Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Was just saying mate there was allot that is not apparent at a quick glance, sit down and read and the cheese will be so thick you could cut it with a knife.
Was down at the Gauntlet yesterday in Warhammer World UK (Came 7th, if I had not lost my second game to Ogres because of the Hellheart I would of been tied first 7th is good though)
The amount of complaining about Necrons was insane however (bother 40k and Fantasy run on the same day) 3 people spent the entire night painting new Necrons and the rest spent the time on the coach discussing forming a mob to hunt down Mat Ward. (Imagines a picture of Mat Ward inside the Necron cover smiling pointing to Block of cheese in his hand that has grown a Beard)

Not being Condescending, I am just pointing things out multiple times, The filth is in the new weapons and the characters.
Especially the Stormlord.... You may not think so but once again its opinion and I have had 8 hours on a coach filled with peoples opinions.

Thats why I am saying, bring Levies back, most bloodlines have them to a lesser or greater degree.

 

[Von Calyptra]

I went over to a Tomb Kings forum (tomb-kings.net) and counted. Of the first 23 posted army lists I looked at, 9 included skeleton warriors, 14 did not. A certain number of players will field any given unit for the fun of it regardless of how useless it is (apart from, you know, fun), and I'm not sure what the best way to control for that is, but I found 3 lists on our forum that included zombies before I got bored and stopped looking.

It looks like (given this small sample size) while most Tomb Kings players aren't using 4 point skeletons, they're not a shunned pariah unit the way our zombies are. I can't find any threads on their forum blasting skeleton warriors as being useless even at 4 points (though nobody's calling them good either).

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

4 points...... if they give them +1 WS will make them on par with state troops from the Empire.
Then in my eyes they are not great but they are fair.
They are Immune to psychology and cause fear even if they do suffer from crumble.

If they can drop Zombies to 2 points (still don't think anyone will use them) they will be more looked at), though a new kit would go a long way to helping.
If they can get rid of vamps and characters crumbling from combat rez that would go a long way to sorting things out, then I may use a varghulf.

 

[spineyrequiem]

It looks like (given this small sample size) while most Tomb Kings players aren't using 4 point skeletons, they're not a shunned pariah unit the way our zombies are. I can't find any threads on their forum blasting skeleton warriors as being useless even at 4 points (though nobody's calling them good either).

You can't? Whilst the negativity has gone down somewhat recently, you can still find plenty if you look-believe me, plenty of people hate them. Here are some examples http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=9756
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=9373
http://z4.invisionfree.com/Khemri/index.php?showtopic=9554

Those are all from a couple of months ago; we're now trying to put on a brave face and work with what works, which includes Necrosphinx as an artillery/tiny elite units killer, warsphinx as a fighter of high-strength, low-numbers infantry and chariots as just a general battering ram... even the most negative people seem to love chariots...

 

[duck83]

After a few minutes of inspiration with the old White Dwarf issue, I can say - options upgrades for units would do the trick. If skeletons were the same price as Tomb Kings ones, which I assume is 6, than h. armour for an additionl 2 pts might do a thinh, somehow.

I mean, if h. armour was optional there always was a chance to heavy cheaper skeletons or more expensive ones. 4+ armour save is quite nice, even though in some clashes it won't the difference, like fighting great weapon armed marauders or chaos warriors. Still however with a nice points value for zombies, let's say 6 points per model, with the come back of the old stats, you could get two insanly big units of core infantry. Both with it's own role to fulfil. Zombies as a fodder and skeletons as a blocker.

Just making my words valuable here, I did blocked chosens with zombies for two phases of combat. It wasn't realy hard. I've dragged down one, or even two chosens in total. But honestly zombies stats are just mess now. G. Thorpe made zombies so weak, as not to bother the attention of other gamers, labeled as "Vampire Counts-the most overpowered army ever". Zombies got weak, just for the sake of keeping so putrid in-balance of the whole army. As my opinion is to be signed, zombies are bluffed now. I place any thing, literally (speaking about things of course), that zombies are going to get better stats, presumable the likes, they had earlier.

After that long talk of guessing, I might say that if zombies and skeletons were able to fulfil the roles mentioned I still could have a place in my roster for other cores. Wolves or whatever that was to be, might be just handy as some supporting units. I'm saying that as a core infantry fan. I do value most cavalery, heavy one, but as an infantry, my choice goes for cores. Ending this talk, I think core infantry can be useful, if prepared wisely. As I've said before, options upgrades might be the thing, I as a said core infantry fan, might call retributional.

