Gatti said:
Plus, as you say the trinkets need to work, but if they do its hard for skaven to lose the game. That is part of my point. I don't like armies that are so randomly powerful that you may as well flip a coin before the game starts so we can skip it and go grab a beer.
I think this is the problem with Skaven too. They have a plethora of I WIN-buttons which almost certainly win you the game if they activate properly. If they don't activate, then the Skaven player has a problem. HOWEVER: the Skaven have so many of these buttons that they can continuously press them until one goes off correctly and they win. During this time, they have to make sure to survive, but that's the easiest thing to do for them, just using Slaves all the time to hold you up indefinitely (Really, their Ld10 Steadfast re-rollable thing is insane and clearly not what they intended (I speak for myself) as I don't think they wanted lowly sewer rats to be the bravest and most stalwart race in the game). That's not to say they can't lose of course, but it is quite easy to make them over-the-top.
On to the more interesting book problem:
I think the book that needs an update most is the Wood Elves. Now that's not just because I play them (OK, maybe :redface: ) but they really just need an update. The thing is, that they don't need new models (maybe some new Treekin and new units, but the Elves and Dryads look awesome), but they need a rules fix. They are still extremely viable as I have found, and there are several builds that work well, and even themed armies do alright (I've tried all Elves for example, and won most of my games).
The problem is just that there are so many units which aren't really usable. The cavalry are great for avoidance games and not-losing but won't win you much. The Wardancers are too expensive and fragile. The Treekin may be the best Monstrous Infantry in the game for their stats, but they cost a lot and have a hard counter in Flaming Attacks which every army now brings. Eternal Guard just aren't worth it except if you go the "Deathstar" route (I'm reluctant to say this word with WE) but even then they aren't great (S3, T3). Also the Warhawk Riders for example, so many things wrong with them (similar to the Glade Riders), the Waywatchers and Wizards are too expensive, and I could go on...
That's not to say there aren't good units though. The Glade Guard en masse are incredibly powerful for example, and the reason why most people think 8th edition has shafted Wood Elves is because they want to play with the 8th edition boys and bring hordes of ranked infantry. Wood Elves just can't do this, plain and simple. They can, however, excell at guerilla warfare and shooting battles (except vs Warmachines, again, that needs a fix).
So overall, the Wood Elves just need many of their units to become viable again (and maybe some new units too) so that the playstyle diversity can change up a bit.
Sorry for the ramble there. xD
After Wood Elves, I'd say GW needs to update Lizardmen and Dark Elves, simply because their magic system is overpowered for a race that isn't fully reliant on it (unlike Tomb Kings, for example) and their magic items are crazy. Skaven have to be fixed in this magic items department too (and the Ld issue). But, somewhere in between or maybe after, I feel they should release the Bretonnian and Dwarf army books (in that order) since they really deserve a new book after all these years (I know the feeling as a long time TK player), and could use some playstyle diversity badly.
After thinking about it though, maybe they should do LM and DE first (breaking the game), then WE, Brets and Dwarfs (for more diversity) and lastly Skaven (breaking the game too, but not as drastically maybe?).
EDIT: By the way, the currently rumoured order of releases is as follows: HE, LM, DE, Dwarfs, WHFB 9th Edition, WE. I don't know if there's a sign of Brets/Skaven yet... Of course, this is probably just speculated too. At least I hope WE will get some rules adapted to 9th Edition if they do get released after it.
Sorry for the wall of text by the way, I hope its lisible :rolleyes: