AoS - 3rd AoS News Thread

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first draft try at a nighthaunt list:

Reikenor
  • Cairn Wraith
  • 20 grimghasts
  • 4 dreadblades
Awlrach - general
  • Cairn Wraith
  • 20 Grimghasts
  • 20 Bladegheists (special seasonal retinue)
Spirit Guardian (ruler of the spectral hosts, lightshard of the harvest moon)
  • 3 spirit hosts
lores: default faction options
formation: either hunters or stalkers. Stalkers is probably best (as usual), but with 5 heroes to work with hunters also looks really good.
2000 points even, if I added it all right

3 drops, which hurts, but nighthaunt heroes are so good, and their units in general so cheap, that it's hard to cram everything into two. But while you're probably giving the choice of who goes first to your opponent, that's a very hard choice. He either goes second, and lets you choke the board with ghosts and probably alpha rush something with Awlrach & his 20 bladegheists, or he can go first, which will likely put you in charge range with your entire army and threaten a decisive double turn of charging with aura of dread later in the match.

3 infantry units with 20 models to threaten shriek, including 2 big beaty blocks of 20 grimchasts with cairn wraith, 3 cavalry/war machine units to threaten stun, 5 heroes to petrify with. Spirit Guardian has a bodyguard of spirit hosts, tempting to throw him in early for his combat buff, but I'd try to keep him safely out of combat playing spell support until he's had a chance to trigger ruler of the spectral hosts, probably to call back 10 bladegheists. Speaking of, Awlrach teleports and charges with them doing as much early damage and disruption as possible, hopefully with +1 to charge from a first turn terminexus courtesy of reikenor. Like the gos, reikenor probably hangs around behind the grimghasts, charging in with or shortly after them, but can range ahead with the dreadblades screening for him if that's a better option in a given game than just playing teleportation shenanigans with them.

Oh, also the list is pretty much all my favorite models in the range, the only problem being that the cairn wraith is kind of bad, and I'd look for alternative model options. Maybe fancify a couple spare grimchasts left over from the weird small unit in the 2e box? Or buy a couple spares of the cool, pointing executioner models and weapon swap their axes for scythes? If you're not playing in a GW store or official event then there's no end of 3rd party options.
I really like your list and I will be running something similar. Only big change in what Im considering is to cut a Cairn Wraith and the Spirit Hosts to bring 10 Craventhrone Guard and 4 Myrmourn Banshees. Something like:

Subfaction: Death Stalkers

Awlrach the Drowner (160)
- 1 x Cairn Wraith (130)
- 20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)
- 20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Guardian of Souls (140)
[General]
[Cloaked in Shadow]
[Lightshard Lantern]
- 20 x Bladegheist Revenants (300)
- 4 x Myrmourn Banshees (120)

Reikenor the Grimhailer (210)
- 2 x Dreadblade Harrows (160)
- 10 x Craventhrone Guard (200)

Lore of the Underworlds
Morbid Conjuration

1980/2000pts
 
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List looks good to me. I'm still comitted to soulblight early for painted models reasons, but nighthaunt is starting to tempt me away from OBR for which undead army to pivot to afterwards.

....

In other news: regiments of renown, armies of renown, and legends are up for download, hidden within the warcom article about the new app:


I've only looked at the undead stuff in the regiments of renown yet...

regiments of renown don't have access to your faction's special rules - and that includes spell and manifestation lores. Arkhan, for instance, if brought in via the liche's hand, won't be able to cast your endless spells. In exchange each regiment gets its own smaller set of rules, which will often include an extra spell if the regiment includes a spellcaster, sometimes a spell that can be re-cast by the same caster. They went out of their way to ensure that multicasters have at least something to use all their casts on, but some of them are stuck with only a single option for each cast (ie, double casters who get to cast their warscroll spell, and then one extra spell that isn't recastable, and thats it). Keep in mind that enemy casters can potentially cast on your turn, so leaving at least one cast in your army open for unbinding will often be a good call.

In general regiments of renown are very inflexible and look a bit weaker than the same units in their own armies due to the lack of faction rules - especially in cases like Katakros and Ushoran where their warscroll rules specifically interact with faction rules they don't have access to in a regiment of renown - though thankfully the typical 6+ Death ward is on the warscrolls now so they'll keep that at least. In exchange, they're generally cheaper than taking the same units in their own factions.


And honestly? Some of the Death ones seem pretty good, imo. In particular:

Mannfred - he comes with 10 grave guard and 2x3 fell bats, and once per each of your hero phases one of those units not in combat can lift and redeploy wholly outside of 6. Yes, 6", an even closer teleport than Awlrach, AND the teleported unit gets +1 attack. That measly 10 grave guard gets an easy short range teleport charge WITH +1 attack. If mannfred can run himself up and charge in with them then he can generate another +1 attack if he kills anything. Mannfred even gives himself first strike on the charge on a 3+, so if that triggers then he can swing and then the grave guard can swing with *40 attacks* with crit mortals all attacking before the enemy unit you charged. The formation looks /really/ good, though it does set you back 700 points.

Neferata - she brings five black knights (nice) and 2x10 skeletons (meh), she gets soulpike as a second spell to cast, can cancel out ward saves against a chosen enemy unit for attacks made by her and her retinue each turn (unit has to be within 12" of her at the start of the turn), and once per game on a 2+ she cuts an enemy units control score by a whopping -10 (on a 6 she just cuts it to 1). On top of her great warscroll, this also looks like an excellent regiment choice for 760, if not quite as good as mannfreds (while mysteriously costing more points).

Katakros - a tough wall of bone that debuffs command score of an enemy unit in combat by a hefty 2d6 every turn. Expensive for what it does, but it looks playable.

Arkhan - the archbishop of bones plus two units of morghasts - comes with a recastable (but not on the same target) 5+ hoardbreaker, which combined with his curse of years could have you quickly thinning out some of the 40 model chaff hoards that I expect to be pretty common this edition. He's also brings a strong anti-magic game, with 3 unbinds, +1 to banishment rolls, at a 4+ spell ignore for himself and his morghasts - as long as they stay in range. I don't think this one's on par with the soulblight mortarch regiments, but it again looks very playable to me, a solid option for those who miss the old Legion of Sacrament from 2e, or even some of the 1e lore that has Arkhan leading armies of ghouls.


Some of the others look decent too. Olynder gets a re-castable teleport and can stop a unit from using command abilities, and the marrowscroll herald regiment puts a decent number of ghoulish bodies on the table and gives them retreat & charge.

So yeah, some nice options here, even with the limited rules space made available to regiments of renown.
 
Scions of NuLahmia is our only army of renown so far, and it looks....

well, not good, but interesting maybe. Only allows sekhar, coven thrones, bloodseeker palanquins, vampire lords, dire wolves, and fell bats. But vampire lords can be taken as part of another hero's (even another vampire lord's) battalion, seemingly without limit. Sadly no blood knights or VLoZD, and no proper units apart from beasts, which makes capturing objectives extremely difficult. The army gets to revive half a fell bat or dire wolf unit each turn at no cost, and choice of one of four abilities that buff some aspect of one of your units for the turn, with a permanent buff for the rest of the game if they achieve something. EG +1 to cast, with +1 to wizard level for the rest of the game if they cast something that turn, or +5 control score for the turn, with that bonus becoming permanent if they capture an objective, etc. Interesting stuff, but very limited selection of heroes to apply it to, and again you can only use one of them per turn. Also a spell lore, with the unlimited spell adding restoring a slain model to a bat or wolf unit, with no limit on targeting the same unit multiple times if you have multiple heroes to cast it with.

Example list

Sekhar (general)
  • Vampire Lord (trait & relic)
  • 20 dire wolves
Coven Throne
  • Vampire Lord
  • 3 fell bats
  • 10 dire wolves
Bloodseeker Palanquin
  • Vampire Lord
  • 3 fell bats
  • 10 dire wolves
.....

Overall I just can't see this army working on the tabletop. It's missing too many of the core units that make Soulblight function. I feel like if you wanted a vampire-heavy army you'd just be way better off taking a regular Soulblight army with the vampire-buffing battle formation and retaining access to blood knights at the very least, and a NuLahmia themed army in particular imo really wants Neferata to lead it - and deathrattle stuff for basic troopers. This list kind of forces you to spam fell bats and dire wolves to fill out your numbers, and that feels much more like a Vyrkos or even Legion of Night thing rather than a NuLahmia thing. That said it is kind of cool to be able to field multiple vampire lords as part of other detachments. Gives you something to do with the now legend-locked crimson court.
 
The death stuff in the legends pile is almost all underworlds stuff. And all the underworlds units look fun and cool and a lot less hasslesome than many of their rules have been in the past? And they've been given, like, really aggressively good points values too? For all I've been saying Cursed City stuff should have been kicked to legends, I *really* wish most of these units were just part of the main game. I'd love to run them, and while I've only read the death units, if the underworld units for the other factions are similarly neat I would have loved to play against them. Can we convince indie tournaments to start allowing the underworlds units, in order to set a precedent that might take root in the community generally?

