Age of sigmar

[Mr. West]

Well, the complete set of four pages of rules has leaked (not just some blurry phone pics), as have the so-called 'Warscrolls'.

I'm neither going to start a rant here, nor will I comment on these new 'rules'.

It's an entirely new game, that has close to nothing to do with WHFB. There is a tiny fluff connection (one world reborn from the ashed of another), but otherwise WHFB as a game can now be officially proclaimed dead.
From a GW perspective that is.

The king is dead. Long live the king !

Now, who's up for pre-End-Times game of WHFB !? erv:

 

[Infernal Skull]

Well, well, well... "No part of a model may move further than the model's move characteristic."

Eat it, sword turners!

 

[Undying Scourge]

This crap makes me want to pack up all my warhammer that i spent a considerable amount of money on and time and effort painting / converting, take them down to my local GW, and just dump them there while shouting at the staff like a cunt.

 

[DarkRane]

Its 40k rules for fantasy

Guess I'm not collecting a WHF army after all.... oh well, back to burning the galaxy it is :devil2:

 

[Pirate Robot Ninja of Death]

Read the new warscrolls that were leaked. Verdict is that there...just isn't a game here. Theres a 4-page skeleton of a ruleset, and a bunch of unit rules that are like pages out of a D&D Monster Manual...but without CR or experience values.

Unless a large piece is missing, there is presently no mechanism whatsoever for determining what models you put on the table, beyond "field what you like." Out-numbered armies can select from a table of "sudden death" scenarios, but a 6-wound monster counts for as much as a single warrior for that metric.

What's more concerning is the complete lack of equipment or magic item choice. Unless the warscrolls outside the starter box have significantly more complexity, the only choice you get to make seems to be what models you set up on the table.

I'll read the army-specific rules when they're released on Saturday, but the wind is no longer behind the sails of my optimism.

TL;DR - this reads more like a rules-light RPG system than a competitive game of any variety.

 

[Mr. West]

*leansback*
*sipswhiskey*
*writeseightheditionarmylists*

 

[Hellwraith]

I think I'm going to just stick with playing 8th edition with my wife.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

Interesting. Gonna play 8th this weekend anyway. Cheers.

 

[Alabaster427]

Well, well, well... "No part of a model may move further than the model's move characteristic."

Eat it, sword turners!

This really hurts flyers more than anything else... Batswarms now M1...

 

[Alabaster427]

Seriously, who gives a shit about Sigmar?

I stand by this now more than ever. Nagash would have made this a much better game.
Now dawns... The Age... OF SIGMAR
Well I didn't vote for him...

 

[Sception]

I don't mind it. Sigmar's cool enought, and from the sound of it we have a whole demiplane for Nagash. That's fine for me.

What isn't fine for me are the 'no points values, no army construction rules or guidelines' rumors, now seemingly confirmed by leaks of the full rules plus the warscrolls for the starter box units. That is an absolute deal breaker for me. There's no point to even trying this 'game' at that rate.

Its 40k rules for fantasy

It's really not. The 40k rules are way, way more involved than this, and actually have army construction rules. Actually far more involved construction rules than fantasy had, between detachments and formations and whatsits.

This is just.... so far I can't even really see this as a game. Like, I'd like to try it out, give it a fair chance, but I can't even see how. There's either a huge something still missing, or GW have really just killed age of sigmar before it even got a chance to start.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Yeah really Sigmar for me is one of the most uninteresting characters in Warhammer. He's just this "i'm so manly with my chiselled abs and giant p-i mean hammer" uber-manly manly man Conan the barbarian ripoff. It was always about him and Chaos anyway, just like 40k is all about the Emperor and Chaos, Nagash and the undead were always the sideshow, which sucked, until the crap that is AoS happened and made it all irrelevant.

And still they cannot have any female or remotely feminine models in their range, it all has to be supermen in muscle-armour and manliness and beards and shit. Or if they do have females they have to be scantly clad like Witch Elves, or elves in general, but never humans.

It's not even a game anymore anyway, it's basically just "we sell these pretty miniatures, here's some half-arsed not-rules and a crap story someone wrote at the pub, possibly while drunk, so buy them now." The "Stormcast Eternals" are literally Space Marines, what the hell is the point, why not just play 40k? Why are they even bothering anymore with Fantasy they might as well just delete it all off their site and only sell 40k, they're basically doing it by proxy here anyway.

GW are dead to me now.

 

[Infernal Skull]

This really hurts flyers more than anything else... Batswarms now M1...

The new scroll for bats will probably give them movement 5 or something. And they'll likely get a rule like the flying Sigmarites that lets them charge within 18" and roll 3D6 instead of 2D6 for charge move.

But my comment was in regard to the people freaking out because the rules "said you can measure from the closest part of the model, not the base." I guess they assume you can move a model to the side, and then turn their super long sword to face that direction, gaining an additional 2 inches of movement when you measure the charge from the sword tip.

But as it turns out, the tip of that sword can't be more than M inches from wherever it started.

 

[Count Matthewzilla]

I'm really not getting the no points value thing. That's just weird.

 

[Infernal Skull]

I'm really not getting the no points value thing. That's just weird.

