Legion of Nagash Unit idea ?

[Sweeney Todd]

I think skirmishing would work, for the shooting bit. But a 15 man skirmishing unit could cover 30" +3D6+3 at either end so they unit cap would have to be brought down a bit.

And that too. Clergy are not zombies, you do not swamp the battlefield with them(not even Sigmarite hosts do this - the ones flooding the place are the rabble, not the priests). I suggest a unit cap of 10 max. If that lowers their power, then so be it. The Legion has too many bound spells and such going around anyway.

 

[Bishop]

I was thinking of skirmishing before I even started looking at the Shrouding rule. Yes, it would be much simpler to make them Skirmishers and then just say that Shrouding gives them an additional -1 to be hit.

My concern with that, was as pointed out already, the size of the unit could create a pretty big screen! Not sure if anyone would really screen with a unit that's 20ish points a model... but 15 models could be a pretty big screen.

So, my suggested revision is then:

Necrophyte

20 points per model

M 4 / WS 2 / BS 0 / S 3 / T 3 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / Ld 8

unit size: 5-10

weapons/armor: hand weapon

special rules:
nagashi
thrall magic
skirmisher
shrouded

Thrall Magic
Insert Fluff
Roll on the following table at the start of every Legion turn:
1-5 Necrophytes still alive: 1D6+1
6-10 Necrophytes still alive: 2D6+2

The total is the range from the Necrophyte unit in which any Undeads unit may march move for that turn only. Only units that are in this range at the start of the Legion turn may march as per the BRB.

In addition any Undead unit that is within this range and suffer from crumbling at any point until the start of the next Legion phase (check distance at the time when the crumbling would occur), they suffer one less wound than normal.

Shrouded
The Necrophytes of Nagash are not warriors, and only take to the battlefield to further their training in necromantic lore. As such they shroud themselves in the darkest of shadows and avoid the enemy at all cost
The Necrophytes may not willingly charge the enemy. Any enemy attempting to shoot or cast at the Necrophytes suffer -1 to hit or -1 casting roll.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Looks pretty good to me.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

Yeah there looking good, I think they shouldn't be able to use thrall magic if they're fleeing.

 

[Sweeney Todd]

Thirded. With the caveat suggested by CRD, of course.

 

[Dreadgrass]

The above looks good, but as an alternate option, what do you think of having a free "champion" upgrade that acts as the focus of the unit, so the range is measured from 1 model instead of along a line? Just a thought... alternately, you could pick 1 model in the unit to act as the "focus" for that turn, representing the unit channelling its powers through the 1 member?

Another thought, along a seperate track, how about allowing a Mortuary Priest to join the unit, if he does he acts as the focus (if the above is accepted) and either increases the range of the Thrall magic or maybe gets a bonus to his casting abilities? sort of acts like a Dwarf Engineer, bolstering the units abilities... Sort of represents them being his apprentices/ disciples...

 

[Bishop]

Yep, I'd be okay with the champion/focus idea... though we might need to up the range a bit in that case (it is random afterall), and not by much.

If you rolled a 2" range that's virtually useless from the centre of the unit... So, how about d6+3 and 2d6+3 instead?

And I agree that Thrall Magic should be unusable when fleeing.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I think the champion focused idea is really good, it would stop any conga lines.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yep, I'd be okay with the champion/focus idea... though we might need to up the range a bit in that case (it is random afterall), and not by much.

If you rolled a 2" range that's virtually useless from the centre of the unit... So, how about d6+3 and 2d6+3 instead?

And I agree that Thrall Magic should be unusable when fleeing.

This sounds ok with me. I don't think we should bother with the MP - as you said before Deadgrass, we perhaps need to try and not overcomplicate things.

 

[Bishop]

No, I wouldn't add a MP to the unit either.

I'd just give the unit a "free" champion w/Ld 8, WS 3 and 2 atks, and drop the units Ld down to 7. It's not like its a combat unit anyways, it can't declare charges, they have no armour... it's just to avoid the conga line issue!

 

[Dreadgrass]

Hmm... sounding good, how about D3 range per, say 3 models? so 6 models'll be 2-6", 9 models 3-9" etc. They don't need a huge range as the yprobably won't need to be 0-1...

Loving this idea, Im thinking though it changes the army dynamics quite a bit, they'd play more like VC's then TK's, with potential march moves and movement spells....

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I prefer to stick with Bishops idea rather than add more complications. The dynamics may change a bit, but that is something that willl be checked out during playtesting.