 

[spineyrequiem]

Tomb Kings ones are 4 points, with no armour and hand weapon and shield. I think what Vampire counts could do with (as well as some means of buffing their weapon skill) is perhaps heavy armour as you say, but also the option of great weapons and/or halberds, since S5 is quite a lot scarier than S3...

As it is, the main complaints with TK is that buffing them with a character is expensive, the characters are incredibly easy to kill off (as are all characters in 8th), without characters they're barely a match for other people's cannon fodder (seriously, the only stat difference between them and skavenslaves is that the slaves have more initiative) and even with characters their strength is too low to worry anything more than other people's core...

 

[duck83]

Skeletons stas won't change. Ours skeletons are going to be exactly the same as the Tomb kings ones, period. No other way, just to underline the previous. Points costs may vary however. Buffs will vary for sure, no other way either.

Zombies are just shameful exception. Points lowering tendention keeped through the last 2 army books, but the latest brought the immersive stat decrease. That's a riot. Sadly.

If zombies are going to get back to their previos stat line, I'm back in the saddle. I mean if we are going to loose the shameful core option I'm going to be just glad. Zombies are ok, for 4 points now, it isn't the worst thing you can imagine. But it just doesn't fit. I mean looking at all this comparisonal stuff, everyone speaking those are worthless, I could agree. I surely would love them to be better. As a player that likes loads of pure nothing while gaming, rather than lots of eak-crick over-counted all-spotable 'one proper list' scheme, it's easier for me to adopt any unit for the upcoming battle, than just those that fit well, or simply best. I don't need skeletons being an even match for those empire state troops. Skeletons never were a match, mostly for all warhammer infantry. They were moderatly cheap, as being over-hauled with fear rule. Fear was a massive over-haul so skeletons had fulfiled their roles. Not truly of the bunkers of today.

Fear is a lesser version of the 'fear' it was days back. Still it's not that bad. Cores are just a fodder now anyway. It happens those are chalangeing ones, like our ghouls now. Still it's a fodder. If this fodder is getting the re-done so it is going to fulfil it's role with the new fear, then all is fine.

 

[Grish]

I'm still very hopeful Zombies will get the love they deserve. I posted an entire thread focused on Zombies and how the warhammer zombies are just garbage compared to the love they get in real life. I will bet heavy money that Zombies will become effective and useable in the new book, to the point where people really love taking them (for whatever purpose). GW would be fools to not to tap into all the Zombie movies/tv shows/books/comic books/ culture out there. I sure don't see such a culture around skeletons, ghouls or anything else except maybe vampires (and half the vampire stuff out there I'm not into).

Cheers

 

[spineyrequiem]

I've heard (admittedly from a guy further up this page) that in January there are going to be lots of zombie-themed events at stores, so you may well be right. I know that I'M fond of zombies, certainly (as an old WD put it 'Ah, zombies. The sweet bouquet of rotting flesh. The insatiable urge to embrace the living. The dulcet cries of 'Braaaaaiiiiinnnnsss....'') and would like to see them get a new kit. Otherwise, I'm facing the difficult situation of whether to pay more for lower quality models or pop over to Mantic for some of their lovely rotting chappies, who are hopefully still cheaper than the GW equivalent...

 

[Count von toten]

What could they do to make zombies better? Either improve their stats. I always thought Zombies should be tougher because how much it takes to put just one down in a film! I mean I run a normal human through with my sword he's finished a zombie would still be trying to eat my brains! How about some regen type ability as well based on the enemy they pull down in combat rising again to join them? How about giving them poison?

Or keep stats the same and make them 2 points each?

 

[Uziel]

What could they do to make zombies better? Either improve their stats. I always thought Zombies should be tougher because how much it takes to put just one down in a film! Or keep stats the same and make them 2 points each?

It would make sense that Zombies are tougher than Skellies, as none of them have any weak points in their anatomy as such, but the zombie is in fact a skeleton covered in rotting muscles, tendons, fat, ragged clothing etc (essentially a skeleton with a layer of meat shielding it/holding it together).

The individual zombie should not be that tough to kill, as long as you have time on your side, room to manouver and hack at it from different angles as well as having the space to move away from its grip.

Zombies need to become dangerous if they outnumber their enemies, while remain realtivly easy to deal with if you outnumber them in return.

