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Legions of Nagash

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
934
#27
I always caution about reading too much into artwork, stories, and the narrative overall. Even if there is some kind of unification of the other factions against Death, the undead can never truly be defeated, only delayed. In addition, I think that there's too much emphasis placed on tournaments and competitiveness. Age of Sigmar has attempted to broaden the scope of ways to play, so I think that it's important to take account of how our faction is performing across the board, rather than focusing on one area. It's also worth nothing that Legions of Nagash is likely to herald positive changes for the forces of the undead.
Well said, I am of your opinion as well. And hope so too.

Looking at the (cool) stories that are published on the MP site, we are the main threat...
Yes, but with GW you can never be certain. Especially when it's not concerned with their primary factions.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
685
#28
Our "outdated" rules are sometimes to our advantage.

(big snip)

So whether or not Malign Portents turns out to be a bust, I think we'll start seeing a large influx of Death armies attending and winning tournaments.

Well said.
Yeah, actually some old rules still give us some advantage, however the coming of the new Death battletome can only attract new players to Death armies, so this is positive.
And anyway, I'm sure that even if we are going to lose something with updated rules, there will be some new boost for Nagash's troops. Almost every time a new battletome comes out, it seems the power bar shifts a little higher...
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
934
#29
And anyway, I'm sure that even if we are going to lose something with updated rules, there will be some new boost for Nagash's troops. Almost every time a new battletome comes out, it seems the power bar shifts a little higher...
True. And I also hope this tome will herald future new ones, with new releases.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,145
#30
I highly doubt that we'll see anything truly new for death this year. Just more rearrangeing of the deck chairs.

Look how the couple of new releases weve seen, the shardspire skittles and now the knight of shrouds, are carefully designed to fit into existing aesthetics. Both look like they could have been released in 8th edition, they haven't the slightest hint of any new direction or ideas.

Look how the big death moment in the spotlight arrives not with a flashy new release or new AoS style subfaction, but rather rather with another grand alliance style reprinting of essentially the same rules for the same units we've had since AoS's release. If they had something exciting and new to sell us, now would be the time to try to sell it to us, but they aren't, so they don't.

And already Morathi and her dark elves are showing up to steal our thunder. Not that the elves aren't also desperate for attention, but GW couldn't even wait until the big Shyish campaign was so much as released before pointing the spotlight at literally anything else and kicking undead players back to the same holding pattern we've been in since the End Times.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
579
#31
I highly doubt that we'll see anything truly new for death this year. Just more rearrangeing of the deck chairs.

Look how the couple of new releases weve seen, the shardspire skittles and now the knight of shrouds, are carefully designed to fit into existing aesthetics. Both look like they could have been released in 8th edition, they haven't the slightest hint of any new direction or ideas.

Look how the big death moment in the spotlight arrives not with a flashy new release or new AoS style subfaction, but rather rather with another grand alliance style reprinting of essentially the same rules for the same units we've had since AoS's release. If they had something exciting and new to sell us, now would be the time to try to sell it to us, but they aren't, so they don't.

And already Morathi and her dark elves are showing up to steal our thunder. Not that the elves aren't also desperate for attention, but GW couldn't even wait until the big Shyish campaign was so much as released before pointing the spotlight at literally anything else and kicking undead players back to the same holding pattern we've been in since the End Times.
Couldn't agree more, when I saw the Motathi video my heart sank a bit. I'm trying to remain optimistic but we just seem to get palmed off with something inferior to everyone else. The new battletome will hopefully at least give us a spell lore...
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
934
#32
New (or old) elves don't mean Death gets nothing or that they should interfere with our releases. We don't have plenty of info yet, so don't be in a hurry either.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
685
#33
Plus, if rumors and leaks are true, elves new material will appear around end april - half may.
This means around 3 monts after Death release, so not a big overlap.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#34
LVO announcement:

https://www.warhammer-community.com...ws-from-the-las-vegas-opengw-homepage-post-1/

It looks like Malign Portents is just a campaign. No new Death stuff revealed (yet).

