Sunny's challenge

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I don't. It might be semantics, but my army is in no way slow. The CH have M6 and so do the Spirit Hosts. The Vargs have Fly and the rest of the army is as fast as any normal infantry list. :)

I do get your meaning though, but if there was three categories: Slow, Normal and Fast - this army would be in the "normal" category and your BK list would be in the "fast" category :)
 
Does the vamp lord in crypt ghouls work well? I have always been strain of the no armor and losing by a lot
 
The Sun King said:
I don't. It might be semantics, but my army is in no way slow. The CH have M6 and so do the Spirit Hosts. The Vargs have Fly and the rest of the army is as fast as any normal infantry list. :)

I do get your meaning though, but if there was three categories: Slow, Normal and Fast - this army would be in the "normal" category and your BK list would be in the "fast" category :)

okay we can settle and agreement over this,

i accept your offer, have a fresh milk from my cat :thumbsup:
 
Thank you Sunny!! The list sounds like it would be a good beginner fantasy/VC army! I think I will build that list :)

If you have time, could you explain deployment strategies, general tips for the movement phase, and perhaps what formations you generally use? It would really help a noob like me out :)

Thanks
 
How do you exactly place the core of your army, Sunny?

ZZZZZ GGGGGGGGGG CHCHCHCHCH ZZZZZ

ZZZZZ ME ME ZZZZZ​

?

How do you move your MN to get the snipes?

Thanks!
 
@Badfox: Well I don't know if he works wonders in the Ghouls, but the point is that he can shred armor saves with his S7, so it's a discouragement for knights and the like to slam into the Ghouls and make them explode in gush of blood. Regarding your fearfulness about the Ghouls not having any armor... that is where the Mortis Engines come in, you'll be amazed to see how tough Ghouls are with their T4 and 5+ regen, they become a really frightening combat unit.

@Prince Charming: LOL! :happy:

@Stuck: You're welcome dude! Well I don't know if it's a "beginners list" per se, but it has a really solid foundation, you still have to know how to play your army though. I would say that patience is your strongest friend with this list. Don't get frightened when you get bombarded with Magic, Shooting and Artillery - undead rise again... or they don't go down at all because of their Regen :D

Formations:
Crypt Horrors: 5 Wide
Ghouls: 10 Wide
Zombies: 5 Wide
Vargheists: Variable (normally I would deploy them 3 wide because of easier movement and the extra rank bonus)
Note: It's very important to be able to be flexible with your formations, most of the time you'll keep the formations like they were when you put them on the board, but don't get stuck with this or that idea. Be flexible. For instance if the Ghouls cannot avoid facing a very hardhitting enemy that is better than them - reform them 5 wide to prevent casualties and stick around untill your can get reinforcements. A rule of thumb is: Is the enemy unit better at fighting than you? Then go 5 wide. Is the enemy unit weaker at fighting than you? Then go wider than him(horde if your have the numbers for it).

Tips for the movement phase:
1. Use your SH as redirectors - you want them to hold up stuff like monsters and MC - if you do, it's your lucky day :D
2. Keep your fighting units within range of your ME's so you'll have the 5+ regen at all times.
3. Try to close in on your enemy as fast as possible so that when he shoots your ME's down he'll get the explosions in his face as well.
4. Use the Zombies as bunkers, I usually run mine behind the line, but a couple on the flanks is fine as well.
5. Try to figure out when to move the unit containing your VL. Units within 12" of him can still march so sometimes you want him to stay put in the beginning of your phase so the units farthest behind can march, then move the VL and the units at the front can also march... if you get my meaning?
6. Be patient with your Vargheists. The reason I have 6 in a single unit is so that they can take a beating from shooting and magic and still be around. This gives them the time they need to set up a juicy charge. Hint: Get the enemy in his flanks. It is almost always a bad idea to charge a unit of Vargs into the front of something UNLESS you are suiciding them into his Wizard bunker and killing his general.

Deployment:
SH ZZZZZ GGGGGGGGGG CHCHCHCHCH ZZZZZ SH

ZZZZZ ME ME ZZZZZ VVV​
This is something close to what I usually do if you get a standard scenario. If you have some sort of random deployment scenario like Meeting Engagement or Dawn Attack, try to get as many units as possible within your VL's marching bubble and keep the ME's with the main force. This army is very weak if it gets seperated. Strength in numbers (and regen :D). Actually more often than not I have the ME's on the front line as well in the middle.


@Luvadin: Good question regarding the MN(se above for deployment). I usually have him in the front ranks(his bunker on the front line) until the enemy is getting too close for comfort and then I move him back into a bunker behind the line. You really want him in the front rank when facing Lizardmen and Ogres so you can throw that Purple Sun in their faces :D
 
now that was a informative post^^

i can very well see this army work sunny, also, now i understand the seed of rebirth ont he VL hahah:$

anyways, u got some bat reps with that list, kinda intrested to see how it prefers against players, rather than math hammer
 
Thanks PC! I have a batrep lying around with my Manny Dual Engines list which is somewhat similar - I used to squash my enemies with that list - so I hope this one will do even better(this one is more stable). I hope I'll get the time to do some batreps from the League itself - and I'll be sure to leave a comment here if I do :)

Found the batrep: https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Sunny-vs-DoC-2500-pts?highlight=manny
 
I forgot about your double mortis engine. I usually don't use the mortis engine so that is why i was wondering about putting your lord in there. Looks like a solid list.
 
Thanks for the info, like the tricky move of the MN, very reasonable and useful. I've also read elsewhere something about healing an extra wound in your Vargheist unit if you have a champion. How does that work exactly?
 
I'm not entirely sure what you are referring to with the extra wound, I'm not aware of it if there is such a trick. Maybe you're talking about the conga-line trick. If you have 3 Vargs with a Champion you can deploy them 1 wide with the champ in front and charge them into a Wizard Bunker... even if it's say a unit of Swordmasters that have ASF you can still kill the Wizard since the SM unit have to allocate all their attacks to the champion(excess wounds do not spill over to the remaining 2 Vargs) and the the two vargs can hit with all their attacks on the wizard - the Varg unit will probably die but they will often get the wizard with them so that's a nifty little trick.
 
I was referring to this:

Larro said:
And Invoke? Invoke with a unit Champion, assuming he is injured, allows you to sneak heal an additional 3rd wound (1 wound "per model" + Lore attribute for 3 in total).
 
The Sun King said:
I'm not sure I follow? The thing is that IoN heals the unit, not the champ, and then you can heal the champ with the lore attribute. :)

i i follow, i follow you, to the grave yard hunny, i follow you


anyways, that is a good tactic with the magical shizzle manizzle u are talking about here ^^

I played a game with your list against dark elves today naughty for stealing it:devil2:

and it worked okay, really resilient and secure, but still, it is not what i seek sunny mannzz
 
What I was saying is that I thought IoN heals just 1 wound for a Vampiric unit, so it's 1 and potentially 2 if you use the Lore Attribute on a wounded champion, but not 2 by default and then the potential extra heal for wounded champion.
 
The Sun King said:
@Luvadin: Ahh I see, yes that is correct.

@Prince Charming: Nice that you're a naughty little one! please tell me more about the game!

came down to, him shooting at me, i regenning alot, and i got my crypt horrors smacked in combat with his witch elves, bloody as hell, but they came out with 2 wounds remaining, hahaha!
 

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