Yesterday i witnessed a ToW game, WoC vs Dawi.
The game got an old wibe and nonetheless seems fresh and good, i like it
The game got an old wibe and nonetheless seems fresh and good, i like it
Game System - Warhammer: The Old World
- Thread starter Count michael
- Start date
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It's got some jank to work out, but I think it's a pretty solid initial outing for the return of rank & flank warhammer.
Good news! The plastic Blood Knights fit on 30x60 cav bases just fine - at least in a single rank. They do hang over the front & back, so making two ranks work might rake some extra effort. The champion's mace extending way out to the side obviously won't fit, so give him a sword or lance instead. you can even still use the cape if you clip the mace arm off & trim it up a bit.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
I'm not rebasing again but putting some card underneath should do the trick. The only real challenge will be with all the infantry. I think I will just have to have the movement trays do the heavy lifting for them. Good thing I'm only playing casually if at all 
25 AoS zombies, on squares for old world. No 'backpacks', except for one with a little bell for the musician and one that I added a corpse cart spear to for the standard bearer.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
Okay maybe a little rebasing. Since these were on 36 circles from AoS they wouldn't have ranked up at all. Glad to have my two favourite couples, Isabella & Vlad and Heinrich & Krell back, even if I have to recreate them out of generic heroes this time around.
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1k points each of Tomb Kings (mortuary cult) and Vampire counts, all properly based for the Old World. Not the best or most optimized, but a buncha cool models to highlight the faction themes in lists that should function reasonably enough to pick up the rules.
This is all very exciting. I've put together a fun 2k list using models I have/want, sadly no room for my poor Varghulf, but he's in at 2.5k! Probably not competitive but hopefully fun and not terrible.
===
Vampire Counts 1 [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Vampire Counts
===
++ Characters [784 pts] ++
Vampire Count [420 pts] Vlad!
- Hand weapon
- No armour
- Level 2 Wizard
- On Foot
- Ogre Blade
- Earthing Rod
- Talisman of Protection
- Master Of The Black Arts
- Curse Of The Revenant
- Supernatural Horror
- Illusion
Master Necromancer [225 pts] Heinrich Kemmler
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On Foot
- Sceptre Of De Noirot
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Necromancy
Wight Lord [139 pts] FW model/Krell Conversion
- Great Weapon
- Heavy Armor
- Battle Standard Bearer (one per army)
- The Accursed Armour
- Standard Of Hellish Vigour
++ Core Units [580 pts] ++
25 Skeleton Warriors [140 pts] Undecided
- Hand weapons & Shields
- Light Armor
- Skeleton Champion
- Standard bearer
- Musician
10 Crypt Ghouls [96 pts] Heresy Minis
- Hand weapons
- Crypt Ghast
5 Dire Wolves [40 pts] Mierce
- Claws and Fangs (Hand weapons)
18 Grave Guard [304 pts] Mierce Conversions
- Hand weapons & Shields
- Heavy Armor
- Implacable Defense (0-1 per 1000pts)
- Seneschal [Obsidian Lodestone]
- Standard bearer [Drakenhof Banner]
- Musician
++ Special Units [175 pts] ++
3 Fell Bats [45 pts] Undecided
- Claws and Fangs (Hand weapons)
1 Corpse Cart [130 pts] Gamezone
- Hand weapon (Corpsemaster)
- Hand weapons (Restless Dead)
- Warped Tintinnabulation (mutually exclusive with Balefire Brazier)
++ Rare Units [461 pts] ++
1 Black Coach [205 pts] GW metal
- Spectral Scythe
- Iron-Shod Hooves (Hand weapons) x 2
5 Blood Knights [256 pts] Gamezone
- Hand weapons
- Lances & Shields
- Iron-Shod Hooves
- Full plate Armor & Barding
- Drilled
- Kastellan
- Standard bearer
- Musician
---
Created with "Old World Builder"
[Old World Builder - Army builder for Warhammer: The Old World and Warhammer Fantasy Battles]
===
Vampire Counts 1 [2000 pts]
Warhammer: The Old World, Vampire Counts
===
++ Characters [784 pts] ++
Vampire Count [420 pts] Vlad!
