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GDD

Grave Guard
Jul 30, 2014
200
There better be an advanced version coming, or I am not expecting to buy anything from GW for a while...

I noticed that "you may use as many models as you wish" too. I am assuming we just haven't seen all the rules. How would you play any fair games without points/restrictions...
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,252
I don't know, but they've tried that bologna before. Remember Inquisitor?

EDIT: I see rules for how much scenery to place, but not rules for what terrain actually does, which inclines me to think there may not be generic terrain rules, only battlescrolls for specific terrain kits (ie, no 'forest' rules, but rules for 'bloodskull orchard' or 'skullmoon grove', etc).
 
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U

ulrik

Guest
They didn't have points in 3rd edition of the Warhammer game. or well, they had points, but olnly in the advanced section of the rules. the game back then was purely scenario driven, like the one included in the rulebook itself, featuring some elves surrounded by orcs and goblins. no points values of any kind used.

also, battle reports in white dwarf have been quite "liberal" with points values and army compositions over the years, havent they? And I think most of them have been quite enjoyable.

there was a swedish viking game called svarta korpen (the black crow) where players were instructed to come up with scenarios, what models to use, and how strong they were, beforehand. If , and this was very well written in the ruleset, the players couldnt agree on these things, then they shouldnt play this game. it is after all a game all players should enjoy, and play for the fun of it and for creating a story, not to win.

so. no point values are possible. but of course it really demands all players to be fair, to play for the fun of it and for the telling of stories. and probably a third party game master of some kind is needed, to make up the victory conditions and decide on what units are fair for that specific scenario.

That said, I cant see it working in any form of competitive environment.
 
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Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
Bahaha I hate to say I told you so but... I told you so.

Oh deary me, this is so bad it hurts, I feel cheated and betrayed. Bye bye Games Workshop, it was nice knowing you... or not.

Still though, compared to 8th edition, which of these is worse? It's like being stuck between one bad set of rules and another. If only I could find people willing to play 6th / 7th edition...
 
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Majrenob

Zombie
Jul 17, 2014
36
So, aside from rumors is it for certain that this is not just a skirmish version of the game that will be "supported for years" and that it won't be followed up by Age of Steel or another named rank and file battle game?
 

Dakaar

Zombie
Jan 14, 2013
49
Unless GW or multiple retailers are lying its confirmed 4 page rules are it - no big rule book coming
Age of sigmar is it - no 9th etc coming
 

GDD

Grave Guard
Jul 30, 2014
200
Darnok said specifics would leak after the meeting that was scheduled today. And we are now presented with these in my opinion absolutely terrible news: http://www.nerdhammer.net/2015/06/29/age-of-sigmar-store-information/

Free rules = very cool. But what I've seen of the new rule set the game looks completely uninteresting to me(at least in comparison to WFB 8th ed). Part of me wants to sound even more doom and gloom, but I will hold off further negativity until I've actually read the rules.

Edit: Still curious about what ever is coming in August.
 

Banat

Varghulf
Jul 13, 2014
790
ITS ALL ABOUT PLAYING THE GAME HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY IT. Except if you want rank and file regiments. If you want that you can fuck off.

Part of me wants to boycott it, as many people as possible, wants it to flop so they realise what a huge blunder they've made and bring in a proper Ninth Edition.

There are few things that look as cool as a 50 strong regiment of ranked spearmen. Forest of spears ftw.

And the round bases just infuriate me. No, they don't look cool. They look like 40k is what they look like. Even Mordheim had square bases.

I will test play it a few times to see what it is like and look forward to seeing what new undead releases/repackaging they bring out.

So far it really does sound like Warhammer Lite. And tbh, even the new logo is far too eighties and aged looking to me with the blue and gold and all the thunderbolts. The red and gold of Warhammer was regal and majestic... this just looks like it crawled out of a battered Eavy Metal catalogue from 1989....


Even the magic phase (hero phase) has been heavily watered down. The whole thing about having X dice and choosing how many of them you'd throw at a spell, leaving you with Y, and how many your opponent would throat to try and dispel, was all brilliantly tactical/strategic... trying to tease them into using all their power dice so you could get off the vital spells you needed, uncontested. Now you both just have two dice for each spell and it literally is just down to the luck of the roll.

