenor is that kind of "6/5" good that can make otherwise very good peers look bad by comparison. In all likelyhood Reikenor is pretty sorely underpointed and I wouldn't be surprised to seem him north of 250 by this time next year, at which point I think Kurdoss's 200 won't feel like so much.
As is, I'd give Kurdoss a 3/5 right now myself, and I think even I might be underselling his ability to mess with command points.
If you previously had heavy hexwraith builds for the various weird gimmicks they had (bodyguard in late 2e, their weird turbo-boost ability in 3e), then if you still want to use them at all then you might want the knight of shrouds for support, since in this ruleset hexwraiths actually have to get into combat and do some actual damage if they want to contribute. The other reason you might want to bring a mounted knight of shrouds is that he's both a hero and a cavalry unit, so he can do either stun or petrify as needed, or even both at the same time Terrifying Entity.
Terrifying Entity is a weird case. It's basically only usable on a mounted knight of shrouds. None of the other non-unique nighthaunt heroes are cavalry or war machines, and the infantry heroes will never outnumber an eney unit and thus cannot use shriek. The ability sounded much better, and much more usable, in early leaks that made it sound like it let you use the same aura of dread twice in the same turn - so two petrifies, or with a mounted knight of shrouds potentially two stuns.
As it is, yeah, it's a mounted knight of shrouds only heroic trait that lets you stun and petrify off the same hero, potentially relevant if you're trying to keep your drops low and are worried about losing access to one or the other due to casualties, but probably not what you take.
Terrifying Entity is a weird case. It's basically only usable on a mounted knight of shrouds. None of the other non-unique nighthaunt heroes are cavalry or war machines, and the infantry heroes will never outnumber an eney unit and thus cannot use shriek. The ability sounded much better, and much more usable, in early leaks that made it sound like it let you use the same aura of dread twice in the same turn - so two petrifies, or with a mounted knight of shrouds potentially two stuns.
As it is, yeah, it's a mounted knight of shrouds only heroic trait that lets you stun and petrify off the same hero, potentially relevant if you're trying to keep your drops low and are worried about losing access to one or the other due to casualties, but probably not what you take.
first draft try at a nighthaunt list:
Reikenor
formation: either hunters or stalkers. Stalkers is probably best (as usual), but with 5 heroes to work with hunters also looks really good.
2000 points even, if I added it all right
3 drops, which hurts, but nighthaunt heroes are so good, and their units in general so cheap, that it's hard to cram everything into two. But while you're probably giving the choice of who goes first to your opponent, that's a very hard choice. He either goes second, and lets you choke the board with ghosts and probably alpha rush something with Awlrach & his 20 bladegheists, or he can go first, which will likely put you in charge range with your entire army and threaten a decisive double turn of charging with aura of dread later in the match.
3 infantry units with 20 models to threaten shriek, including 2 big beaty blocks of 20 grimchasts with cairn wraith, 3 cavalry/war machine units to threaten stun, 5 heroes to petrify with. Spirit Guardian has a bodyguard of spirit hosts, tempting to throw him in early for his combat buff, but I'd try to keep him safely out of combat playing spell support until he's had a chance to trigger ruler of the spectral hosts, probably to call back 10 bladegheists. Speaking of, Awlrach teleports and charges with them doing as much early damage and disruption as possible, hopefully with +1 to charge from a first turn terminexus courtesy of reikenor. Like the gos, reikenor probably hangs around behind the grimghasts, charging in with or shortly after them, but can range ahead with the dreadblades screening for him if that's a better option in a given game than just playing teleportation shenanigans with them.
Oh, also the list is pretty much all my favorite models in the range, the only problem being that the cairn wraith is kind of bad, and I'd look for alternative model options. Maybe fancify a couple spare grimchasts left over from the weird small unit in the 2e box? Or buy a couple spares of the cool, pointing executioner models and weapon swap their axes for scythes? If you're not playing in a GW store or official event then there's no end of 3rd party options.
Reikenor
- Cairn Wraith
- 20 grimghasts
- 4 dreadblades
- Cairn Wraith
- 20 Grimghasts
- 20 Bladegheists (special seasonal retinue)
- 3 spirit hosts
formation: either hunters or stalkers. Stalkers is probably best (as usual), but with 5 heroes to work with hunters also looks really good.
