Can 9th just come out already?

[Sception]

Yeah, despite the coolness of the mechanicus release, my feeling that 40k is a disorganized mess I don't want anything to do with only increases with the bloat of mini factions, rules rendered obsolete after only a year, exclusive rules you have to go to UK to get legitimate access to, new releases every week, and distribution of a given model's rules across core rulebook, codex, FW book, supplement, magazine, dataslate and campaign book, split between profiles, detachments, and formations, continues to make it more and more impossible to have any idea what's going on or what anything is or how anything works.

 

[El Syf]

So, given the round pics do people think it's best to hold off buying for a while? I was going to get Nagash but now I'm not so sure...

 

[Alabaster427]

Well, if you hold off on Nagash, you may not get the opportunity to get him if/when 9th comes out because he may not be in it. As far as Monsters and Chariots (except TK) go, it matters little whether they are on round or square bases because they can't join units. If you want the Nagash model, just get it. It's not likely to be updated and you risk not being able to get it at all, outside of ebay.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

Good advice. Also, it's not like Nagash will be getting any cheaper if you wait. Price tends to go up with GW over time.

 

[Seneschal]

Buy the models you want but don't put them on bases yet just in case...

 

[Sception]

Remember all those cool Nagash conversions through the years, even though he didn't have any rules? Worst that can happen (provided fantasy doesn't collapse altogether under a botched reboot) is we return to that state, where there are no official rules for him but that doesn't stop fans from coming up with some anyway.

And no matter what, he's a cool freaking model, right? Use him in D&D or Pathfinder as an en epic game final boss fight against a corrupt god of death. Just put him on a shelf to look cool.

If you like nagash, I'd pick up the model. You might not be able to later. Now is not a great time to start fantasy altogether, or buy entire units for existing armies, but it is the right time to pick up those one or two special models that you love for your own sake while they're still available at all.

I'm looking at you, Necrosphynx.

 

[najo]

Yeah, despite the coolness of the mechanicus release, my feeling that 40k is a disorganized mess I don't want anything to do with only increases with the bloat of mini factions, rules rendered obsolete after only a year, exclusive rules you have to go to UK to get legitimate access to, new releases every week, and distribution of a given model's rules across core rulebook, codex, FW book, supplement, magazine, dataslate and campaign book, split between profiles, detachments, and formations, continues to make it more and more impossible to have any idea what's going on or what anything is or how anything works.

That is not what's happening. They got it under control. There was a point 40k was doing that and then GW toned it down and they've been doing a good job with most of 7th edition codecies. As of now, each army book is pretty much self contained. Its very clear which factions can work with which factions. The balance is curving right now as they put anti-lords of war options into armies and make dealing with aircraft easier, but as whole, 40k is fairly organized and balanced and it was done quickly, in under a year.

 

[najo]

I would hold off on basing too. We are getting close.

You know, I got thinking about the round bases. Most players I know make their own movement trays and use magnets. If GW went to a round base and made special movement trays that the round bases plugged onto, then GW would gain movement tray revenue as most players would go that route instead of fiddling with magnets. Assuming the product was good. It would also mean that units could go from a skirmished formation to a rank and file formation just by sticking them on a movement tray designed to hold them. That would give us the best of both worlds and there is a rumor that keeps popping up that GW has made some sort of movement tray bases lock on to. Guess we wait and see.

 

[Alabaster427]

Instead of round or square bases, they should be hexagonal bases. They could even interlock with each other. You would still be able to spread them out if you need to, but you could also have the rank and file formations, too.

 

[Eternal flitter]

Instead of round or square bases, they should be hexagonal bases. They could even interlock with each other. You would still be able to spread them out if you need to, but you could also have the rank and file formations, too.

This would only be possible if they were acquired by Ikea... It would freshen up unit names too actually.

 

[Dragonet]

I'd buy a Chaos Pöepli!

 

[Count michael]

Apparantly at Warhammer world there were fantasy armies that had a mixture of units with round bases for cav, monsters or special units (Blight Kings etc, Don't know if this an indication of what's to come but it hopefully this is all that will happen here is a link with pics from Warhammer world showing it, maybe they are getting prepared early cant see any other reason why they would do this
http://natfka.blogspot.co.nz/2015/05/round-bases-for-fantasy-and-more.html

 

[Seneschal]

Count michael, those were already posted.

Check this out, a recently purchased GW model with a round and square base present in the package.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

The new Grey Seer, it appears.

 

[Count michael]

Oops sorry

 

[Alabaster427]

BoLS has a page dedicated to the collection of Fantasy Round-base models spotted at Warhammer World. http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/05/wfb-9th-round-bases-coming-soon.html

 

[Seneschal]

...


anyway, here's some stuff from druchii.net from the mouths of the two most trustworthy rumormongers, harry and hastings...

