Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[spineyrequiem]

Personally, I can see points reductions across the board, a nerfing of ghouls, not just because they're overused but rather so that those who currently have hordes of them will be forced to re-buy their army. Skeletons will most likely be reduced in cost, but not made better-so that people buy more so that they'll be effective. You can see how cynical I'm being here, can't you? I've no idea what will be done with zombies, as if they keep being reduced in points cost we'll eventually get points back for fielding them at all... wild guess here, but maybe they'll be only summonable by magic, not buyable at the start at all? Then again, that moment may only come in an edition further into the future...

For obvious reasons, there will be a new super-unit. I would have guessed at it being heavy cavalry, but there already is a unit which matches that description... therefore, I'd hazard a guess at the Flesh Golems being the must-have of tomorrow's lists, since infantry are currently so powerful. Then again, the TK super-unit, the Necro-Knights, IS heavy cavalry, so who knows? I'm guessing that as well as the Lore of Vampires (probably slightly overhauled), we'll get an option of using one or more common lores, although depending on the author we might have a skaven-esque two unique lores to choose from. Somehow, an attempt will be made to make the combat vampire viable again, although whether this will work is another matter entirely...

Just to tell you, if Cruddace gets to write this book, do not be happy bunnies. You will get a load of units which sound cool, but which really don't work as intended. Take TK sphinxes. The Warsphinx was obviously meant to be for taking on hordes of enemy infantry. Unfortunately, even S3 can still wound it on a 6, and it has such a low armour save that enemy core are likely to take it down in just a round or two. The Nexrosphinx was clearly meant as a monster-hunter. Unfortunately, if its HKB attack fails (quite likely), it's not terribly effective in this role. And don't even get me started on the sepulchral stalkers...

 

[Bishop]

Well, they need to and will do something to the Core units of our army. The fact that there's one viable Core choice used in the vast majority of VC tourney list is a problem.

Something needs to be done to close that gap. Making skeletons slightly better and cheaper would certainly help. I'd be okay with Ghouls returning back to Alive!/Skirmishing... but of course, I'm probably one of the few people that doesn't have 60+ Ghouls I absolutely hate the current Ghoul models and refuse to buy them! Zombies need a huge point drop and hopefully a slight boost as well.

I'd like to see Dire Wolves and Vampire Bats become useful again. I don't see any reason that these shouldn't count towards 25% Core. They might need to add in some restriction to force people to take "true core" as well though (Skeletons, Ghouls, Zombies).

Black Coach will very likely be changed due to the huge changes to the Magic Phase in 8th. Hopefully it stays decent.

 

[N.I.B]

Saw this on Warseer today, Sorry if already posted but I didn't see it in the summary:

"Originally Posted by theDarkGeneral View Post
and Vamps get a Bloodline or Item or something that allows them to continue casting, even if failing to cast a spell (thus some return to Invo Spam) with big tweaks on their Lore(s) *HINT*"

See the hint...lores...as in plural...

Seems people rather busy themselves with wishlisting instead of discussing actual rumours. Oh well.

Nice to hear we get some magic assurance. As it stands, you rarely want to cast anything higher than Vanhels with your lord, for fear of nor reaching the casting value (and fear of miscasts). But it's not a big deal, usually there's another caster who can do the necro spells when the lord burns out.

As for Lore(s) - we already have two lores, Vampire and Necromancy. As Necromancy is only three spells, it might get fleshed out a bit. Would be cool.

 

[Judgex83]

I have never played a game of 8th edition so I never did the whole ghoul horde army but I did run them since they were are best core choice even back in 7th edition IMHO. I dont understand why everyone is crying for a ghoul nerf. They should be are best core choice since they are living (even if they have the undead rule. GW stated they did it for simplisitys sake) and would be able to make decisions on their own. Every army has its good choices for core and its crumby ones. Chaos warriors have marauders at a measely 6 points and actual warriors at 15 pts, Lizardmen have skinks and saurus warriors and so on. Ghouls are our "elite" for of infantry and I use that world lightly. I cant see what benefit they would have from being skirmished. I always viewed that as being benificial to ranged only. Sorry this is off topic but this is where I saw the crys for a ghoul nerf mostly. I for one hope they make flesh golems a unit that requires a necromancer to run just to force you to run other choices than vampires. I understand that vampires are better at everything but I dont belive that a vampire lord would be fine having other weaker vampires lead his or her army since vampires are generally very arrogant and power hungry.