It doesn't even look like wizard levels make an impact... I mean WTF... so a standard necro is as capable of casting a spell as Nagash now? I'm sure he will have his special rules but w/e...

SIGH. Off to bed to sleep off the rage.
 
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Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Oct 28, 2014
293
Games Workshop was a good company once, one that actually cared about their customers and the rules they wrote. Then they became a toy company dressed up as a wargame company, making their models ever more pointlessly detailed, bigger, easily broken and impractical as gaming pieces. Then this happened!

Why couldn't they just re-write the Fantasy rules so they were balanced and not full of crazy shit like steadfast and overpowered spells? Why couldn't they just streamline all the armybooks into one document for ease of updates? No, instead they have to overreact and destroy Warhammer: The Game of Fantasy Battles after 30 years of it. Such fools. Such utter fools.
 
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Demian

Vampire Count
Oct 28, 2011
1,245
So... I kinda like:

- Charging is different! I knew they'd revisit the movement phase, because some things were a bit clumsy. Not needing to be in b2b is actually kinda cool, so you can get, for example, Krell in the thick of the combat, swinging and slaying at will, until someone dares to approach with a monster, then Krell can decide to make his way and attack it, just because said monster got too close to him...

- Dispelling actually requires you to move your wizards to counter spells, not just hide a wizard on the back and use your +5 bonus to dispel stuff.

- Weapons deal an amount of damage, instead of the mandatory 1 wound per attack. Though there is yet to see if the rolls and saves are altered, and how.

- Some wounds ignore armour AND To-Wound rolls. I think some form of Ward saves will still be in place there, as a special save.

- Break tests are a bit better now (I think), instead of making a whole unit just dissappear because you rolled dual-6 was a bit off... now, you get to keep at least some dudes alive, even after an unlucky roll. I'm assuming Undead will ignore this rule or... get a different one. We'll have to see about this yet.

I'm iffy about:

(besides all that has already been said)

- It's gonna be a B&%$h to move all models 1 by 1, specially if our games will resemble anything like a 2500pts 8th ed, where I have 80+ zombies on the table. I'm all for saying screw all your screw the movement trays.




I HAVE AN IDEA :D!

Lets keep what's done right with AoS and, everything else not covered by those 4-page rules, we 8th Ed the Sh&$ out of it (like terrain rules, deployment rules... etc)
 
Nov 13, 2013
927
Vancouver, Canada
LINK TO RULES

Not sure if these were posted, but these popped up on my twitter feed today. From the new WD, I believe.

Not sure how I feel. Could be good or bad. Depends on what actual choices we get to make in army construction, I suppose. Fixed-size units is done well in WM/H. Provided there is some decisions in hero construction, I don't see how removing the ridiculous granuilarity of present list construction is necessarily the end of all complexity.

Chipping 2 skeletons off a unit here or there to pay for some extra upgrades on other units has always been more annoyance for me than anything. Fixed unit sizes really isn't the worst thing ever. So long as I can still customize my vampire lord that's cool, and since 90% of us have identical mundane choices much of that customization we currently have is illusory anyways.


I can see fixed unit sizes, differentiation between special/rare/core, fixed numbers of heroes with pools of options, from which you get a set number. Think demon gifts or Slann disciplines, but without point values also attached.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Dec 23, 2012
2,046
Oregon
I was allowed to discuss the rules with a contact of mine at GW. The complexity of rules is on the warscrolls and how they interact, along with the free form movement. So for example, you take a unit of armored infantry, stick a unit of spears behind them and stick a monster behind that. You now have a armored unit that holds enemy off while the spears and monster fight over the front rank. Units control there area with 3" of themselves to, causing enemy to move back or engage. Between all of the possibilities of unit types and combining differently armed units in whatever formation you want, there actually is about if tactical options.

Then mix in the rolled initiative and alternating attacks during combat, there is a lot going on in 4 pages of rules.

Also, he was certain the war scrolls have all unit options and point values on them. It's only in this boxed set that point values aren't used.
 