2000 points even, if I added it all right
3 drops, which hurts, but nighthaunt heroes are so good, and their units in general so cheap, that it's hard to cram everything into two. But while you're probably giving the choice of who goes first to your opponent, that's a very hard choice. He either goes second, and lets you choke the board with ghosts and probably alpha rush something with Awlrach & his 20 bladegheists, or he can go first, which will likely put you in charge range with your entire army and threaten a decisive double turn of charging with aura of dread later in the match.
3 infantry units with 20 models to threaten shriek, including 2 big beaty blocks of 20 grimchasts with cairn wraith, 3 cavalry/war machine units to threaten stun, 5 heroes to petrify with. Spirit Guardian has a bodyguard of spirit hosts, tempting to throw him in early for his combat buff, but I'd try to keep him safely out of combat playing spell support until he's had a chance to trigger ruler of the spectral hosts, probably to call back 10 bladegheists. Speaking of, Awlrach teleports and charges with them doing as much early damage and disruption as possible, hopefully with +1 to charge from a first turn terminexus courtesy of reikenor. Like the gos, reikenor probably hangs around behind the grimghasts, charging in with or shortly after them, but can range ahead with the dreadblades screening for him if that's a better option in a given game than just playing teleportation shenanigans with them.
Oh, also the list is pretty much all my favorite models in the range, the only problem being that the cairn wraith is kind of bad, and I'd look for alternative model options. Maybe fancify a couple spare grimchasts left over from the weird small unit in the 2e box? Or buy a couple spares of the cool, pointing executioner models and weapon swap their axes for scythes? If you're not playing in a GW store or official event then there's no end of 3rd party options.
HOT TAKES CONTINUED
Dreadblade Harrows ✪✪✪✪✩
They are not cheap, but they are incredibly fast, they can fight a bit (especially if reinforced and uses All Out Attack). Two things make them very attractive I think: they are cavalry, which means they can use Stun (which is such an important debuff for damage output) and their passive ability Curse of Loyalty is a very effective way of stealing objectives (note it also works for themselves). After looking at the Hexwraiths a bit more I thinknthe Dreadblades are maybe slightly worse than the Hexwraiths, so maybe this is more of a 3 star unit?
Guardian of Souls ✪✪✪✪✩
I think it will be hard to leave home without at least one Guardian. It is a semi-cheap caster, and we really need to get Spectral Lure through as often as we can. The buff to wound is also quite strong but means that you will have the Guardian at the front line which is a bit risky.
Pyregheists ✪✪✩✩✩
They are not bad, just too expensive and circumstantial. I would rather take Craventhrone Guard.
Spirit Torment ✪✪✪✩✩
Definitely not as strong as in 3e, but still not a bad way if you want more recursion in your list. Main drawback is that it takes up a regiment slot. Would have been way better as a Cursed Soul.
Grimghast Reapers ✪✪✪✪✪
Absolutely nuts. I can only assume they will go up in price. Reinforce them and bring a Cairn Wraith and your unit will do 60 attacks (20 of which autowound if you attack a unit with 5+ models). This is unit is completely bonkers. I think the Cairn Wraith is almost a mandatory addition if you run Reapers.
Chainghasts ✪✪✩✩✩
Expensive and circumstantial. If they got 20 or 30 pts cheaper they would be very interesting.
Chainrasps ✪✪✪✩✩
Just a solid cheap objective holder.
Black Coach ✪✪✪✪✩
This bad boy has seen a real glow up with a whole subfaction dedicated to it. It is hard to kill, can dish out decent damage and with insane mobility and control score of 5 it can zoom around stealing objectives and applying pressure where needed. Its role changes if you run it in its subfaction where you use its massive base to give 6" aura of 5+ ward. I think this will be the center piece in a durable castle build focussing on recursion.
Craventhrone Guard ✪✪✪✪✩
They are cheap and have a good shooting profile. A reinforced unit of these can be a real nusiance as their damage output is too high to ignore but with 10 models they are really hard to remove.
Bladegheist Revenants ✪✪✪✪✩
Maybe these should only be 3 stars? I will try to be optimistic because I have 50 of them painted... they are more expensive than Grimghasts and their potential is weaker, but their merit is that they can work independently, whereas Grimghasts need support to really spike.
Glaivewraith Stalkers ✪✪✩✩✩
The warscroll is decent now with Charge +1 Damage, they can potentially do some damage, but given that it is a unit of 4 models with 1 health each they would need to be cheaper to be viable in my opinion.
Myrmourn Banshees ✪✪✪✪✩
I think getting access to unbinds outside of heroes will be very important in 4th edition. Even though the unbinding is a bit weaker than it was in 3e this is mitigated by the fact that they now have 2 health each and can do some serious hurt if they are ever stuck in combat.