 

[spineyrequiem]

I have never played a game of 8th edition so I never did the whole ghoul horde army but I did run them since they were are best core choice even back in 7th edition IMHO. I dont understand why everyone is crying for a ghoul nerf. They should be are best core choice since they are living (even if they have the undead rule. GW stated they did it for simplisitys sake) and would be able to make decisions on their own. I cant see what benefit they would have from being skirmished. I always viewed that as being benificial to ranged only. Sorry this is off topic but this is where I saw the crys for a ghoul nerf mostly.

I'm not saying I WANT a nerf, I want everything else buffed. However, I expect there to BE a nerf or some means by which they'll stop being the main battleline unit so that people have to replace their army. Besides, it doesn't make sense that they're the most reliable trooper available, given the fluff...

 

[Judgex83]

I dont remember the fluff exactly because I no longer own the codex. Im rebuilding the army now because I really liked the terrorgheist model and refuse to buy models if I dont own the army. They were also my first army and one of the most enjoyable for me so im giving them another go as I wait for the new codex. I do remember them saying they were living and did have some form of sentience. I dont really see how they could nerf any of are infantry its already some of the weakest choices in the game baring skinks and maybe marauders. I agree that skeletons need to be reduced in cost if they arnt made better. I for one would love a named wight king that makes graveguard a core choice but I dont see that ever happening and maybe an immunity to posion, It always bothered me when my friends skinks would kill 10 skeletons a turn to posioned attacks, WTF are you posioning? My skeletons dont care about your silly posioned darts.

 

[Danceman]

I for one would love a named wight king that makes graveguard a core choice but I dont see that ever happening and maybe an immunity to posion

Considering how good Grave Guard is that would be a big mistake. Would pretty much turn us into undead warriors of chaos(which admittedly would be awesome). However, giving us the option of making a Grave Guard walls of army lists would be broken.

I agree with the poison rule though.

 

[Raizi]

It always bothered me when my friends skinks would kill 10 skeletons a turn to posioned attacks, WTF are you posioning? My skeletons dont care about your silly posioned darts.

For fluff's sake, of course they use holy water against undead, skinks are that smart! In Empire they use water blessed by priests of Sigmar and I assume they would use Slann's piss in Lustria. :lol:

Seriously though, I didn't like the time when undead had poison immunity. (although I was the one playing them) I think it gave them too much advantage over other armies for no good reason.

 

[Judgex83]

i would agree with you with them being prepared but skeletons themselves are not unholy creations they are merely puppets being plucked by the strings of magic. So unless your holy water is attacking the magic directly it doesnt make sense. I agree it might give them an unfair advantage against a select few units but there are alot of unfair rules that some armies have that hurt other armies pretty bad for instance like how goblins fear elves.

 

[Spaceboy]

i would agree with you with them being prepared but skeletons themselves are not unholy creations they are merely puppets being plucked by the strings of magic. So unless your holy water is attacking the magic directly it doesnt make sense. I agree it might give them an unfair advantage against a select few units but there are alot of unfair rules that some armies have that hurt other armies pretty bad for instance like how goblins fear elves.

Undead should be immune to poison, it just makes sense. And any advantage that it gives us is fair imo, as some of the other armies have certain advantageous rules.

 

[Raizi]

Undead should be immune to poison, it just makes sense. And any advantage that it gives us is fair imo, as some of the other armies have certain advantageous rules.

They might be immune to poison per se, but IMHO there are other substances that could be used similiar to poison (coating etc.) that would be harmful to undead troops. I don't think there's a waterproof way fluff-wise to say that Undead in general should be immune to poison. There are arguments for it, but then against it too.

Most of the rules are based on fluff, I can make a dozen of good reasons that make sense why undead (or at least zombies) should also be immune to killing blow and then as many why they shouldn't be.

 

[Grish]

I remember in 7th edition BRB it specifically says that 'poison' is relative to the creature; so for things like Skeletons it's holy water, for vampires Garlic spread, for rock Statues it could be Hydrofluoric acid or something.

And yes, our ghouls carry all these poisons and more 'just in case'. That's why they can't afford clothing, weapons, or decent housing.

 

[Tim]

i would agree with you with them being prepared but skeletons themselves are not unholy creations they are merely puppets being plucked by the strings of magic. So unless your holy water is attacking the magic directly it doesnt make sense. I agree it might give them an unfair advantage against a select few units but there are alot of unfair rules that some armies have that hurt other armies pretty bad for instance like how goblins fear elves.