- Hand weapon
- No armour
- Level 2 Wizard
- On Foot
- Ogre Blade
- Earthing Rod
- Talisman of Protection
- Master Of The Black Arts
- Curse Of The Revenant
- Supernatural Horror
- Illusion
Master Necromancer [225 pts] Heinrich Kemmler
- Hand weapon
- Level 4 Wizard
- On Foot
- Sceptre Of De Noirot
- Ruby Ring of Ruin
- Necromancy
Wight Lord [139 pts] FW model/Krell Conversion
- Great Weapon
- Heavy Armor
- Battle Standard Bearer (one per army)
- The Accursed Armour
- Standard Of Hellish Vigour
++ Core Units [580 pts] ++
25 Skeleton Warriors [140 pts] Undecided
- Hand weapons & Shields
- Light Armor
- Skeleton Champion
- Standard bearer
- Musician
10 Crypt Ghouls [96 pts] Heresy Minis
- Hand weapons
- Crypt Ghast
5 Dire Wolves [40 pts] Mierce
- Claws and Fangs (Hand weapons)
18 Grave Guard [304 pts] Mierce Conversions
- Hand weapons & Shields
- Heavy Armor
- Implacable Defense (0-1 per 1000pts)
- Seneschal [Obsidian Lodestone]
- Standard bearer [Drakenhof Banner]
- Musician
++ Special Units [175 pts] ++
3 Fell Bats [45 pts] Undecided
- Claws and Fangs (Hand weapons)
1 Corpse Cart [130 pts] Gamezone
- Hand weapon (Corpsemaster)
- Hand weapons (Restless Dead)
- Warped Tintinnabulation (mutually exclusive with Balefire Brazier)
++ Rare Units [461 pts] ++
1 Black Coach [205 pts] GW metal
- Spectral Scythe
- Iron-Shod Hooves (Hand weapons) x 2
5 Blood Knights [256 pts] Gamezone
- Hand weapons
- Lances & Shields
- Iron-Shod Hooves
- Full plate Armor & Barding
- Drilled
- Kastellan
- Standard bearer
- Musician
---
Created with "Old World Builder"
[Old World Builder - Army builder for Warhammer: The Old World and Warhammer Fantasy Battles]
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
To a degree yes, but I mean you can also take grave guard/black knights in core now, which is a pretty big deal. One thing I'm realising making lists is a lot of the old stuff can be represented as it's quite flexible. You could make a list with Kemmler or even Krell as your general effectively, and no Vampires at all which I thought is quite cool, gives a lot of options for running narrative stuff which Vampire Counts are always really great for.
Spoke to a very experienced independent retailer friend of mine, news is sort of mixed regarding the Old World. On the positive, Old World has wildly exceeded GW's expectations, they massively underestimated the demand for it (almost like they never understood how popular Fantasty actually was/is...), it's currently outselling AoS even with just a small selection on sale....however....expect to wait a considerable amount of time for reprints of the books, from his communications with GW they're not coming very quickly, it doesn't seem like GW's timescale for TOW releases is going to be very fast at all. My worry is the hype will go as people get frustrated regarding models, many will just get 3rd party stuff and 3d prints, so when the GW models finally go on sale the sales numbers won't be a reflection of the interest levels.
What's very irritating is that the reason for certain factions not being release in TOW seems entirely down to the AoS team having a hissy fit over who gets credit for sales numbers. AoS screwing WFB yet again...
Spoke to a very experienced independent retailer friend of mine, news is sort of mixed regarding the Old World. On the positive, Old World has wildly exceeded GW's expectations, they massively underestimated the demand for it (almost like they never understood how popular Fantasty actually was/is...), it's currently outselling AoS even with just a small selection on sale....however....expect to wait a considerable amount of time for reprints of the books, from his communications with GW they're not coming very quickly, it doesn't seem like GW's timescale for TOW releases is going to be very fast at all. My worry is the hype will go as people get frustrated regarding models, many will just get 3rd party stuff and 3d prints, so when the GW models finally go on sale the sales numbers won't be a reflection of the interest levels.
What's very irritating is that the reason for certain factions not being release in TOW seems entirely down to the AoS team having a hissy fit over who gets credit for sales numbers. AoS screwing WFB yet again...
That kind of bs is generally a top down thing, management segregating sales to pit departments against each other, not something employees or devs would come up with themselves - the devs are nerds and gamers, they love these games, worlds, and characters. Be mad at GW management if you want, but AoS - it's dev team, its player base - isn't the enemy. The animosity there is misplaced and actively counter-productive, especially in light of the PDF support - with free faction rules and currently available product lines (at least the kits that aren't perpetually out of stock), the 'legacy' armies are currently in fact the most supported factions.
The slow roll & delays and arbitrary management bologna are all frustrating, but they aren't a sign of sabotage or second class treatment, especially relative to other side games. Consider that the closest equivalent product line to Old World isn't AoS, it's Middle Earth (a rule set servicing an existing and aged model range, factions all released together in a couple big books rather than divied out in regular faction releases, occasional new resin models, maybe a new plastic kit or two for edition/core box updates, but not really taking up space in the regular new product rotation). And all of GW's product lines are having the same issues. Even 40k and AoS are having major new releases pushed back a year or more and struggling to keep essential kits in stock.
TOW launch sales are clearly well above GW expectations, which can only be a good thing for how management rates the game's success so far. In the mean time, 3rd party minis producers & 3d printers are picking up the slack. Sure, those are sales GW doesn't get, but they also let people start playing games and keeps the community growing while GW's production line catches up, so in the long term, especially at this early stage, they're good for the game.
