The 9th Age The 9th Age version 1.0

[Mad 'At]

Just thought I'd let you guys know. After many months of work the 1.0 version of 9th Age has finally been released. You can read all about these news here, and check out the rules here.

The big thing about this release is that there will be no changes for a long while now. Around September the design process will start again, so until then we want to gather as much data and input as we possibly can so that the next version becomes even better.

Feel free to discuss anything 9th Age related in this thread. I'd personally be very happy to hear your thoughts

 

[Irisado]

I'd say that from now until September is a very short period of time ..

I think that it's great that so many people got together to work on this. It's very difficult coordinating fan developed rules, and managing all the different expectations and opinions. I'll read through the rules in more detail later. From what I have seen, they haven't reduced or removed the inherent problems I've had with Fantasy over the last few editions, so I doubt that I'll return to the game. Regardless, I appreciate the amount of effort that this has taken and the fact that the PDFs are free .

 

[Borgnine]

I had the impression that earlier vampires were forced into a single bloodline - but now, seeing that it's certainly not the case, 9th Age has my interest back! There are powers, common magic items, specific magic items - all the customization that I like and which both AoS and KoW cannot give me. Now I only need to take some time to look through the rules and see what's different.

I read briefly through the special rules and ward saves/regeneration caught my attention. It's still how it was in the 8th edition, that they are interchangeable and almost completely the same. Wouldn't it be interesting if they worked differently? Maybe that regeneration kicks in after all the attacks are done? I don't know how it could be balanced, but I always thought that they should be either more different or one of them should go. Still, it's a rather minor thing

Good job for everyone involved for getting it all done I must say I really like the graphical side of it, all those simple, yet climatic b&w pictures

 

[Oppenheimer]

That TK book is beautiful. So impressed by the custom art work

 

[Mad 'At]

I must say that I am myself thoroughly impressed by the work that's been put into this. Seeing so many people join up and contribute was incredible, and that it was possible to coordinate it into a functioning ruleset that so far is looking quite balanced is even more incredible. The shear amount of opinions that has been raised on those forums is staggering, and while we certainly haven't been able to please all, the majority still seem pretty happy with it. And that is the thing really, it is impossible to please everyone, and you always have to make compromises. I am myself not happy about everything, but the I still consider the end product a very good set of rules.

All the work alongside the rules has been really cool too. The art is fantastic and what little fluff that so far has been released I really liked. Have very high hopes for what's to come on that front.

@Borgnine There is certainly some customization possible in the VC book. Not quite as much as I would have liked, but as I said, compromise. Still, I personally think it is a lot better than 8th as there rules actually makes me want to use Vampire Lords.

Ward and Regeneration saves work pretty much the same way as in 8th. One difference though is the addition of Divine Attacks which force you to reroll Ward Saves (but not regeneration).

 

[Leithel]

I have been playing a lot of 9th and KoW and love them both. 9th has a list building element that many of my gaming group love, and I like it too though perhaps not as much. In 9th you also have the feeling that your characters are just so important and pivotal to your game.

The rules are good, they are balanced to a point and the games are enjoyable. I no longer feel like I just can't take this unit because it's just horrible or I have to take this unit or I just won't win. My friend who plays demons has a different army each time I play him instead of similar lists with roughly the same makeup.

I play Undead in 9th mostly instead of KoW (as they are based for 9th). They're really good fun to list build with. Some elements (Nosferatu for example) I struggle to find ways to win with, but by and large it's all good fun. If you haven't tried it and you liked 6th I highly recommend that you give it a shot. Aside from the random charge range, it's the closest version to what 9th has become.

 

[Irisado]

I did like sixth edition Warhammer (the last version of the game that I really played), so that augurs well for me.

I have taken a look at the Vampire book now, and I like what I'm seeing. The work that has gone into it is very impressive. I hope that I'll get to try it out one of these days, but it's going to be difficult for me to find anyone to play against in the short-term.

 

[Aranei]

I'm playing AoS, KoW and tried 9th Age once.
About this "final" version:
Nosferatu bloodline is still overpriced.
Mortis Engine is nerfed (compared to 8th ed), this was unnesessary IMO.
All the other stuff is OK.
Halberds on skeleton are a good option.
Would love some theme armies, though (like the terracota army and mound army in the undying dynasties document, they were great).
Btw, why do necromancers have the lore of fire? It hardly fits thematically, I think.