Apart from underworlds, the only undead legend thing in the pdf is the generic ghoul courtier (no old FW mournghul, no updated version of previous undead legends - not that they were expected, but it woulda been nice), and now that there are more specific and cool ghoul courtiers all I can say is good riddence. Hopefully the horror and flayer courtiers, and the generic ghoul king on foot, all join it in the rubbish bin when FEC get their eventual 4e book, with the former two replaced by new heroes with actual bespoke models. The generic king doesn't need a replacement with the range of abhorrant foot heroes that already exist, particularly the archregent which is effectively already the same thing in terms of model and lore.
 
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Not undead related but has anyone seen Gotrek’s new warscroll yet? I’ve had very bad experiences against him in previous editions and have tried to find it but can’t.
 
gotrek's available only via regiment of renown of just himself, and his warscroll is in the ror document. It's strong (8 health, 3+ ward, double fight 8 attacks 2+ 2+ 2 3 crit mortal), but not as strong as he used to be (no protection from instant death, etc). cheaper than he used to be too, though, iirc (360 points).

i dont know why they did it this way, instead of the nagash/kragnos design of just including him in both dwarf factions.
 
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gotrek's available only via regiment of renown of just himself, and his warscroll is in the ror document. It's strong (8 health, 3+ ward, double fight 8 attacks 2+ 2+ 2 3 crit mortal), but not as strong as he used to be (no protection from instant death, etc). cheaper than he used to be too, though, iirc (360 points).

i dont know why they did it this way, instead of the nagash/kragnos design of just including him in both dwarf factions.
I’m glad he’s been toned down. Was an absolute nightmare to deal with in previous editions, even the ignore tactic only worked so much as he’d get to you eventually.
 
Ok, so I fished up the 3e warscroll to refresh myself and the biggest change is that he no longer reduces incoming damage from each attack or spell to 1, and he's no longer immune to instant death, so it's a lot easier to kill him even if he's still pretty tough with 8 wounds and a 3+ ward.

He also only has 5+ armor instead of 4+, not a huge change.

He gained two attacks, and they hit and wound on 2+ instead of 3+, but he no longer re-rolls hits and wounds.

With crit mortal his crits deal 3 mortal damage where they used to do d6, technically a slight reduction in the average but imo the reliability more than makes up for it.

still has to set up normally & can't deep strike or teleport. Still slow as dirt.

In some ways, he's honestly better. Down like 160 points and pretty much just as strong offensively as he used to be. On average he'll clear the better part of 40 zombies in a single combat phase entirely by himself, and take only a couple wounds off their explosions as they die. On average he'll very nearly one shot nagash in a single combat round, while Nagash only half-kills gotrek in return. But that's all on base combat stats, not factoring in access to spells, commands, faction traits, and so on, which all favor Nagash more since the rattlebone prince is actually part of the factions that can take him and gotrek is not, which also means Nagash gets to take more units as part of his battalion, where gotrek is always an extra drop all is own. Of course, Nagash costs significantly more than twice the price of Gotrek....

I'm not sure why I'm hyperfocused on this comparison specifically.


anyway, yeah, Gotrek is MUCH cheaper now, and just as killy as he used to be - if not killier. But he's also easier to bring down, and despite the cheaper points cost I think the separate battalion may make him harder to fit into effective lists than before.
 
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Initial thoughts for 2k SBG
Bacchanal of Blood
Spell Lore: Undeath
Manifestation - Morbid Conjuration

Prince Vhordrai (General)
Blood Knights - reinforced
Blood Knights
Fell Bats

Cado Ezechiar
Deathrattle Skeletons - Reinforced
Deathrattle Skeletons - Reinforced
Vargheists

2k exactly, first regiment hero hammers around, second stands on objectives. Cado seems like solid utility and the bats and vargs can scurry around to harass ranged units etc. Additionally I own almost all of this, just need to pick up Cado and work on some skellies
 

Saga of dice discussing the very earliest 4e event results.