Latest GOSHIP from Harry & Hastings on Warseer:

Quote:
I think I said it depends on your definition of squatted.
If by squatted you mean can you still use your existing models to play a game ... then no, armies are not getting squatted.
If by squatted you mean that they will not make any more models for that range .... as happened with the Squats in 40K ...then armies are getting squatted.

....and I knew about these pictures when I included Lizardmen in the armies I thought were going to go.

Arthurius first posted about these pictures (Months ago) ... and I think hastings confirmed it.
They are as described .... seeing these pictures does not give me anymore hope that my lovely Lizardmen army will see any more support in the future .... what I see is a studio army painted up for the ... "look fellas you can still use your old models in the new edition" photograph. ... and the "Hey fellas, it does not matter what bases your minis are on ... you can use your old square based minis right along side any new mins you paint that come with round bases ... " - article in White Dwarf.

I suspect we will be seeing more and more of the existing stuff painted up on a mixture of bases.

"Small price" ... Let me just stop you there. Does that sound right to you?

Here's a thought that is going to fester ....

20 models at £10 each = £200
100 models at £2 each = £200
If it costs £1 to make a model Option a) 90% profit Option b) 50% profit
Which do you think GW would go for Option a) or Option b)

I am not saying new stuff will be £10/model ... I was just trying to keep thee maths simple. But you get the point. Even if it were half that and you got 5 new super sculpts in a box for £25 and they were £5 each that is still £80%

... and that is not going anywhere near the fact that if some of those 20 models are big kits that carry even more profit.

So if they can make any profit (never mind a bigger profit) by selling 20 models to an individual who would have never started that first or next fantasy army because of the time/painting commitment to paint 200 models .... they are in Gravy.

.... if folks are ready to build stupid, huge armies to play bigger battles they are laughing all the way to the bank.


They did not imagine back then then that folks would be prepared to pay £10 for a bit of finecast.

Back then folks were buying big fantasy armies.

Back then for £10 I could buy two blister packs with 4 or 5 metal miniatures in each.

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
Just an illustrative example of how you can make more profit by selling less minis.

Having said that .... They are not selling enough warhammer fantasy miniatures now. I do not see them reducing the prices to sell more miniatures ... so if they are going to sell less miniatures .... given that these changes are driven by the intention to make more money ... Yes, I suspect we can look forward to the price per model increasing. But surely that is not news? Plastics used to be 50p a man ... then £1 ... now it seems folks are happy to pay £2 and a good deal more for characters.... Good luck with that.

I expect more big kits. The plastic process seems to lend it self to these and they seem to sell ... and I expect smaller units with more individual / characterful models....that cost about the same as an existing box.

But then I am bitter and twisted.

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
Posts where folks start talking about selling all their models do my head in!
I will not be selling a single model.
Nothing I have ever said suggests suggests that there will not be a mass combat fantasy battle game. Every rumour, from any source seems to suggest that it will all scale up somehow to bigger battles, no one has ever said that there will be a skirmish game FULL STOP.

I have posted elsewhere to suggest that whatever this is comes with very few rules. The rumours suggest it is intended as a gateway product .... Looking at the Lizardmen photo's even IF whatever this is did only needed 20 minis clearly whatever this is a gateway to will need one or two more?

They will make the old models obsolete in the same way they always have... they will try to make newer cooler models so that folks want the new stuff.

Old Perry metal dwarves replaced the Pre slotta Fantasy Tribe Dwarves these were in turn replaced with Aly Morrison Marauder Dwarves then Colin Dixons Miners and Hammerers then their were the Longbeards and Iron Breakers ... we have had 3 or 4 different versions of Plastic Dwarves .... so it goes on ... they have never stopped making new Dwarves .... I have never stopped buying Dwarves.... How many Dwarves do you think I have?????
I still buy Dwarves if I think they are nice minis.

People don't buy new toys because they HAVE to ... they buy new toys because they want to.

My guess is the latter .... although you may not be able to walk into a store. Also I can not know for sure if everything that has been done for any given army has been released? Just because I think they will not be making anything new for some armies does not mean that there is not the odd little surprise still waiting in the wings????

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by 75hastings69 View Post
I can tell you there are several kits and concepts for existing armies that have not yet been released.

Also Harry read your PMs

.

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by Harry View Post
Well I hear what you are saying and I don't disagree with you on any given point but it is too late for that ... The stable door has not just been opened but kicked clean off its hinges and the horse has not just bolted but is over the hill an far away.

There may be one last roll of the die for a couple of armies is all I was suggesting. There is obviously a boat load of stuff coming for the new factions.

Something i still can't get my head around is all the hand ringing going on about Lizardmen ... like they are a special case. They are no more, no less shafted than anyone else. It is far, far easier to count the one or two armies NOT royally stuffed by this than the ones that are ... just saying.

Well that is good to know. I had heard of a few things that had not appeared but I had wondered if they had just shelved everything that was in the pipeline.

I will go check my PM's now

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by 75hastings69 View Post
I've no idea, I just know that some armies (existing under 8th) have models that have not yet been released, likewise CAD stuff/concepts for some, whether these will get released is unknown to me. An example would be the Dwarf Juggernaught update that never came, or the bone giant (that IIRC was finished around the same time as the latest WE Treeman).

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Quote:
Quote Originally Posted by 75hastings69 View Post
I've no idea, I just know that some armies (existing under 8th) have models that have not yet been released, likewise CAD stuff/concepts for some, whether these will get released is unknown to me. An example would be the Dwarf Juggernaught update that never came, or the bone giant (that IIRC was finished around the same time as the latest WE Treeman).​

Says bad things for the future of my beloved Tomb Kings that this model - if it was indeed finished - didn't get released with the End Times content. If ever there was a time people would have snapped it up, it would have been to use with Nagash. Hopefully the brass at GW just decided that the finished model didn't look good enough?


Funny how people give so much stock to what Harry and Hastings say. Notice how much of that is just opinion and speculation? Just goes to show...we aren't going to know anything one way or another until 9th actually hits.

 

[Seneschal]

This time they added in a lot of their own opinions and speculation. The majority of them time, however, they list rumors that end up becoming true. These gentlemen (assuming they are gents, of course) have been correct with about 95% of their rumors since I first saw them on the boards all those years ago.

And yes, I agree with the Tomb King bit. It sucks that it wasn't released but since it wasn't, we don't have to assume that it goes on the largest of bases and can thus model it on a 50mm using the bone giant model.

 

[Blutsauger]

I just can't wait for some actual leaked screen shots of the rulebook.

 

[Hellion Nox]

Went to the shop today and I had a chat with the owner. What he could tell me was that, normally, GW tells their retailers several months before the release what the plans for the new edition are. This time however, GW didn't.

About the game as a whole he told me that all they could was rely on several rumours.

WHFB has had to compete with several skirmisch games lately that have a low cost entry.
The way he said it was. Whenever someone would come into the store, interested in getting started on WHFB, they'd ask the owner what they should buy first.
He'd respond with asking them what their budget is. Say the buyer would have a 75 euro budget, he'd tell them that WHFB is probably not the game to go for them.
Even the more smaller battalion boxes or island of blood set are over their budget.

So thus he said that, most likely, there is going to be the option on how we can mount our models, being either round or on square bases.
There won't be an end to the large scale battles we know, for that is what WHFB aims for in the end. But a smaller level skirmish entry game to lure new people to the hobby.

 

[Sception]

I don't know. Going to 'round or square' bases, and a rule set that accommodates that, is kind of the end of large scale battles. Have you tried to play larger games of 40k? You do so by adding huge models, not multiple large blocks of troops. The latter results in games that basically take forever. Short of multi-day, multi-player mega games, I don't think I've ever seen a 40k game that involved as many models as I field by myself in an average size game of fantasy. Individual model movement (which is what the game pretty much has to be to allow round bases, even if square bases are still an aesthetic option available) just doesn't allow for that By your third or fourth minute spent moving each dude in your 150 model army individually you're ready to forfeit the game and do something else.

 

[Alabaster427]

I don't know. Going to 'round or square' bases, and a rule set that accommodates that, is kind of the end of large scale battles. Have you tried to play larger games of 40k? You do so by adding huge models, not multiple large blocks of troops. The latter results in games that basically take forever. Short of multi-day, multi-player mega games, I don't think I've ever seen a 40k game that involved as many models as I field by myself in an average size game of fantasy. Individual model movement (which is what the game pretty much has to be to allow round bases, even if square bases are still an aesthetic option available) just doesn't allow for that By your third or fourth minute spent moving each dude in your 150 model army individually you're ready to forfeit the game and do something else.

I see your point, but as undead players, we could have a 500 point list that has more models than a 1850 40k list for almost any non-guard army.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

In 8th, yes. But that's only assuming points cost/a million other particularities stay at least similar after the summer.

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

I don't know. Going to 'round or square' bases, and a rule set that accommodates that, is kind of the end of large scale battles. Have you tried to play larger games of 40k? You do so by adding huge models, not multiple large blocks of troops. The latter results in games that basically take forever. Short of multi-day, multi-player mega games, I don't think I've ever seen a 40k game that involved as many models as I field by myself in an average size game of fantasy. Individual model movement (which is what the game pretty much has to be to allow round bases, even if square bases are still an aesthetic option available) just doesn't allow for that By your third or fourth minute spent moving each dude in your 150 model army individually you're ready to forfeit the game and do something else.

Round bases absolutely does not mean individual model movement. GW already has movement trays for round bases, that Demon players have been using for years with their armies based for 40k. No different.