One thing - I think this unit should 0-1 or maybe 0-1 per 2000 pts. There should not be loads of them swarming the field, and it will limit people creating too many marching bubbles.

 

[Bishop]

I'm okay with 0-1 per 2k...

 

[Dreadgrass]

0-1 with the current setup makes a lot of sense to me, it also keeps the Zenith Lord/ Prince's marching ability as being worthwhile...

Just noticed the -1 to cast aspect of Shrouding, that's kinda nasty, did we want to make them that well protected against magic? I know everything is fair with the right points tag but they're quite potent without... maybe MR 1 might fill the same roll?

 

[Sweeney Todd]

0-1 with the current setup makes a lot of sense to me, it also keeps the Zenith Lord/ Prince's marching ability as being worthwhile...

Just noticed the -1 to cast aspect of Shrouding, that's kinda nasty, did we want to make them that well protected against magic? I know everything is fair with the right points tag but they're quite potent without... maybe MR 1 might fill the same roll?

I think you underestimate -1 to cast. It only works if the spell being cast is targeted at them. And -1 is still not that bad.

Unless I understood it wrong, and it's -1 to all enemy spellcasting, then it's an issue.

 

[Bishop]

No, it's written as -1 to spells cast at the Necrophytes. I put that in there since the original idea was to protect them against shooting, magic and CC.

Personally, I think -1 to cast is way less powerful then MR(1).

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I agree the -1 to cast in the Necrophytes is a lot less powerful. You want to draw up the final rules Bishop?

 

[Bishop]

Sure.. copypasta comin' up

Final Draft:

Necrophytes

20 points per model (yes, even the Champion)

Necrophyte.................M 4 / WS 2 / BS 0 / S 3 / T 3 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / Ld 7
Necrophyte Champion..M 4 / WS 3 / BS 0 / S 3 / T 3 / W 1 / I 2 / A 1 / Ld 8

Unit size: 1 Necrophyte Champion plus 4-9 Necrophytes

Unit restrictions: 0-1 unit per 2,000 points

Weapons: Hand Weapon

Armour: None

Special rules:
Skirmisher
Nagashi
Thrall magic
Shrouded

Thrall Magic
Insert Fluff
Roll on the following table at the start of every Legion turn:
1-5 Necrophytes still alive: 1D6+1
6-10 Necrophytes still alive: 2D6+2

The total is the range from the Necrophyte Champion in which any Undeads unit may march move for that turn only. Only units that are in this range at the start of the Legion turn may march as per the BRB.

In addition any Undead unit that is within this range and suffer from crumbling at any point until the start of the next Legion phase (check distance at the time when the crumbling would occur), they suffer one less wound than normal.

The benefits described in Thrall Magic are not usable while the Necrophytes are fleeing.

Shrouded
The Necrophytes of Nagash are not warriors, and only take to the battlefield to further their training in necromantic lore. As such they shroud themselves in the darkest of shadows and avoid the enemy at all cost
The Necrophytes may not willingly charge the enemy. Any enemy attempting to shoot or cast at the Necrophytes suffer -1 to hit or -1 casting roll.


Someone needs to write the fluff for Thrall Magic though...

Everyone have a read over that please to make sure I didn't miss anything.

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

The rules look good.

The only thing is, the Necrophyte Champion needs a cool name, but i can't think of any at the min.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

Yep looks great. Just need the champs name and thrall magic fluff and I think it is good to go to vote.

 

[Dreadgrass]

Looking great! Just like to suggest we add a line to save nitpicking...

Shrouded
The Necrophytes of Nagash are not warriors, and only take to the battlefield to further their training in necromantic lore. As such they shroud themselves in the darkest of shadows and avoid the enemy at all cost
The Necrophytes may not willingly charge the enemy. Any enemy attempting to shoot or cast at the Necrophytes suffer -1 to hit or -1 casting roll. This is in addition to the -1 to hit with shooting granted by being skirmishers

 

[Bishop]

Yeah, it should go without saying.... but to avoid arguments it could be added in... I'd do slight reword though.

This is in addition to the modifiers granted to skirmishers.

Not sure its necessary though. Shrouded is listed as a seperate rule, and modifiers in Fantasy are generally cumilative...

 

[Evanm7]

How about something like "Blood Mage" or "Necrophyte Wraith"?

 

[Capt Rubber Ducky]

I like the sound of "Blood mage"

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

I don't, it sounds too vampirish. Perhaps something simple like Grand / High Necrophyte.