Too early to draw too many conclusions, the faction packs are new, in many cases people maybe haven't figured out what's good yet, or if they have they don't have the new hotness painted yet, etc. But there are some clear early themes:

manifestations, ~especially~ morbid conjurations, seem op, and dramatically increase the value of access to good wizards, including multicasters, casting bonuses, and casters that can be included in other heroes' battalions. Who would have thought that free, infinitely re-summonable units would be strong? But yeah, these don't cost points, so I have no idea how they'll balance them. Accross the board nerfs to the warscrolls? Limit multicast wizards and priests to only summoning one per turn? Limit armies as a whole to only summoning one per turn? Limit each individual manifestation to only be summoned once per game? Probably nothing that drastic, at least in a first pass, but /some/ kind of nerf is likely on the way.

Cavalry in general seems too strong relative to infantry. Cavalry units across the board got a lot better in 4e - many of them gaining an extra wound and damage on the charge. Some units even have control 2, making them as efficient as equivalent infantry units at objective control. Almost all cavalry units are more durable point for point, fight at least as hard on the charge, and are twice as fast or faster, with the new rules strongly rewarding speed and maneuverability. I'm not sure what the fix will look like here. They could just mess with points values - increasing cavalry or decreasing infantry accross the board. Or they might actually edit warscrolls, reducing dropping some of the extra wounds they handed out in the faction packs. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see outlier cav units like hexwraiths with control 2 reduced to control 1 so that infantry have at least ~some~ area of expertise where cavalry aren't just inherently superior.

Finally, and I know none of us here want to hear this, Nighthaunt is too strong. Yes its still early days and people are still figuring out other factions where as the ABCs of nighthaunt are obvious at first glance which is certainly giving them a head start that other factions will gain ground on as their players work them out, but even so the faction is too strong. In 2e and 3e they were shackled, so to speak, by 1 inch combat ranges on 32mm bases for their best units and in 3e especially ethereal was more of a hindrance than a help due to how common save stacking was, and how much both the devs and players in general leaned on mortal wounds to get around it. The new nighthaunt rules and points saw the faction overall get a big boost to compensate for their previously poor performance at the same time as the core rule interactions holding them back were all removed like Rock Lee dropping his training weights.

The result is, in early figures at least, a near 70% win rate. That's just too much to attribute to people not knowing how to play against them yet.

Which in turn has people talking about early nerfs. There are already rumors of an early balance patch - probably in august, and it's probably going to hit Nighthaunt pretty hard. Especially since the problem with the faction isn't just one or two units, it's basically everything apart from maybe chainrasps & glaivewraiths. So near accross the board points hikes would not be surprising.

In terms of actual rules errata, I also wouldn't be surprised to see a nerf to the Death Stalkers battle formation. Run & Charge AND Retreat & Charge isn't just more than any other nighthaunt battle formation does, it's more than pretty much any other battle formation in the game does. Even in a faction that can already charge in combat, that's still doing twice as much it probably should be doing, and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see it erratad to being just one or the other bonus instead of both at the same time.

So those are the changes I would suggest bracing for if you're looking at playing nighthaunt in 4e, +20ish points to most of your units and half of death stalkers getting chopped off. Maybe an additional hit to hexwraiths and harrows as part of a general nerf to cavalry. And if that's all we see then we didn't exactly dodge a bullet, but at least it maybe didn't hit any vital organs.

....

As for the other undead factions...

Soulblight Gravelords are also running a bit high, though that may just be their strong ability to take advantage of manifestations (via multicasters and vyrkos sub-hero casters) and access to multiple good cavalry units, and if we see general nerfs to cavalry and manifestations then GW might not see a need to hit the faction any harder, as they're not necessarily running so high that you couldn't attribute it to people still gettitng used to the new system. Dire wolves might see a bit of a points hike - yes as beasts they don't have quite all the same bonuses that cavalry are enjoying, but they are fast chaff in a ruleset that favors being fast, and they're especially competent at limiting the maneuverability of your opponents units & blocking off huge sections of the board. I think regular skeleton warriors are kind of bad right now, but they probably aren't bad enough in and of themselves within a faction that's doing pretty well overall for the devs to notice & do anything about them this soon.

OBR are currently sitting pretty at almost exactly 50% with their above average warscrolls and faction rules held in check by generally high points values.

1721820451132.png


OBR might arguably have some internal balance issues in terms of immortis vs. stalkers or morteks vs. kavalos or the like, but other than kavalos maybe getting caught in a general nerf to cavalry I don't think there's anything so eggregious that the devs would need to intervene this early.