Read this: https://guerrillaminiaturegames.wor...warhammer-age-of-sigmar-pre-release-thoughts/

It kind of explains how it works and how deployment decides the size of the game.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Read this: https://guerrillaminiaturegames.wor...warhammer-age-of-sigmar-pre-release-thoughts/

It kind of explains how it works and how deployment decides the size of the game.

The author of that article is such an obvious GW shill, he makes it all seem so fun and good, when in reality it's a pile of wank.

 

[Infernal Skull]

The author of that article is such an obvious GW shill, he makes it all seem so fun and good, when in reality it's a pile of wank.

I wouldn't be down on him for his enthusiasm. The game seems like a perfectly playable system (don't know about balance though, or how this could attract people from the tournament scene). What it is not, however, is Warhammer. Even if I can play it with my Vampire Count models. It's like a totally different game that you can play with your Warhammer models.

My group and I are planning to continue with a modified version of 8th, but I'm starting to think it might be cool to have 2 ways that I can play with my models. Kind of like if I was to use my VC to play Kings of War. But of all the options, Warhammer is my #1 choice.

 

[Demian]

Yep, this is a completely different game altogether.

• There is no comparison between my models and your models. No weapon skill is used and that's what I liked about comparing a skeleton to a vampire.
  
  
• Accordingly, there is no strength vs Toughness values, just a fixed to-wound difficulty for each model. There was nothing wrong with this! this made models understand their place in the world!
  
  
• Wound count is beyond 1: this... this I think might be OK. Armored models (like Khorne's) are supposed to be bulky enough to withstand a combat wound before collapsing. there are some characters with 5-7 wounds, and now Healing Spells / Effects are a part of the game. Raising new warriors from the dead (Necromancy) will be named some other way I would assume.
  
  
• No formations. As far as I can see, you "can" rank your models up, but it won't impact the game one bit. Once you get into battle, you can re-move all models so they can all strike at an enemy.
  
  
• I Strike, then You strike: this turn-based attacks is what makes RPGs ludicrous. Initiative is what I liked about Warhammer, when combats are supposed to happen at the same time, and some models could even strike at the same time as well, depending on their initiative. They could still have included initiative.
  
  
• Like above, 1 player gets to act while the other just stands there and takes it. Then it is his turn, and so on and so forth. I expected they'd at least learn from WH40K Conquest and set a "Single shared turn" with advantages alternating between each player, plus some army rules that could impact in this instance of the game (ie: Elves being... sorry, Aelves being able to react faster, because of their nature, etc...)
  
  
• Weapons determining how many wounds they cause: this is ok, I guess.
  
  
• Lone models (from different units) are pretty vulnerable to Mortal Wounds now. there is no way to protect your characters from, say those D3 Auto-wounds any Wizard can cast. Again, what was wrong with giving spells a Strength value and (if balance allowed it) then make those unsaveable wounds?
  
  
• As said before, no customization available for anything! Maybe you can choose from some spell pool of sorts with your wizards, but that's it. No giving any character a special weapon.

Without sounding uh... bitchy, I'll try to keep the nice changes with me, and play WHFB 8.5 ed. So far, the only changes I've liked are the Command Ability: Inspiring Presence, Movement and Charging (+ Missile weapons, what I can see) and the Battleshock phase, which I think is more fair.

I'll wait till saturday to read all of our Undead rules to see if they fit the new gameplay and are coupled with the Warhammer Undead concept that I liked when I started playing. If not, 8.5 it will be!

 

[crafty0ne]

I get the feeling the Undertakers Auction will be the busiest section of the forums here in a couple days....

At least I'll have a lot more money to spend on my other hobbies now.

 

[Sception]

The instant victory rules for being outnumbered don't solve the lack of points problem. If anything, they make it much worse! The entire point of a points system is to say how many, say, goblins a nagash is worth, so you can make a fair game. Now everything's just based on model count, so if you field enough goblins to go toe to toe with a nagash, the nagash is 'outnumbered' by more than a third, and you just made victory that much harder for yourself.

The whole 'horde of weak models vs. small force of elites' concept is entirely undone by this change. So either every model is equally powerful and the difference between a vampire on a zombie dragon and a skink archer is purely cosmetic, or the game is just unplayably lopsided, completely discouraging you from fielding anything other than an army exclusively comprised of the strongest individual heroes and monsters available to you.

 

[Infernal Skull]

The system should work fine for friends getting together to play some fun games. But if someone's trying to play strictly competitively, or in a tournament format, yeah, it's easy to break. Even the outnumbering thing: just deploy one model short of outnumbering your opponent by a third. You have an advantage and no sudden death.

it's almost like deployment is a game of chicken: "If I stop deploying now, is my opponent going to be a dick and put out 5 bloodthirsters?"

I mean, I guess you could just have a conversation with your opponent about the kind of game you want to play, but who can be bothered.

 

[Sception]

I imagine I will be having conversations with my opponents about the kinds of games we want to play. I imagine those kinds of games will mostly be games other than Age of Sigmar.

 

[Banat]

On the upside, the Lord Relictor model, minus some thunderbolt iconography, will make an epic undead bsb.

 

[Undying Scourge]

On the upside, the Lord Relictor model, minus some thunderbolt iconography, will make an epic undead bsb.

I'm glad you can see a somewhat positive side to this debacle, because I certainly can't.

 

[Cela Shyish]

Dear Nagash, I really hope this is some sick April fools joke...in July...