Borgnine

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Jun 15, 2013
2,036
Pruszkow, Poland
After reading the rules and thinking this through I actually like it, as long as the stuff in the link posted by @Pirate Robot Ninja of Death is true. I can actually live with simplifying things and if I will be still allowed to use my square based minis on trays it's all good. Even the thing about not using points and just agreeing on armies is fine for me - it actually supports the beer&pretzels facet of the game and not the competitive side of it. I understand that tournament players will be sour about it, but I personally don't have a problem with it.
Maybe I will be able to mix units from different armies / groups, that would open a great deal of modelling options.

Right now I am worried only about the aesthetic direction they will take - I hope that the sigmarines are the only ones that look as if they are from WoW and the rest of thing will stay more 'Warhammerish'. But it will probably not....

I'd better save up some square bases when they are still available...
 

Banat

Varghulf
Jul 13, 2014
790
I was allowed to discuss the rules with a contact of mine at GW. The complexity of rules is on the warscrolls and how they interact, along with the free form movement. So for example, you take a unit of armored infantry, stick a unit of spears behind them and stick a monster behind that. You now have a armored unit that holds enemy off while the spears and monster fight over the front rank. Units control there area with 3" of themselves to, causing enemy to move back or engage. Between all of the possibilities of unit types and combining differently armed units in whatever formation you want, there actually is about if tactical options.

Then mix in the rolled initiative and alternating attacks during combat, there is a lot going on in 4 pages of rules.

Also, he was certain the war scrolls have all unit options and point values on them. It's only in this boxed set that point values aren't used.

If this is the case, mixing units together, that does sound fairly cool at least.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
Feb 3, 2015
450
Bromley
ITS ALL ABOUT PLAYING THE GAME HOW YOU WANT TO PLAY IT. Except if you want rank and file regiments. If you want that you can fuck off.
I just laughed milk out of my nose! Thanks Banat, you made my day.

I'm bowled over by this news! They put the rules up for free, clever girl... I'll definitely hear them out, see how it plays, if my mates don't just stick to 8th anyway. It certainly looks to be a very fresh approach and if it works, it'll be revolutionary. A living rules set, from these guys? Incredible!

I'm also very hopeful for the new models (although not those we've seen), I can definitely see some new Elves joining my End Times force for a more harmonised look, as long as they don't go too high fantasy or steampunk pauldrons, and hopefully there'll be some highly inventive Undead and Skaven bits to carve up as well.

I think Infernal Skull nailed the whole issue over us skeptics, it's about communication. I've got such a love/hate relationship with GW, they used to be so cool with their opening sales and clearances, random store prizes, community input in White Dwarf... I've had a couple of recent rants regarding their impersonal approach of late, the sales strategy that squeezes panic purchases as with End Times and the so-called 4th Edition of Space Hulk, but their hand's been forced, they have to protect their IP, and there's a lot more going on: aside from all the excellent new releases over the past few years, I just found out there's a Warhammer Channel on YouTube, the paint guide I was shown is a strong but not a hard sell of their new paint system, and I liked what I saw. I hope we see a lot more upfront info from Nottingham in the near future; maybe even an interview or two, or a little tour of the head office? Show everyone they're human beings and not above us simple folk.

I'm sure there are a few stubborn mules that will troll anything GW does for better or worse, equally a few that believe GW can do no wrong, but I think those of us that sit on the fence need to see less high-handedness from what is essentially a toy company. Fair enough if they're restructuring and they're all about toys now, someone else writes and develops the rules and setting and Black Library does the novels, but at least send someone down to us hobbyists every now and then (metaphorically of course) to have some kind of dialogue regarding what's going on, what's in the pipeline and how we can all enjoy their games as fully as possible. Give us the unofficial line on where they're taking the company or what legal challenges they're facing outside of the annual shareholders' report or press releases for the papers. Fair enough it may go over the heads of the youngest players, but GW depends on a fanbase that's too invested in them to ignore. Putting a couple of guys on YouTube to represent head office, leading the charge on these big releases and smoothing over some of the more controvrsial stuff, might not be the safest thing to do but it would be appreciated, I think.
 