 

[Borgnine]

Btw, why do necromancers have the lore of fire? It hardly fits thematically, I think.

I also thought so when you pointed it out, but then I imagined necromancers casting green flames, not red-orange - and that totally fits

 

[Mad 'At]

@Leithel: I'm glad to hear you are using it. What is your lists normally like? I tend to go for Nosferatu or Von Karstein myself, with lots of infantry (though so far that is mostly because I'm limited by the models I own, I have plans for other kinds of armies).

Interesting that you find it similar to 6th. Other than the Bloodlines I can't really see why. Possibly the trend towards more MSU armies? As you pointed out, characters are pretty strong in 9th, and that's a pretty big difference from 6th IMO.

@Irisado: Have you checked out the user map at the 9th age forum? Might help you with finding players.

@Aranei: What did you use in that one game?
About Nosferatu. Large parts of the community appear to think that, while many of the very elite players at least in Sweden consider Nosferatu the best choice by far. It could be that the Bloodline is a little bit overcosted on lords and that the Arcane Knowledge power is priced a bit cheap (as it seems very popular compared to the others). On the other hand, I've used both a Nosferatu Lord and Hero successfully at a tournament last weekend. Blood Magic gave me a very solid magic phase and Forbidden Path combined with Essence of a Free Mind gave me a very flexible support caster.

Undying Dynasties added those theme armies largely to compensate for our Bloodlines actually. therein lies our themed armies. I have some ideas on how to strengthen that theme in later releases, possible by adding more Bloodties units.

Path of Fire was added partly to give us access to some ranged attacks, and just as @Borgnine says, with green flames it fits perfectly

 

[Aranei]

@Leithel:

@Aranei: What did you use in that one game?
About Nosferatu. Large parts of the community appear to think that, while many of the very elite players at least in Sweden consider Nosferatu the best choice by far. It could be that the Bloodline is a little bit overcosted on lords and that the Arcane Knowledge power is priced a bit cheap (as it seems very popular compared to the others). On the other hand, I've used both a Nosferatu Lord and Hero successfully at a tournament last weekend. Blood Magic gave me a very solid magic phase and Forbidden Path combined with Essence of a Free Mind gave me a very flexible support caster.

Undying Dynasties added those theme armies largely to compensate for our Bloodlines actually. therein lies our themed armies. I have some ideas on how to strengthen that theme in later releases, possible by adding more Bloodties units.

Path of Fire was added partly to give us access to some ranged attacks, and just as @Borgnine says, with green flames it fits perfectly

I had a list pretty close to what I used in 8th ed:
Master Necromanser
2x Necromancers (For Invocations and extra arcane items)
40x Spear Skeletons (that was before the halberds were introduced)
6x Crypt Horrors
and a Corpse Cart (around 1100pts total)

IMO, the only reason to take a Nosferatu Lord is for the Blood Magic, without this power he is just a more expensive and weaker (in melee) than a generic vamp lord with 3rd level wizard upgrade. That means that you spend a lot of points on a vamp lord who can't even wear armor!

Undying Dynasties theme armies affect a lot of units, and Bloodlines affect only vamps, vamp lords an 1 extra unit. More Bloodties isn't a bad idea, definitely. Possibly Mortis Engine or Spirit Hosts for Necrarchs, Vargheists for von Carstein, Grave guard/Black Knights for Blood Dragons, Crypt Horrors for Strigoi (dunno what for Lahmias)?

 

[Mad 'At]

@Aranei: Sounds like a pretty solid list, although maybe a bit short on chaff units.

Blood Magic is nice (though some consider the penalty of taking a wound too steep), but compared to other Vampire Counts he also has 2 additional spells. Being forced to switch one for Invocation of the Undead is mostly a benefit too, as you can take for example Death on him and still get that crucial spell to keep your army going. A popular build I've encountered is Arcane Power and Path of Death. Range 30" Soul Leech and Cloud of Despair is scary.

Some good ideas. One thought I had for Phantom Host was that Nosferatu could give them Channel. That would be a simple way to boost the magic of the army, and give more incentive to take Ethereals. For Lamia we've had trouble coming up with ideas tbh. Giving skeletons bows is one option, but many believe it would just turn the army in Undying Dynasties 100%. One thought we had was giving the Barrow King the option to take Unliving Shield to protect Lamia vampires. That would lessen the penalty of not having armour on them.

