Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Well if we have dropped crumbling from our general and on characters I will be happy as hell.
I don't mind if we lose our spamming so much provided we can have Invocation on all character vampires though, more than one caster and it fine.
Regardless with 5 points skeletons, they will be good to fill gaps in the rank but unless they are highly buff able I will take my 20 ghouls over them any day and make up the number difference by not sucking in combat.

 

[Scarr Reincarnated]

Yes, crumbling really hurts Skeletons so much. They can't even keep up units long because they lose combat by tons. I would still use them though, because I love the miniatures and I like saves.

I think that maybe doing a MSU style may be good with the new book. We will see. I could absolutely see from the rumours that a army comprised by Vargheists, a Coven Throne and 2 units of Hexwraiths + Core could be good. Of course we can't tell for sure because we haven't got any points listings yet, not for the new stuff anyways.

I hope that the times of Blood Knight or Grave Guard Deathstars are gone, because that was the only real thing keeping me from playing them. Too easy and too boring.

 

[N.I.B]

So I look away for the holidays, and the VC pics hit Awesome models, I like them all and love most of them.

As for the imho important stuff - the rules - we're pretty much still in the dark when it comes to the VC new power level. It's not so much about stats and point costs - VC has always been about the items, vampire powers and magic, and don't see that changing with this book.

Core - 10 point Ghouls only means it's enough to take 61 Ghouls with champions divided in two units, instead of 79 Ghouls - to reach the 25% core at 2500 points.
Dire Wolves might open up a world of interesting possibilities, if they are going back to true core.
Skellies and Zombies will continue to be pointless unless there will be some new synergy still unknown at this point. Lowered point costs don't really enter the equation. 5-point and 3-point turds are still turds. The only reason I've been fielding Skellies in 8th ed to this point, is that I couldn't be arsed to buy and paint up more Ghouls. Now I don't have to
I haven't seen Zombies fielded since 6th edition, and I don't think I will in 8th either, especially if we lose the Helm. A possible 6+ reg from the Mortis Engine is not enough substitute. Speaking of which

Rare - if I look at the CT/ME rules in a vacuum, they look pretty crappy for the points (somewere around Terrorgheist cost I think). But nothing exist in a vacuum, the new magic rules will decide if the new fancy chariot/engine will see any play.

Shooting off a wild guess, I think the new 'best' builds will be defensive Master Necromancers and in-your-face Vampire lord builds, and anything mounted on anything else than a horse sized steed will be for gimmick games with friends. I hope I'm wrong, would really like a gaming-based reason to buy the new awesome models.

P.S. The IoN-radius raising sounds promising.

 

[Scarr Reincarnated]

I think it would be rather weird if even with that setback Ghouls would still be the best. I think they would still be used but at the same time, with them costing 10 points each, I think it would be to pricy to only use Ghouls as Core. I think you get less troops than you should have. Having lots of models never hurt. I think that I would only use like 30 Ghouls in a 2400 points game based on the rumours. They are expensive and die to elite stuff easily.

I think 2 units of 15 would be good at flanking, thus getting lots of Combat Resolution and minimal damage taken against Elite units.

Skeletons are gonna need tons of support to last, but they should be able to win combats with their ranks, Banner, something in the flank or rear (like Vargheists or Knights) plus some Characters.

I think that with the current rumours of weakened support from your characters alone, Ghouls will have problems matching against fairly strong units on their own.

This of course is completely out from rumours and I expect things to show up that may prove otherwise. I am just throwing my thoughts in.

Edit: I think having as less Core as possible is a bad idea for most armies except maybe HE and Dwarfs and of course the current Vampire Counts. The new book looks like it may be a good idea but we obviously don't know yet.

 

[Zephyr]

Seems like I did just fine with my 80+ skellies and 20 Ghouls. The mention of another char gaining control after the generals' death is very interesting. I lost so many games due to crumbling after my general's death it became annoying.
Good to see the necromancer's return also!

Only thing I really hate so far is the army book cover. Ugliest cover I've seen in over fifteen years of gaming.:O

 

[Darkblossom]

The new models are looking marvelous. I love to see the new 'revival' of Lahmia. It has always been my favourite bloodline, and now we have some beautiful new models that can be a centrepiece in our army.
But what happened with the cover ?!? I realy hope it is not a reflection of the content ...

 

[old man doom]

Only thing I really hate so far is the army book cover. Ugliest cover I've seen in over fifteen years of gaming.:O

I don't know, I think the new TK army book cover is the worst.

 

[Sanai]

I like the cover actually.
I also like that its looking like skeletons are back with a vengeance (complete with black knights and the like)

 

[hairyjeff]

And my boys got me another 40 skellies for christmas !