In contrast to the other undead factions, FEC are running a bit low early on. But that probably is attributable to people still getting a hang of the rules and the faction. FEC are in general the most fragile of the undead armies, without OBR's strong saves, NH's ethereal, or SG's mix of cheap expendible chaff and high durability elites. As a result FEC punishes players harder than other undead factions for making the sorts of mistakes that are inevitable when adjusting to a new ruleset. They do have access to a lot of recursion, at least in theory, but FEC players have to jump through a fair few hurdles to activate it and it comes at the cost of feeding frenzy, so there's a lot of player skill required to optimize the process of gaining and spending noble deed points, balancing abhorrants vs. courtiers in list constrction, etc. So yeah, I think FEC as a faction are maybe just taking a bit longer for players to wrap their heads around than OBR, Soulblight, or (especially) Nighthaunt.

That said, FEC also don't take as much advantage of the generally op stuff in 4e as other undead do. They have casters for manifestations, but they aren't quite as efficient in terms of number of casts or casting bonuses, and the fact that they need courtiers for recursion means you probably can't just span casters only for your heroes. FEC also don't really have any regular cavalry, just the morbhegs. Which are good, but 'monstrous' cavarly units aren't really the problem that 'normal' cavalry are. In particular they lack the control score needed to /also/ challenge infantry on contesting objectives, plus they're 3 wounds less than a typical cavalry unit, so they actually have ~some~ weaknesses. If the cavalry and caster nails get hammered down then FEC are likely to see a slight boost out of it, at least relatively speaking, even without any buffs to FEC specifically.
 
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A bit more on the current state of obr.

The balance isn't just a matter of 'strong scrolls but at a premium'. It's also a matter of them being very good at duking it out in a scrum in the middle of the board, but not so good at scoring objectives and battle tactics due to a relative lack of speed. Well, lack of speed /and/ unit count, but the latter is a matter of the previously mentioned points premium. It's an interesting dynamic of trying to crush your opponent in a fight before they can rack up too many points by doing random backflips in table corners you can't reach.

In this regard, the now finally releasing OBR warcry warband may actually see their results tick up a bit. Between the relatively low points cost for an obr unit, slightly above averate speed (lower than deathriders, but higher than morteks), and deep strike, the warcry group could end up meaninfully shoring up the faction's otherwise currently lacking objective & battle tactic scoring abilities.
 
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Had my first game of the edition last Saturday, I was a lot more impressed with how everything flows then I thought I would be list was as follows:

Vhordrai
Cado
Necromancer
Not Krell
10 blood knights
20 grave guard
20 skeletons
10 skeletons
Morbid conjuration endless spells

I managed to get the win although it was a deflated victory, my dice rolling had been absolutely terrible most of the game when making attacks. Saves and everything else seemed pretty normal but my attack rolls were so bad.

Speaking more generally the endless spells certainly provided distractions for my opponent but again did nowhere near the damage I’ve seen them do in battle reports online. Off of this game I’m happy they aren’t a points cost to take them.
The honour guard rules are really useful and definitely helped my blood knights who along with Vhordrai sucked in 3/4 of my opponents army for a melee that lasted several turns although Vhordrai died in the end.
I wouldn’t change anything about Vhordrai just very unlucky with my roles with him, blood knights I still feel are a little underwhelming with their basic profile.
Cado I found to be exceptionally useful and may have been playing it wrong but with his own rule and bachenal of blood +2 to cast was very helpful, changing up between the other two abilities also helped me capture and keep an enemy objective too.
Can’t really speak for the grave guard and wight king as they were on the far side of the battlefield and didn’t see action.
 
Updated Faction Packs are available on warcom. Frustratingly, there is no pdf with just a list of the errata, though for whatever reason they did list the changes separately in an update to the AoS app. So long as the app is accurate, the changes for undead are:

Nighthaunt: Hexwraith control score changed from 2 to 1. A significant nerf, but control 2 on hexwraiths always felt like a mistake or typo rather than the intended value when other regular cavalry are all control 1.

FEC: cleaned up wording on Muster Guard and Cruel Taskmaster. I don't think the actual affects have changed, just clearer wording, but I could be wrong.

Soulblight: cleaned up formatting and wording of Vyrkos Blood-born's "Cling to the Shadows" and Kritza's "Scurrying Retreat." Again, afaict no meaningful mechanical change.

OBR: Cleaned up wording on Archai's "Ebon-Wrought Armour" and Immortis' "Soulbound Protectors". Also added the Fly keyword to Archai and Harbingers - I have to admit that I hadn't noticed they were lacking it before.

There were also changes to a few manifestations, but again mostly just cleaning up wording, not balance changes, the movement abilities of some of the manifestations being restricted such that they cannot end in combat range of an enemy unit is significant in itself, but it still feels like an oversight in the previous rules wording not a balance change in response to the previous rules being as intended but too strong.