Spirit Hosts ✪✪✪✪✩
I think this unit is key if you plan to run a lot of heroes (as you would in a castle build). Outside of that type of list they dont have much utility.
Dreadscythe Harridans ✪✪✪✩✩
Im sure that I am missing some synergies and role considerations for the Harridans, so the rating is super duper tentative. On the surface they just look a bit circumstantial and unclear in their role.
Hexwraiths ✪✪✪✪✩
First time I read this warscroll I was a bit low on them (because they lost some damage output), but then I noticed that they have 3 health and 2 control. That means that a reinforced unit is great for charging an enemy objective holder and taking it from them. Also, being cavalry is important to du Stun.
Dreadblade Harrows ✪✪✪✪✩
They are not cheap, but they are incredibly fast, they can fight a bit (especially if reinforced and uses All Out Attack). Two things make them very attractive I think: they are cavalry, which means they can use Stun (which is such an important debuff for damage output) and their passive ability Curse of Loyalty is a very effective way of stealing objectives (note it also works for themselves). After looking at the Hexwraiths a bit more I thinknthe Dreadblades are maybe slightly worse than the Hexwraiths, so maybe this is more of a 3 star unit?
Guardian of Souls ✪✪✪✪✩
I think it will be hard to leave home without at least one Guardian. It is a semi-cheap caster, and we really need to get Spectral Lure through as often as we can. The buff to wound is also quite strong but means that you will have the Guardian at the front line which is a bit risky.
Pyregheists ✪✪✩✩✩
They are not bad, just too expensive and circumstantial. I would rather take Craventhrone Guard.
Spirit Torment ✪✪✪✩✩
Definitely not as strong as in 3e, but still not a bad way if you want more recursion in your list. Main drawback is that it takes up a regiment slot. Would have been way better as a Cursed Soul.
Grimghast Reapers ✪✪✪✪✪
Absolutely nuts. I can only assume they will go up in price. Reinforce them and bring a Cairn Wraith and your unit will do 60 attacks (20 of which autowound if you attack a unit with 5+ models). This is unit is completely bonkers. I think the Cairn Wraith is almost a mandatory addition if you run Reapers.
Chainghasts ✪✪✩✩✩
Expensive and circumstantial. If they got 20 or 30 pts cheaper they would be very interesting.
Chainrasps ✪✪✪✩✩
Just a solid cheap objective holder.
Black Coach ✪✪✪✪✩
This bad boy has seen a real glow up with a whole subfaction dedicated to it. It is hard to kill, can dish out decent damage and with insane mobility and control score of 5 it can zoom around stealing objectives and applying pressure where needed. Its role changes if you run it in its subfaction where you use its massive base to give 6" aura of 5+ ward. I think this will be the center piece in a durable castle build focussing on recursion.
Craventhrone Guard ✪✪✪✪✩
They are cheap and have a good shooting profile. A reinforced unit of these can be a real nusiance as their damage output is too high to ignore but with 10 models they are really hard to remove.
Bladegheist Revenants ✪✪✪✪✩
Maybe these should only be 3 stars? I will try to be optimistic because I have 50 of them painted... they are more expensive than Grimghasts and their potential is weaker, but their merit is that they can work independently, whereas Grimghasts need support to really spike.
Glaivewraith Stalkers ✪✪✩✩✩
The warscroll is decent now with Charge +1 Damage, they can potentially do some damage, but given that it is a unit of 4 models with 1 health each they would need to be cheaper to be viable in my opinion.
Myrmourn Banshees ✪✪✪✪✩
I think getting access to unbinds outside of heroes will be very important in 4th edition. Even though the unbinding is a bit weaker than it was in 3e this is mitigated by the fact that they now have 2 health each and can do some serious hurt if they are ever stuck in combat.
Spirit Hosts ✪✪✪✪✩
I think this unit is key if you plan to run a lot of heroes (as you would in a castle build). Outside of that type of list they dont have much utility.
Dreadscythe Harridans ✪✪✪✩✩
Im sure that I am missing some synergies and role considerations for the Harridans, so the rating is super duper tentative. On the surface they just look a bit circumstantial and unclear in their role.
Hexwraiths ✪✪✪✪✩
First time I read this warscroll I was a bit low on them (because they lost some damage output), but then I noticed that they have 3 health and 2 control. That means that a reinforced unit is great for charging an enemy objective holder and taking it from them. Also, being cavalry is important to du Stun.
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