 

[Leithel]

I like to vary my lists but I'm a Strigoi fan mostly as you'd know if you've visited my PLOG. I went to a 9th age tourney here in Sydney a few weeks back and took:

Ghoul Lord with the dragonbane gem and the rule that gives ghouls hatred
Ghoul Hero with Bestial Bulk (before they changed it)

34 Ghouls with full command and banner of speed (Lord in here)
2x5 Dire Wolves

5 Ghasts (hero in here)
Varkolak

Black Coach
Mortis Engine

There were some magic items in there also, I don't remember exactly what.

Leading up to the tourney it was 4 wins from 4 games against demons and tomb ki.... undying dynasties. But that's a good match-up for me with this army.

Got 1 win, 1 loss and 1 draw so it was a good result. The loss I got tabled against an Ogre army where everything had flaming attacks, I never really had a chance against a unit of 5 man eaters with 3 characters including a BSB and the flaming banner. Now if I'd had a Terrorgheist it would have been a different game, but I chose the coach because it was painted and to be honest it was a STAR in the other two games and a number of opponents have called it the most powerful chariot in the game AFTER it smushed them up a little.

The draw was one of the most fun games ever. The ghouls took on a unit of pheonix guard, dragon princes and spearmen with magical support all at once AND WON. It took 5 saves of 5+ on 8 dice and a 3 on a leadership test for my opponent to pull out a draw. He had a BSB on a flying chariot which was fantastic and had the lore of fire which was just nasty against me. Fire is good again ladies and gents, fire is GOOD!

The last game was me on the bottom 3 tables, wiped out an army of orcs and spiders 19-1. Relaxed game, I skipped a few magic phases to keep my opponent in the game, he didn't notice.

The thing I've noticed with 9th is that Death Star units are definitely still a thing. I know they've tried to tone that down a little with the rules but at least half the armies had a deathstar of some kind. Me with the ghouls (that's over 800 points in one unit BTW), the man eaters I played against, one guy had 3 assassins and a bsb in a dark elf spearmen unit. I'm not saying it's bad, just interesting. Your list build, IMO, is still much more important than your in game tactics.

Here's how I put it, in 9th, good tactics may not win you the game but bad tactics will lose it for you. In KoW, good list building won't win you a game, but bad list building will lose it. Two games, very different play style, lots of fun for me playing both!

 

[Mad 'At]

Looks like that list took some unnecessary nerfs in the v1.0, sorry about that. The story of the Bestial Hulk is a bit sad one. The abusive builds that were possible with it resulted in a bit of overnerfing. That is one of the first things that I hope to address in the next release.

The coach also took some quite heavy nerfing in v1.0. It is still very useful though, but perhaps it won't be accused of being the most powerful chariot in the game anymore

Interesting that you've found Deathstars common. I played at a tournament last weekend and didn't encounter anything close to a Deathstar. I faced a DE flying circus, a DE shooting list, a UD monster mash, a HE elite infantry horde and a swarming VS army. I guess the metas are pretty different around the world so far.

List building important indeed, but less so than 8th I would say, since most choices are viable.

 

[Dark Lord Necrotis]

I haven't had a chance to play 9th age (because I live in Kenya) but I looked at the rules. I feel that they took out more of the stuff that was over-powered and put in more things that are fun. Overall, it looks more balanced that 8th edition did.

 

[Irisado]

@Irisado: Have you checked out the user map at the 9th age forum? Might help you with finding players.

Thanks for the suggestion. I only play against people I now in real life or get to know very well online, so pick up games like that are not something I'm comfortable with. I do have a friend who, like me, used to play Fantasy, so I'm hoping to persuade him to have a game. He has Daemons, who used to always crush my Vampire Counts into the dust in sixth edition, so it would be interesting to see whether the new rules make life a bit easier facing them.

Just a quick note on Necromancers unleashing fire, I see no problem with this. I think that certain computer games and some rather restrictive lore have combined to give the impression that Necromancers do not use fire spells. This is misleading, since many of them started off as wizards, and since fire is one of the easier lores to learn, I see no issue with them unleashing fire spells.

 

[Leithel]

The story of the Bestial Hulk is a bit sad one.