The current zombies, especially at 2 pts a model, would be a disaster for several reasons:

-Many elite armies are struggling with the likes of Skavenslaves already, and an already Unbreakable army, getting access to cheap hordes of sacrificial troops, which are also VERY reliable (you can almost calculate how many rounds they will be able to hold enemy unit X). Many VC will probably love this, but I think it takes too much of the game from winning at the gaming table, to the "winning" at the army design stage.

-IF these zombies got into contact with an enemy you had to destroy for some reason, and you had some elite unit (lets say Black Knights with a Vampire Lord for reference purposes) close by; it would be tremedously stupid to engange with the knights because of the Unstable rule, and the zombies being massacred and the wounds carrying over to the Knights/Vampire. Yes, the Unbreakable rule can be considered "broken", but having T2 zombies that can hardly make a dent on a tin can (not a reference to a Knight btw)just makes it horribly so...

-Zombies need to work by themselves as well. This will allow more viable and fluffy army variations to once again be seen on the gaming tables.

 

[Jacques Dauger De Cavoye]

I was talking to my friend yesterday, he had just been at the local game shop, and he said some guys were talking about a new vampire army book for January. He told me he overheard them saying their would be a special character who had the ability to turn the models he killed into his own guys (Be it thralls or zombies? he didn't specify), something about how they would be able to keep the rules they had before, but now they worked for the vamp team. I honestly don't believe a whole lot of what he said, he sometimes over-exaggerates or misunderstands, but I was just glad to hear that people were talking about a new army book! Guess we are not the only people hearing rumors. Starting to sound like January will be promising.

 

[Monkey's_Uncle]

That sounds a lot like Richter Kreugar and the old Cursed Company to me.
It would be nice to get em, but his background was always that he hated the Undead for what they do to him.

Still, Tomb Kings get Arkhan the Black, how does that make any sense?

 

[spineyrequiem]

Didn't the Tomb Blade do exactly that? Turn enemies into skeleton warriors? Well, we know what item we won't be getting in the magic items section then...

 

[Lynks]

Didn't the Tomb Blade do exactly that? Turn enemies into skeleton warriors? Well, we know what item we won't be getting in the magic items section then...

It's likely that a lot of our items will be passed off to special characters only status. At leasst it's better than the other ones which will just be ditched.

 

[Count von toten]

I think zombies should bring killed enemies back as freshly raised zombies on a 5+. To show the zombie plague claiming new victims. This could synergise with things like the corpse cart to bring back killed enemies on a 4+ say.

 

[Maldorien]

I don't know if my GW store manager is correct. But he says that a big fantasy release is planned for December. He doesn't know about the army that might be released then. But he believed that it might be VC as he has heard/read alot of rumours on several forums.

IF he is correct!!!: my guess is we get an early release (maybe with santa zombies :slapface in december. (very likely)
Or another army is ready to be deployed, and the rumours were all wrong (very unlikely). And our book will be postponed till february or so.
Or something else, maybe a big finecast release with some new SoM-monsters (pure guessing here).

 

[Malchus Von Carstein]

Actually, I think it's entirely likely that our core restrictions are going away. Everyone else's seem to have done so.

Actually, I view it as well within the realm of probability that, if the new cav box does turn out to be dual kit, we'll end up with some core cavalry as well. Speculation has gone to some sort of wraith cavalry, but given that we already have one rare cav unit, it seems unlikely that they'd give us another.

Now that actually makes a lot of sense - more than what I was thinking, I certainly hope you're right.

Also I really hope the Wraith cavalry rumour turns out to be true!

 

[The Night Masquerade]

Well well,

In my webshop for GW (Maelstrom) our beloved Vampire Counts book just changed status to "while stock lasts" with only 4 copies left, which means as good as that our next Codex is coming for sure, very soon!

This was exactly the same thing what happened with the launch of the Ogre Kingdoms...

Can you already smell the fear of others? I do....:konrad:

 

[Mr Saturday]

Hmm, exciting stuff...

 

[N.I.B]

Mortis Engine...

 

[Tim]

Mortis engines and coven thrones are exciting yes indeed!

 

[Count Von Sapponatime]

I thought you boys would like that.

 

[Lynks]

Gah! you three made me read 18 pages of zombie wishlisting to get to one line where you said the same thing that was said here! Any more info you have on them that you are holding out from warseer Count?

 

[Nepenthe]

mortis engine? give more info!