FAQ schedule mirrors 40k's. It looks like we might get an FAQ update within the next week. I hope so, because I've been bombarding GW with Death questions.

Biggest announcement is new Daughters of Khaine models and codex, due out by June. Those models will be added to my Order army for sure.

Fyreslayers and Skaven getting Shadespire warbands but no reveal on skaven models.

Some 40k stuff, but you guys probably don't care about that.;)
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#36
Rules for the heralds have leaked. Interesting how ethereal works on the night of shrouds. http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/217-the-rumour-thread/?page=373
Aelves probably deserved new models before us but still feel cheated, that we are only getting the knight of shrouds.
Wow. That's really stupid. Gains no benefits from cover or mystic shield. Why couldn't it just be the same as the rest of Nighthaunt?! His command ability is dumb too. It only affects models (not units) and they have to be WHOLLY within which means he has to be right next to them. It's nice that Nighthaunt have a leader now, but I think he's the worst of these four characters.
 
Joined
Jan 1, 2017
Messages
685
#37
Overall i agree.
No mystic shield doesn't make sense, and the buff to models and not units is not good, but +1 to hit is.
I easily see it go to melee zone surrounded by a unit of 9 spirit hosts


But obviously, the Lord Ordinator with warmachines is an absolute killer.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
579
#38
From RuneBrushes blog... some changes in warscrolls:

  • No regen banners any more - replaced by a bravery modifier.
  • Less summonable models - Summoning looks like it will work based on Keyword rather than spells. Some models lost the ability to be summoned - Morghast, and Mourngul to name two.
  • Extra warscrolls - Names characters, and a Soulblight vehicle of a description.
  • Without the context of updated allegiance abilities.... seem like an Even HEAVIER reliance on heroes.
  • Deathrattle, Deathmage, Deathlords keywords still intact - Legions of Nagash therefore doesnt replace these Factions.
  • Neferata and Mannfred gain Soulblight... Arkhan DOESNT gain Deathrattle.
Looks like we've been hit with the nerf stick...

More complete overview of the changes: http://runebrush.pa-sy.com/2018/01/legions-of-nagash-warscroll-leaks/
 
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Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#39
Overall i agree.
No mystic shield doesn't make sense, and the buff to models and not units is not good, but +1 to hit is.
I easily see it go to melee zone surrounded by a unit of 9 spirit hosts


But obviously, the Lord Ordinator with warmachines is an absolute killer.
Yeah. I usually run at least one cannon in my order list. As long as he's 120 points or less, he should be easy to fit in.

I'll buy the herald but I doubt he'll see game play.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#41
From RuneBrushes blog... some changes in warscrolls:

  • No regen banners any more - replaced by a bravery modifier.
  • Less summonable models - Summoning looks like it will work based on Keyword rather than spells. Some models lost the ability to be summoned - Morghast, and Mourngul to name two.
  • Extra warscrolls - Names characters, and a Soulblight vehicle of a description.
  • Without the context of updated allegiance abilities.... seem like an Even HEAVIER reliance on heroes.
  • Deathrattle, Deathmage, Deathlords keywords still intact - Legions of Nagash therefore doesnt replace these Factions.
  • Neferata and Mannfred gain Soulblight... Arkhan DOESNT gain Deathrattle.
Looks like we've been hit with the nerf stick...

More complete overview of the changes: http://runebrush.pa-sy.com/2018/01/legions-of-nagash-warscroll-leaks/
I dislike the added reliance on characters, but this appears to mark a shift in the meta.

The healing is actually a bit better as it stacks between heroes. So a unit could heal 4D3 wounds instead of D6 if you have four characters in range. For zombies and skeletons, it's probably not as good, but for black knights and spirit hosts, it's much better. All Nighthaunt is getting the new ethereal (ignores all save modifiers). So in general that's worse, but it also ignores Nurgle abilities and other spells. I'm curious to see how the new summoning works. We lost our wight king banner which is a pretty big loss. Morghasts also lost their mortal wound saves. I wonder if the new book will also have the Flesh Eaters in it.