......

Overall, this looks to be a round of cleanup and copy-editing, not the anticipated early balance patch. Nerfs to manifestations and nighthaunts are probably still incoming.
 
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I know there’s concerns but it does seem a bit too early to be weilding the nerf stick. Probably going to change up some nighthaunt lists though with that change on hexwraiths.
Im interested to see the first battletomes of this edition, it will be nice to know if things will be expanded upon in the full time or kept like they currently.
 
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I don't even really consider it a nerf. Like, it was a change that made them worse, so technically sure, but to me 'nerf' implies a change made for balance reasons, like the previous version was as intended, but proved to be too strong so the devs opted to change it. In contrast, when comparing to other cavalry units in the game, control 2 hexwraiths always felt like a mistake, like that was never the intended value in the first place. Changing to control 1 doesn't feel like a balance adjustment, it feels like a typo correction, and to me that's just not what 'nerf' means.

The same as giving morghasts 'fly'. Technically it's errata that makes them stronger, but to me the change is an error correction, not a 'buff'.
 
there's a battletome preview article up on warcom.


I expected as much already, but at least coming out of the gate in 4e the battletome rules are going to look very much like the index rules. ie, only 3 spells/prayers per lore, similar amount/complexity of faction traits, etc. the formatting of warscrolls in the book also looks just terrible - two separate units on thin verticle panels that look like they were screencapped from the app stuck next to each other with so, so much white space. Absolutely apalling presentation. Also no points at all, just qr code link to the webside since the points are constantly updated and inevitably instantly out of date anyway.

Overall I'm not super excited by it. The preview definitely makes battletomes look like a low effort afterthought in 4e, but GW marketing has been a bit spotty of late, so it might just not be a very good showing? That they couldn't be bothered to even reformat warscrolls for a print layout isn't a great sign though. Hopefully artwork & lore sections make up for it - that's the main reason to care about battletomes anyway since wahapedia or the app are a much way to access rules.

Regardless, I'm hoping we see a big shift in how battletomes are designed part way through this edition.
 
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Seems like a waste of money to me.
Also not having points except online seems sketchy. Things online don't last forever.
But I do like the idea of the softcover smaller books.
 
Updated Faction Packs are available on warcom. Frustratingly, there is no pdf with just a list of the errata, though for whatever reason they did list the changes separately in an update to the AoS app. So long as the app is accurate, the changes for undead are:

Nighthaunt: Hexwraith control score changed from 2 to 1. A significant nerf, but control 2 on hexwraiths always felt like a mistake or typo rather than the intended value when other regular cavalry are all control 1.

expected, but they are still a top tier unit
 
Oh, yeah, absolutely, hexwraiths are still amazing, and nighthaunt in general are still wildly op. since the initial round of results their event win rate has come down a little, dropping from like 70% down to like 65%, but it's still way too high and we should absolutely still be braced for a fairly significant nerf once the first actual balance patch shows up.

Right now I'm expecting significant points increases faction-wide, the one subfaction being changed to just run and charge or just retreat and charge but not both, and harrows teleport being changed to just your movement phase. If that's all that happens then I'd consider nighthaunt lucky, and they might honestly still be too strong, depending on how aggressive the points hikes are.
 
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Right now I'm expecting significant points increases faction-wide, the one subfaction being changed to just run and charge or just retreat and charge but not both, and harrows teleport being changed to just your movement phase. If that's all that happens then I'd consider nighthaunt lucky, and they might honestly still be too strong, depending on how aggressive the points hikes are.

yep, you're on point. Things to be expected:

- points increases
- nerf to that specific subfaction ability
- nerf to some warscrolls

what i fear most is an excess in the opposite direction, 'cause too often GW jumps to different extreme sides, as if people don't communicate (the typical "X is too strong, so we increase its points AND at the same time we nerf its abilities, so now it's absurdly overpriced ")
 
yep, you're on point. Things to be expected:

- points increases
- nerf to that specific subfaction ability
- nerf to some warscrolls

what i fear most is an excess in the opposite direction, 'cause too often GW jumps to different extreme sides, as if people don't communicate (the typical "X is too strong, so we increase its points AND at the same time we nerf its abilities, so now it's absurdly overpriced ")
I agree with the things to expect. However, I will actually say that GW has been really on point (the last couple of years) with only introducing slight nerfs and buffs at a time and gathering data on the impact before the next balance update.
 

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