Banat

Varghulf
Jul 13, 2014
790
That's one of the things i noticed, the ip protection, the new names... aelfs, orrucks, serephon etc
 

GDD

Grave Guard
Jul 30, 2014
200
Darnok over at warseer is still saying that there will be a BRB coming out, and that "mass battles" will not go. I really hope this is the case, but it kinda directly contradicts some of the rumors coming from people that either work, or talk with people at GW.

The "formation stuff" Najo mentions does sound cool, but I am more happy to hear points costs will still be a thing.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,252
I would certainly hope the complexity is in the warscrolls, because there isn't really enough meat on the core rules for me to sink my teeth into. I'm worried about the points thing, the lack of any mention of them, and some rumors saying there just aren't any, has me thinking that GW has washed their hands of balancing sides altogether and just left it to the players, in which case I really won't be able to play this game at all. There'd just be no point.

Otherwise, overall the game really just doesn't feel like it has the sort of tactical and interactive elements to it that made WHFB so cool. No careful maneuvering to turn flanks or draw your enemy into a bad position. No carefully judging how many dice to use on spells in an attempt to bait out dispel dice before the spell you really want to cast. None of that.

I don't hate everything about it. For a skirmish game, I like how they handle being locked in combat. But if they're doing something so extreme and new, it's frustrating that they kept some of warhammer's most dated and annoying gameplay elements, such as three separate rolls to resolve all (well, most) attacks, and i-go, u-go turns that have one player standing around doing relatively little while they wait for their opponent to do most everything, rather than a LotR style interleaved turn.

If there is a points system, and if the battlescrolls do bring in some interesting depth and complexity in the way they interact, then I could see myself enjoying this as an alternative to low points games, a replacement for warhammer skirmish basically, but it really wouldn't replace warhammer fantasy for me. Yet I doubt I'll be able to find many players for the latter going forward. I'm really hoping KoW 2nd edition is a more interesting and effective game than the first, now that they're trying to sell a game for GW's models, and not just models for GW's game.

As for the names, I think it's more a matter of our monsters are different and Phantasy spelling than of copyright issues. Plenty of fantasy books/games/what have you write about Wamphyrs instead of Vampires, Dh'raq'ons instead of Dragons and so forth. It's a dumb trope, but a common one, and doesn't require any sort of wacky intellectual property malarky to explain it. GW knows that players can continue buying elf models from other companies even if they're called 'aelfs' in AoS. Heck, 'aelf' isn't even a copy-rightable or trade-markable name.
 
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Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
Dec 9, 2013
1,315
Aside from all of the differences between Fantasy and Age of Sigmar, why the fuck is GW doing the preorder on the biggest American Holiday? None of the stores within 500 miles of me are going to be open!! Sure, I can order online, but everyone in the US is also going to have to, which will likely crash their site. Additionally, it keeps all of the non-GW stores from those orders. I get that GW is in the UK and they probably hate the 4th of July, but it doesn't make any sense business-wise.
 

Zephyr

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Mar 3, 2008
2,522
Rotterdam
Seeing this I'd rather WHF to have simply died. This AoS is a travesty that pees all over a dead corpse I still mourn the loss of (and will resurrect by playing 7th with my friends but that's a story without GW).

Maybe my 2nd love, 40K, will follow suit when sales go down a certain percent.
After all, if people can still be positive about this piece of $4i^ and 40K sales drop enough they will start up 40K End Times. Followed by a 'fun and fast paced skirmish system where you can pick any model you'd like to use'. Like Unbound wasn't bad enough...
Will my 30K be safe?! I'm seriously concerned here. Where will this madness stop? They would do anything if they think it would lead to better sales.

Yes they are a company. They need to make a profit but the way they are going about it is abysmal. Screwing over us vets is stupid because what stops a company from treating the new players, future vets, the same?
No amount of cool miniatures will save your bad PR. People will never buy knowing fully well they'll get screwed over a few years down the line.

I never felt I belonged on this planet but when I see people enthusiastic about this I don't feel, I KNOW I do not belong here.
I hope everyone who screamed for the End Times to come and the setting to advance are happy now. This is the future you have been craving for. Rejoice!

But seriously those enjoying this I truly hope you have many fun games to come but this old vet has had enough.
I will no longer support WH and once I finished my Word Bearers(30&40K) I will not start another army either.
 
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