Undead should be immune to poison, it just makes sense. And any advantage that it gives us is fair imo, as some of the other armies have certain advantageous rules.

We have "advantage rules" undead & unstable...

 

[Azakael]

Just in case people were in doubt of a January release. (Or a "Book is real damn soon...." doubt.)
I just heard from my local FLGS that here in the US the Vampire Counts Battalion and Army Books are not even in their system anymore. Take that as you will.

 

[Hansol]

as I imagine there is an awful lot of people owning 60+ Ghouls today...

Jep , i have 20 done for armylist i now have still need to do 60 , there all still in the box and sealed (also 4x GG box lol)

so i am going to wait , hope will be more mix of units, more fun to paint for one, and have more real army feel to it

 

[gorethumb]

The big change I think well see is probably gonna be the spirit host. I'd not be surprised if they got a ghostly howl.

I really hope GW is not going to be that unimaginative. We already have the Banshee and the Terrorghest with this already. There is a lot you can do with a Spirit Host that fits the fluff better witout resorting to a new howling unit. I do agree that the Spirit Host needs to be redone though.

Aside from the name ghostly howl this concept seems great. Your looking at a cheaper ranged unit with the ethereal rule. Even if you see the banshee as a hero choice now your not spending alot of points to get multiples in each unit. Plus winds of undeath! It would mean free ranged units on the table. I'm stoked about this idea

 

[Kubikajiri]

I hope they add some more special characters. Nammed wights or etherial characters would be pretty cool. I like the Idea of having skeletons as main core, and not people from the hills have eyes. Necromancers able to get higher than lvl 1 or necromancer lord would be neat too.

 

[Mudd the Mighty]

The big change I think well see is probably gonna be the spirit host. I'd not be surprised if they got a ghostly howl.

I really hope GW is not going to be that unimaginative. We already have the Banshee and the Terrorghest with this already. There is a lot you can do with a Spirit Host that fits the fluff better witout resorting to a new howling unit. I do agree that the Spirit Host needs to be redone though.

Aside from the name ghostly howl this concept seems great. Your looking at a cheaper ranged unit with the ethereal rule. Even if you see the banshee as a hero choice now your not spending alot of points to get multiples in each unit. Plus winds of undeath! It would mean free ranged units on the table. I'm stoked about this idea

See the thing that I'm seeing is this, we as undead/vc players want a ranged unit and GW doesn't want to give us bowmen. But, what they do seem to be ok about is an 8" howl attack that attacks Leadership. Now is it op? Kinda but its so limited that there are ways around it. And seeing as how they're on a let's give armies a unique thing I wouldn't be at all surprised. Besides it would shut us up and sell spirit hosts but if they do then you can kiss the raising of hosts from winds goodbye.

 

[Raizi]

I hope they add some more special characters. Nammed wights or etherial characters would be pretty cool. I like the Idea of having skeletons as main core, and not people from the hills have eyes. Necromancers able to get higher than lvl 1 or necromancer lord would be neat too.

I always found it strange that a Necromancer could be leading the armies of a Vampire Count. I think it is fitting that necromancers stay as mere thralls and in my opinion their role now as a 'janitor' of sorts is really fitting.

About Spirit Hosts though, I would like to see them get a slight increase in their close combat prowess. Monstrous infantry already have stomp special so something similiar perhaps.

My idea is a Chill of Death special ability, that does 1 automatic hit on every model in base contact at the end of the combat round, it wounds on unmodified 5+ and is armor piercing -2.

 

[N.I.B]

Why is this thread showing 12 pages but I can't acess page 12?

 

[Mr Saturday]

There you go.

 

[Zhatan]

Why is this thread showing 12 pages but I can't acess page 12?

It's some kind of bug I guess. I think it happens when one page fills up with posts but there is not yet any post on the new page. So it says 12 pages but there is no post on page 12 yet.

There you go.

Haha, nice fix.

 

[Sceadu Cille]

im predicting the new coach variant is going to be an artillery piece that is just the SOB exercist launcher with a church organ on it with konrad wearing a phantom of the opera mask playing away to fire balls of magic energy out of the stacks . yes GW , you may ninja my design .

 

[Jaeharys]

im predicting the new coach variant is going to be an artillery piece that is just the SOB exercist launcher with a church organ on it with konrad wearing a phantom of the opera mask playing away to fire balls of magic energy out of the stacks . yes GW , you may ninja my design .

With batteries and music theme included...

 

[Questioner]

That would be sooooo cool...

But GW doesn't make sensible models like that.