And the game itself is pretty fun! There's some jank to be sure, you can feel the creaky bones from lack of play and feedback by an active community. It's maybe not as stable a foundation as 6th edition, but it's a darn sight better than 8th edition, and I'm looking forward to improvement as events start to happen and feedback starts to roll in.
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errata & faq update yesterday for the main books - nothing new for the pdfs.
I haven't read through everything, but a couple updates that jumped out at me:
1) The casket of souls' "light of protection" bound spell is not cumulative with itself
2) Heroes with access to multiple different armor saves can choose which one to use - including being able to choose the lower save if the player controlling the model considers that to be the better choice for whatever reason.
The latter is specifically relevant to an ongoing rules back-and-forth over heroes with magic armor riding monsters or chariots that provide an armor save. When the books first released, people were using magic armor with low saves but strong properties - like the tomb kings magic light armor that imposes a penalty to wound rolls against the wearer - and then using the better save provided by their mount to effectively bypass the drawback of lower base armor save on those items. Considering that dragon riding lords in particular were already very strong by default this was more than a bit egregious, even if I admit to doing it myself in a few test games.
The previous round of FAQ stopped this by saying you must use all of a magic armor's properties (including its armor save) or none of it - ie, if you use the 'heavy armor' save conferred by a dragon mount you cannot also use the additional properties of magic light armor you purchased for the character. But another bit in the rules saying you must choose the 'better' armor save had people interpreting that as a character on a mount that provided heavy or full plate armor not being allowed to use magic light or heavy armor respectively at all, since you must choose the 'better' save. This fixed the exploit, but also was very restrictive and unfun, and in particular was excessively punishing to factions where most of their magic armor was light armor for thematic reasons, including tomb kings.
This faq says 'better' means whatever you want it to mean, so you can use magic light armor on a dragon riding mount for its property, you'll just have to deal with having a less good base armor save if you do so.
Which imo is the ideal answer, though dragon riding lords especially might still be too strong overall and need to be toned down eventually otherwise - via increased points or what have you.
I haven't read through everything, but a couple updates that jumped out at me:
1) The casket of souls' "light of protection" bound spell is not cumulative with itself
2) Heroes with access to multiple different armor saves can choose which one to use - including being able to choose the lower save if the player controlling the model considers that to be the better choice for whatever reason.
The latter is specifically relevant to an ongoing rules back-and-forth over heroes with magic armor riding monsters or chariots that provide an armor save. When the books first released, people were using magic armor with low saves but strong properties - like the tomb kings magic light armor that imposes a penalty to wound rolls against the wearer - and then using the better save provided by their mount to effectively bypass the drawback of lower base armor save on those items. Considering that dragon riding lords in particular were already very strong by default this was more than a bit egregious, even if I admit to doing it myself in a few test games.
The previous round of FAQ stopped this by saying you must use all of a magic armor's properties (including its armor save) or none of it - ie, if you use the 'heavy armor' save conferred by a dragon mount you cannot also use the additional properties of magic light armor you purchased for the character. But another bit in the rules saying you must choose the 'better' armor save had people interpreting that as a character on a mount that provided heavy or full plate armor not being allowed to use magic light or heavy armor respectively at all, since you must choose the 'better' save. This fixed the exploit, but also was very restrictive and unfun, and in particular was excessively punishing to factions where most of their magic armor was light armor for thematic reasons, including tomb kings.
This faq says 'better' means whatever you want it to mean, so you can use magic light armor on a dragon riding mount for its property, you'll just have to deal with having a less good base armor save if you do so.
Which imo is the ideal answer, though dragon riding lords especially might still be too strong overall and need to be toned down eventually otherwise - via increased points or what have you.
Oppenheimer
Varghulf
The being able to see large targets with all shooting even in the back row is interesting. Our skeleton shooting is pretty bad (maybe unless you give them poisoned shots) but that means you could make 3x2 Ushabti and still shoot a dragon with them.
I can't imagine anyone thought Casket was cumulative. There's also a lot of clarification on the fact that you don't improve or damage ward saves with armour save modifying effects - only someone who's never played Warhammer before would even consider that a possibility
I can't imagine anyone thought Casket was cumulative. There's also a lot of clarification on the fact that you don't improve or damage ward saves with armour save modifying effects - only someone who's never played Warhammer before would even consider that a possibility
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New resin necromancy wizard being released sometime in the new year for Empire in the Old World. Would make for a good Necromancer in vamp counts. Sculpt is a bit flat, but I really like it.
Seems a little too busy, in my opinion.View attachment 64561
Old World Almanack – And for our next trick…
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New resin necromancy wizard being released sometime in the new year for Empire in the Old World. Would make for a good Necromancer in vamp counts. Sculpt is a bit flat, but I really like it.