 

[Sanai]

I have painted 25 skellies the other day, and have 30 sitting in front of me right now in the process of being painted
and the even cooler thing is, I was planning on being full skeleton anyway back when they sucked .

 

[Sception]

I wouldn't get your hopes up on skeletons being back in business. I haven't heard anything other then a points cut, which would leave them good for only two things - bunkers (which we already use them for) and tar pits, and they'd only be halfway good at the latter since they still melt twice as fast as any other tarpit out there, and we would still have zombies for an even cheaper fast-melting tar pit option.

They'd still be a poor choice for a battle line unit, as they'd still lose badly to basically anything better then a skaven slave, badly enough to take any friendly characters or supporting units down with them due to instability. Unless you plan on replacing their entire front rank with characters, I guess, but that's gimmicky and very expensive, certainly not something you can do with more then one unit, so you won't be populating a battle line with them.

The simple fact is, the problem with skeletons as a battle line unit isn't their cost, though indeed they were overpriced. The problem is that they're just physically incapable of performing the task. Even if ghouls do cost twice as much as skeletons in the new book, they'll still be the better choice for populating an infantry battle line because they're able to perform that role at all. Frankly, unless we see some notable, skeleton-only buffs in items or bloodlines, I don't predict the current imbalance between ghouls and skeletons changing much, because it wasn't an issue of points costs to begin with. 10 point ghouls doesn't mean you get to use skellies instead, it just means you have fewer points left over with which to buy throw away units like skeletons after filling out your battle line.


I do hope I'm wrong, I have twice as many skeletons as ghouls, as I think the models are just way better. I would love to be able to form a real battle line of skeletons and wights without having to rely on ugly, poorly ranking, butt sniffing ghouls to fill it out. But for me to take more then the bunker I already do, they'd need to be better, not just cheaper. Good enough that Skeletons + black knights in the same combat wouldn't be objectively worse then black knights fighting by themselves unsupported.

 

[Sanai]

From what I hear, skellies are far more raisable than ghouls (not sure ghouls are even raisable at all)
Also, I dont nee them to be tournament effective. I just play casual games, and was willing to use them even as they were. The way they are now is just an added bonus to them.

 

[Sception]

I only play casual games as well, but even so it's hard for me to overlook the fact that skeletons + black knights is worse then black knights on their own. When that's the case, skeletons aren't just being sub-optimal, they're actively hurting me. Oh, I field them anyway, because I love the models. And if they do get cheaper in the new book, then at least they'll be hurting me less. But whenever I put skeletons on the front line, I just can't escape the feeling that I would have been better off spending those same points on absolutely nothing, and that's not exactly a fun experience.

 

[Nagashizzar]

Would be awesome if we will be able to put Crypt Horrors in a regiment of Ghouls like the Skink/Kroxigor unit

 

[Sception]

I plan on doing that anyway, just using the horrors as unit fillers.

 

[Forgotten Heretic]

the only thing i'm a little disappointed about is that we haven't heard anything about Necrarch related stuff, yeah you could say the mortis engine is linked (and i do intend to make that necro look like a vampire) but it looks to me to be more of a necromancers thing and there is nothing else so far while the other bloodlines have been represented, hopefully zombies will be better as well as cheaper. At least Mannfred is still in the book, he's always been my favourite Von Carstein

 

[Abomination]

I really wonder weather the Vargheists are going to replace the FellBats or if they will be an additzional chaoice. since the fell bats with their low point costs were excellent divergers. I think that we cannot expect the vargheists to be equally cheap ( judging by the rather badass stats I've heard about ).
I as well wonder about wether we will be able to summon spirit hosts, or if they get a lot cheaper, otherwise they will be a dead entry :ghost:
I expect that banshees and wraiths will be banned from the rare choices ( leaving me with tons to many ) which will bring them into direct conflict with Wight Kings and Necromancers.

A bloodline thing would be rather nice actually.I really am looking forward to new Necrarch models!

And I have heard a weird rumor about vampires: each time they inflict a wound on a person they roll a d6. at a 6they restore a lost wound. can anyone affirm that?

 

[N.I.B]

When it comes to the bloodlines, it looks like they will stay dead, with possible exception for a small Strigoi revival in the Ghoul King. We didn't get a Neferata (Lahmia), we got Isabella (von Carstein).

GW decided to stay on track and let the von Carsteins dominate (they even spells it out this time, 'the most powerful bloodline') with 'flavours' tucked in, in the form of powers reminiscing of the 6th edition book. Although when it comes to the army itself (units), we have more options that ever before to embroider our bloodline-ish army of choice.

Master Necromancers are probably taking the place of Necrarchs, and I can see why. They wouldn't differ enough, unless you dedicate a complete bloodline tree to the Necrarchs. I do love the 'Army of the Cairns' lore that Kemmler and Krell got going.