Never noticed an abusive build, but I did have a lot of success with it. It's not gone, for me the great shame is that I saw the bestial bulk not being a leadership quality, but now it's a lord only choice. I don't like it fluff wise but I could still build a very similar army, just with my general in the ghasts instead of the ghouls.

The coach also took some quite heavy nerfing in v1.0. It is still very useful though, but perhaps it won't be accused of being the most powerful chariot in the game anymore

I can't see any difference from what it was when I played it. I just love to play it, take out some chaff and all of a sudden it turns from a regular chariot into a spooky grinding flying ethereal vampire touting f#@k bus!!! ... erm, excuse me, love the black coach.

Interesting that you've found Deathstars common. I played at a tournament last weekend and didn't encounter anything close to a Deathstar. ... I guess the metas are pretty different around the world so far.

Yes I suspect that the people I played against are more still stuck in 8th edition. I mean there was one guy that rage quit in the first round of the second game and went home, also the same guy using goblin wolf riders as vampire knights. That's pretty 8th edition isn't it?

List building important indeed, but less so than 8th I would say, since most choices are viable.

Interesting I was listening to the 9th age podcast from ohio hammer, normally a good cast but they were reviewing the 1.0 O&G list and the cast was full of complaints about how there are several units that aren't viable in the list. I haven't played O&G much, but either that's just a horrible attempt at a list review or there are still components that you just can't take if you want to be effective. Hopefully it's just the cast.

 

[Mad 'At]

@Dark Lord Necrotis: You should give it a try =)

@Irisado: I hope you'll be able to persuade him. Btw, you aren't perhaps thinking of 7th edition Daemons, cause those were insane. In 6th they were part of Hordes of Chaos and were honestly quite overcosted.

@Leithel: The abusive build with Bestial Hulk was the Ghast-Star, a big unit of Ghast with 3 or more characters in it, and with Tullius' Teeth. It was insane. What is sad about it is that we in the abc designed the Bestial Hulk to make Hero vamps more interesting. Somewhere along the line the power got a bit too much stuff though and quickly became a bit too powerful. The RT nerfed it and nerfed it hard, and in the process made it impossible for Heroes to take. So our initial thought with it went down the drain pretty much.

The Dark Coach had 3+ Armour then, only 4+ now, and Extended Chassis gave it a 5th Wound, now it gives and extra two attacks with the horses. It is still decent though.

What made the Wolf Rider Blood Knight player rage quit? Did something bad happen to his Wolf Riders?

OnG has some problem with being a book that is loaded with an abundance of units, many quite similar. They've had some trouble finding a purpose for each and every unit. I personally still think most of the units are useful, though maybe Iron Orcs and the Great Green Idol could use a buff. The Gargantual is also pretty much an auto-include for many players. I don't use it though and my army is still strong. Might post some lists up if you'd be interested.

 

[Leithel]

Oh I didn't think of a Ghast Star, but yeah that would be tough. I have to admit I was sad to see Tullius' teeth go. I enjoyed my WS5 distracting zombie horde. Talk about a tar pit, however alas it is no more. I was even going to model some beach babe zombies for the front rank. Shame.

Yeah the Wolf Rider Blood Knight player lost his knights in the first turn, winged about not being able to do anything now (guess it was his only unit) and then packed up and left. I feel for the guy who played him heh.

I forgot about the extra wound. I find it weird that the Von Carstein rule only gives it stubborn, seems somewhat irrelevant. With only 4 wounds if it loses combat it's probably going to die regardless of stubborn. I still love it though.

 

[Irisado]

@Irisado: I hope you'll be able to persuade him. Btw, you aren't perhaps thinking of 7th edition Daemons, cause those were insane. In 6th they were part of Hordes of Chaos and were honestly quite overcosted.

I haven't heard back from him yet. He's getting married in a few months, so I'm too optimistic about my chances of getting a game.

You're right, I mixed up my editions. It's Daemons from seventh, and yes they are brutal. My core units just disappeared at an alarming rate in close combat against even basic units of Daemons whenever I played against them. It was extremely difficult to do anything to stop them.

 

[Borgnine]

I haven't heard back from him yet. He's getting married in a few months, so I'm too optimistic about my chances of getting a game.

