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Legions of Nagash

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
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Sep 23, 2009
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#76
maybe in round bases, but almost certainly not with new models. That would have been advertised.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#77
And the matched play rules make clear that reserve points must be paid if new units are added to the battle OR if destroyed units are returned to the battle. Bringing back destroyed units is explicitly covered. You have to pay full price. It's why the ring of immortality was effectively dead for so long.
I didn't realize that reinforcement points counted for destroyed units. However, they did specifically leave a loophole in "unless stated otherwise" so there's a chance it might be free. Either way, it could be really useful in some situations.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
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#78
There's a chance it might list an exception, but in other recent books listed such exceptions within the rule itself, and that isn't the case here.

And no, it isn't really useful 'either way'. If you have to spend reserve points out of your starting army, this will always be terrible in matched play. It will never be good to start the game a unit down for the chance to maybe deploy that unit late in the game, at a time and place you cant control but your opponent can, and even if the stars align, you still just don't get the unit 50% of the time anyway.

Not when you could have just started with the unit on the table, or just deployed it whenever you wanted via gravesites anyway without jumping through a bunch of hoops.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#79
And no, it isn't really useful 'either way'. If you have to spend reserve points out of your starting army, this will always be terrible in matched play. It will never be good to start the game a unit down for the chance to maybe deploy that unit late in the game, at a time and place you cant control but your opponent can, and even if the stars align, you still just don't get the unit 50% of the time anyway.

Not when you could have just started with the unit on the table, or just deployed it whenever you wanted via gravesites anyway without jumping through a bunch of hoops.
I disagree. I have used summoning very effectively and it really puts a kink in my opponents' strategies and extending the range is only going to make it better. It won't AS bad for my opponents as I won't always have a character there to give the death save, but that's not much different from the current summoning meta. It will just take a little longer to get there, unless running flyers or Nighthaunt. The big question I have is: How big are the gravesites going to be? Are they going to be a garden of morr? Or just a tombstone? Is it going to have the footprint of a citadel wood? Or a nurgle tree?
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
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#80
This isn't summoning, though. You don't get to pick which models are summoned, it has to be a summonable unit you already had that was already destroyed, and you have to have at least that many reserve points left in your pool.

Reserved 240 to bring back your unit of 10 black knights, but the only summonable unit your opponent killed was your 320 point unit of 20 grave guard? Too bad, you get nothing. Reserved enough points to bring back the 320 point grave guard unit, but this time your opponent went for your black knights instead? Well you could try to bring them back, and then be left with 80 unusable reserve points.

You don't get to pick when it happens, you just have to hope an opponents unit dies when you need one of yours back. You don't get to pick where it happens, you just have to hope your opponents unit died near one of your grave sites, and that none of your opponent's other models were near the same grave site. And even after all of that, it only has a 4+ chance of even happening. And if that chance fails, you can't just try to summon another unit with the same points in the same turn, or try to summon the same unit again on your next turn, you have to wait for the stars to align all over again.

I don't deny that summoning spells had their uses, but 'Master's Teachings' isn't anything like them, and lacks every single one of their already rather few positive features.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#81
This isn't summoning, though. You don't get to pick which models are summoned, it has to be a summonable unit you already had that was already destroyed, and you have to have at least that many reserve points left in your pool.

Reserved 240 to bring back your unit of 10 black knights, but the only summonable unit your opponent killed was your 320 point unit of 20 grave guard? Too bad, you get nothing. Reserved enough points to bring back the 320 point grave guard unit, but this time your opponent went for your black knights instead? Well you could try to bring them back, and then be left with 80 unusable reserve points.

You don't get to pick when it happens, you just have to hope an opponents unit dies when you need one of yours back. You don't get to pick where it happens, you just have to hope your opponents unit died near one of your grave sites, and that none of your opponent's other models were near the same grave site. And even after all of that, it only has a 4+ chance of even happening. And if that chance fails, you can't just try to summon another unit with the same points in the same turn, or try to summon the same unit again on your next turn, you have to wait for the stars to align all over again.

I don't deny that summoning spells had their uses, but 'Master's Teachings' isn't anything like them, and lacks every single one of their already rather few positive features.
It doesn't sound like it's going to be that complex to me, but I know we're still missing a lot of information on this.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#82
I thought we should create a separate thread from the Age of Sigmar thread to discuss the Legions of Nagash Battletome, mainly for easy recognition for any new players and a more focused discussion than just generic AOS. Maybe one of the mods can migrate some of the posts in the Age of Sigmar thread? If not, I'm sure it will be fine.
 
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#86
Last edited:

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#87
https://www.warhammer-community.com...gion-blood-prince-vhordraigw-homepage-post-2/

Further confirmation of the leaked warscrolls (at least partially), this article focuses on the new character, Prince Vhordrai. His command ability is awesome. If the Ghoul King on TG doesn't change too much, this could be devastating. Since there's now a whole faction dedicated to blood knights, I hope we finally get some cheaper/plastic models for them. I'm still rocking the metal ones but I hear the current ones are resin.

The amulet of screams will be really useful against Tzeentch and Nurgle, and probably the new Daughters of Khaine. The ring of dominion is also superb (Slayer of Kings comes to mind) as you can use it in every combat phase! I wonder if Settra will be able to take it...

Tomorrow, Mannfred gets his own special attention, which answer at least some questions we have about him.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
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#89
Blood looks alright, but less interesting to me personally than previous previews. Would have preferred more of neferata's sneakyness to show through in the rules.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#90
"Every Legions of Nagash army gets to place four gravesites on the table – two in their territory and two in the enemy’s. Summonable units can be set up to emerge from these gravesites later in the game..."

Does this mean we list a SUMMONABLE unit and deploy it in a gravesite to have it "deep strike" rather than having to use a summoning spell?
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
576
#91
Yeah legion of blood is a bit meh from what they've shown but they do say in all the previews there are more abilities and items so could be some other neat stuff, Arkhan is just about winning for me at the moment.
 

El Syf

Crypt Horror
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Dec 4, 2011
Messages
576
#92
I'd like to think so, after all iirc wild woods do the same for the sylvaneth. It's a shame the +1 attack buff the legion of blood get isn't for all soulblight models though.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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#93
I'd like to think so, after all iirc wild woods do the same for the sylvaneth. It's a shame the +1 attack buff the legion of blood get isn't for all soulblight models though.
I think it's designed for larger games where you're less likely to have the soul blight allegiance.
 

Borgnine

Moderator
Staff member
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#94
I agree with @Alabaster427 and moved the whole discussion into a dedicated thread to keep things organized. I'm sorry for any confusion that may have caused...
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
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#95
Does this mean we list a SUMMONABLE unit and deploy it in a gravesite to have it "deep strike" rather than having to use a summoning spell?
That was my take away, but we dont actually have the wording yet, soooo... *shrug*
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
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So are we expecting preorders tomorrow?
Yes. I think they're doing the battletome and the 4 heralds. I'm hoping for some warscroll cards. Aside from the Knight of Shrouds, I don't think we're getting any new models. Prince Vordray (or whatever) might have a new model but I wouldn't be surprised if it's just one of the old vampire models renamed.
 
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