Vlad's wife is the new Lahmia, along with the Coven Throne.

Still excited for this book, I expect options of a full necromancer/Wight Kings army, ethereal heavy army, Unholy Choir army, Strigoi-esque army with Ghoul King, Varghulfs, Crypt Horrors/Vargheys and Ghouls. Maybe even a full cavalry army.

Dreadknight = WS9 = Blood Dragon. yay. At least Blood Knights are cheaper now and we get options for new funky Fast Cavalry (soon to be restricted in a tournament near you).

 

[N.I.B]

I really wonder weather the Vargheists are going to replace the FellBats or if they will be an additzional chaoice. since the fell bats with their low point costs were excellent divergers. I think that we cannot expect the vargheists to be equally cheap ( judging by the rather badass stats I've heard about ).

Fell Bats probaby stays, in finecast.
Vargheist (special)
- Flying Monstrous Infantry that has Fly, Frenzy, and 3A. 45 points IIRC.

I as well wonder about wether we will be able to summon spirit hosts, or if they get a lot cheaper, otherwise they will be a dead entry

Probably not summoned, but they ARE much cheaper, some 35-40 points IIRC.

I expect that banshees and wraiths will be banned from the rare choices which will bring them into direct conflict with Wight Kings and Necromancers.

Confirmed, more or less, Banshees and Wraiths are no longer rare choices. But I've never understood those who complain that VC have too many good hero choices, especially not in 8th ed when you can SPAM cheap heroes.

And I have heard a weird rumor about vampires: each time they inflict a wound on a person they roll a d6. at a 6they restore a lost wound. can anyone affirm that?

Confirmed. All Vampire has rule called "Hunger" - You get to roll a D6 when the vampire kills one or more models in combat, on a 6 you recovers one wound. (Vlad with Blood Drinker pass the roll on 4+).

This is kind of fun, as it's the exact mechanism I suggested back in one of the wishlisting threads earlier. Though it's very weak, and the Blooddrinker sword is but a shade of it's old glory.
What does make it interesting, is that it seem to be working with every unit that has the Vampiric rule. Makes Varghulf/Bloodknights/Vargheist/Black Coach a bit better.

 

[Mr Saturday]

Already I can see the threads of a list coming together. The Coven throne does seem to be a decent choice (but I'll be converting the rider to something less Lahmian), but even with a 4+ ward it's a risk, it's so big you could hit it from the next table. The new rules do seem to offer some obvious synergies, the regen bubble could be very nice, in association with fast moving hard-hitting vampiric units. One thing that bothers me though is the lack of a resolution to our core problems. Sexy special and rare choices are great, and I can see some pure filthy lists, but I dearly want to field legions of skeletons that are able to perform some viable function on the battlefield. Perhaps it's in there, time will tell I guess.

 

[Scarr Reincarnated]

Wow the Vargheists look really solid. 4 Attacks each + Stomp and the Hunger rule is going to hurt on a flying unit that can march. Frenzy could be a problem though...

 

[The Dead of Night]

This is kind of fun, as it's the exact mechanism I suggested back in one of the wishlisting threads earlier. Though it's very weak, and the Blooddrinker sword is but a shade of it's old glory.
What does make it interesting, is that it seem to be working with every unit that has the Vampiric rule. Makes Varghulf/Bloodknights/Vargheist/Black Coach a bit better.

Though it is a tad weak on it's own, I think if they made it any stronger vampires would be invincible thanks to the vampiric lore attribute. As you say, it will be most interesting on vampire units anyway.

On the Blooddrinker I originally thought the same thing, but I wonder if it has some other attribute on top of that? An increased chance to wound perhaps? Or maybe double wounds like Konrad's old sword? If not, I kinda feel sad for poor old Vlad.

 

[Zhatan]

Only thing I really hate so far is the army book cover. Ugliest cover I've seen in over fifteen years of gaming.:O

Haha I agree. Why they put a 15 year old emo kid on the cover is beyond me.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

we cant have it all ways. why should we have the very best of everything. we now have a fantastic special and rare selections and very good heroes and lords. If core became very good we would be over powered again . I just hope we dont get OP items and powers. I hope helm of BL**dy comand has gone (so broken) and spell spamming has to go. Also invocation has to have a slightly higher casting value if its a bubble effect maybe 6+ for 6 inch 12 for 12 inch and 18 for 18 inch seems fair.Especially if every caster will be able to take it

 

[Forgotten Heretic]

Dreadknight = WS9 = Blood Dragon. yay. At least Blood Knights are cheaper now and we get options for new funky Fast Cavalry (soon to be restricted in a tournament near you).

i didn't think blood knights had gotten much cheaper? by something like 5pts? which is still a huge amount to pay for them