I expect the characters will be more expensive and everything else will be a bit cheaper.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
579
#43
Apparently those warscrolls originated on dakka dakka and aren't real. Guess we will have to wait and see.
Also has anyone seen the soulblight models in this months white dwarf? Someone posted about them on the tga forum kind of alluding to them being new or at leat kitbashed but no photos.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
934
#44
Not yet, I am not sure we are getting any vampires now. And yes, most likely all those scrolls are fake.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#45
Apparently those warscrolls originated on dakka dakka and aren't real. Guess we will have to wait and see.
Also has anyone seen the soulblight models in this months white dwarf? Someone posted about them on the tga forum kind of alluding to them being new or at leat kitbashed but no photos.
The knight of shrouds warscroll is on Warhammer community, so that's legit. As for the others, they're also on BoLS and they have a pretty good track record.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,145
#46
Character based healing doesn't work if the enemy kills the characters first, which the more prevalent competitive armies are more than capable of and already want to do due to our dependence on buffs. FEC already operate under a substantially similar system, and my understanding is that they mostly operate as though the courtier based recursion mechanics don't exist at all, skipping courtiers largely altogether to build armies around winged monsters.

Well, that and vanhelse'd horrors, but that's also a thing of the past.

And on top of that that several heroes are more vulnetable (necromancer, wight king with black axe, ethereal stuff) and none are tougher (mortarchs were bad dudes when the game was released, but are downright brittle by current standards), and these leaked rules are looking like a continuation of pur treatment in GH'17, rather than restitution for it.

Which makes sense, given that the book must have been written before they saw any feedback from that book, at a time when the traumas of settra/necroknights, double sttacking dragons, and hordes of infantry shielded by RotN royals were still fresh in mind, rather than distant legends shrouded by the mists of time.

Little wonder that what this book's author apparently thought death needed most as a faction was nerfing.


As for whether these are real, I believe they are. Too much of a coincidence that the KoS has the same ethereal nerf.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,145
#48
In their defence, we are only six month removed from rules that were, at the time, rather unfairly strong. Again, double-attacking dragon lords, regenerating hordes of skeletons backed by Royal Warsphinxes with Ruler of the Night, and ludicrously underpriced necropolis knights, buffed to the nines by settra, tomb kings, & casters, then hurled into combat with units practically anywhere on the table. Our weak army woes only started six months ago. That's not really long enough for GW to take notice and correct ship already. Not in a published book, anyway.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
#49
In their defence, we are only six month removed from rules that were, at the time, rather unfairly strong. Again, double-attacking dragon lords, regenerating hordes of skeletons backed by Royal Warsphinxes with Ruler of the Night, and ludicrously underpriced necropolis knights, buffed to the nines by settra, tomb kings, & casters, then hurled into combat with units practically anywhere on the table. Our weak army woes only started six months ago. That's not really long enough for GW to take notice and correct ship already. Not in a published book, anyway.
the tournament scene saw the tomb Kings nerfed long ago with "test points" that became their actual points. Then they got nerfed again when their resurrection spells and synergies were removed. I understand nerfing units you aren't selling, but nerfing your weakly performing (sales-wise) lines doesn't make any sense. What sells the most is just as indicative of being OP as what shows up in tournaments the most. For Death, neither is the case. They aren't selling or showing up in tournaments. Making them weaker (which GHB 2017 did) isn't going to help. So if Legions of Nagash further weakens the faction, then I don't see room in their schedule for corrective action.

Although, perhaps GW is making a genius play, here. Instead of getting Death players excited about the new release, they are intentionally pouring lemon juice on are already salty wounds by "leaking" shitty rules. Then when the book releases, it's actually good and we rejoice rather than spending months on hype just for the faction to fizzle out. oh wait...
 
Joined
Oct 22, 2014
Messages
184
#50
The knight of shrouds warscroll is on Warhammer community, so that's legit. As for the others, they're also on BoLS and they have a pretty good track record.
Can you provide a link, please? To the KoS warscroll on Warhammer Community, I mean.
 
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