Getting married is not a full time job, and "in a few months" is not the same as "in a few weeks". I'm in the same boat as your friend and I'd love to get a game Good luck on getting one

I also heard similar stories about those daemons. Is it just their stats that are so tough, or some fancy special rules?

Also, a question about the 9th age - are there plans about doing rules for the AoS minis, or will the rooster itself stay the same, with only balancing being done later?

 

[Aranei]

Getting married is not a full time job, and "in a few months" is not the same as "in a few weeks". I'm in the same boat as your friend and I'd love to get a game Good luck on getting one

I also heard similar stories about those daemons. Is it just their stats that are so tough, or some fancy special rules?

Also, a question about the 9th age - are there plans about doing rules for the AoS minis, or will the rooster itself stay the same, with only balancing being done later?

About Daemons 7ed FB Codex - it was just overpowerd. For example, Great Unclean One was a MC with S/T of 6 and 10(!), he had a 5+ ward save and ability to buy armour+regen. Daemonic infantry in Core section had 5+ ward instead of armour. The said infantry had stats comparable to Special units of other armies while being cheaper than Chaos Warriors. Imagine Grave Guards as Core choices (with 5++ insead of armour)! The rest of the book is balanced likewise (i.e. not at all).

Mod Edit: Pointcosts and details removed.

 

[Leithel]

Meh balance in GW hasn't existed since 6th. I remember when they re-released the dark elf book because the weren't well balanced with the other armies and when the rules were just as important as the models. 6th, definitely my favourite edition. 8th deamons were just as bad, I mean take the empire cannon. Chuck it on a chariot, let it move and shoot, give it impact hits, excellent combat skills and crew it with blood letters... oh and give it fire. Then make it 20 more points.... for balance. But the edition was so random that even a weak army could beat a strong, just dwellers their best unit and it's all balanced again.

But that's now what this thread is about. VCs rock in 9th. Just listened to the ohio hammer review of VC, it wasn't bad. They really only covered the good points vs bad points. What they boiled it down to was, Varkolak is super awesome even after the nerf (which it is), the black coach is super fun to take now (which it is), the Screaming Horror is nerfed, still potentially effective but more of a glass cannon than ever. Disappointed they didn't cover more of the units and the vampires, in a little more depth but worth a listen if you're interested.

How's this for a fun list, 3 Varkolaks, 3 Screaming Horrors and Zombies for core. I rekon that would be a great way to lose friends heh.

 

[Irisado]

Getting married is not a full time job, and "in a few months" is not the same as "in a few weeks". I'm in the same boat as your friend and I'd love to get a game Good luck on getting one

Thank you . I wish you all the best with your forthcoming marriage and I hope that it works out for you .

also heard similar stories about those daemons. Is it just their stats that are so tough, or some fancy special rules?

It's a mixture of everything.

As far as playing against them with Vampire Counts was concerned, the big problem was the sheer number of attacks and the speed with which they moved. They're also pretty tough because of all the ward saves, so trying to thin their numbers was a nightmare, and this was just the lesser Daemons. My opponent has a lot of Fleshounds and they were a pain in seventh. Tough, lots of attacks, and very difficult to avoid being charged by. This used to spell doom for the Vampire Counts because massed ranks simply didn't last long enough to win combats.

I am optimistic that Ninth Age will have sorted some of this out, since I'm sure Daemons won't have been so powerful in eighth anyway. Vampire Counts seem more than capable of holding their won in any case as well.

 

[Mad 'At]

@Aranei: Please refrain from posting copyrighted material. Even though 7th is old we are still not allowed to spread details of its content. I've edited your post to address this.

@Borgnine: 9th Age will be updated with both new units and new armies eventually. The team recognizes that this is necessary to keep the game interesting and fresh. What these units and armies will be based upon is hard to tell, but existing miniatures is definitely a good place to start. This could be both new AoS stuff, old FW stuff or things from different manufactures (the Dwarven Holds for example have a MI unit with no basis among GW miniatures). There is always discussions popping up when GW releases new things, from some who want to see rules for it and from some who think it looks too 40k and unfitting for a fantasy world. I do not know what the official stance is.

@Leithel: Thundercocks podcast did a review of the VC book too, and I think they went pretty in-depth. You should check it out.

@Irisado: I have yet to face Daemons in 9th Age, but I do think they are looking pretty strong. Still, nowhere near the insanity that was 8th and 7th edition Daemons.