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Age of sigmar

Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
Sure the rules are free and we have the models to field what we want so whats to lose?
By the way that this has replaced the hope of 9th ed what we've lost is the future of an indepth and tactical wargaming system in the fantasy battle universe, I'm no power gamer and I hated the ideas of deathstars and so on from 8th but I still loved the tactical edge that the game had over the alternatives i.e. 40k.
I admit I was looking forwards to skirmish style battles AoS promised but with these rules...
Well...
I'll be playing a lot of Mordheim; set it in a bubble of existence after the end times and give the setting an even darker tone with the few survivors trying to etch out an existence in a post apocolyptic old world environment. Personally it seems cooler and only tones down the complexity of 8th, not completely remove it.
You can always update them yourself among your gaming group, no one is stopping you from doing that. Maybe this will finally teach a lot of people to stop relying on GW for rules and actually come up with rules themselves and be creative. :D
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
Also I think the whole point is to come up with houserules. No doubt that in GW stores they'll have houserules for organising games etc.

@Demian This will be hilarious. You'll get to say things like "I come to suck your blood!" and "Don't try to order me around!" and other more insane things. :D
My thoughts exactly!

This game has a lot of stuff like that:

Mannfred gets to improve his rolls if it is night time where you're playing, or you can't see the sun!!
The Grail Knights also improve their combat prowess if they shout "For the Lady!" (in a heroic voice might I add) when they charge. It must be heroic and inspire, or they get nothing xD

Now, my friend, I think someone owes someone an apology...

...now apologize to Konrad!!! xD!


@Demian So... Do you continue to roll for red fury after the fist time it happens..?
There is no balance here, so... I'd say yes. Although Slaying models is not as easy now (for regular troops, named characters, sorry, Heroes have it way to easy!). yet for the purposes of sportsmanship, I'd say use Red Fury just once each turn ^^



BALANCING STUFF:

If you want to play AoS and are unsure of how to balance your army:

Play to WOUNDS totals. Set up a game for 100 - 150 WOUNDS and fill both your armies with as many models as you wish (respecting Unit minimums, because some ask you to include at least 3 - 5 - 10 models, btw). That sould give some fairness to the game.

It's my best idea so far.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, maybe we are able to summon stuff with magic... but Chaos Lords can "call" for their Legions, adding a unit every Hero Phase with their command ability... they truly feel like warlords now!!

Will post more stuff as I read.

@najo @The Sun King ... there is work to be done!!!!! much much work!!
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,137
Wounds is probably the closest we have now, but even that doesn't respect that some units have few wounds because they're just weak, while others have few wounds because they're elite glass cannons, some have many wounds because they're just bulky walls, others because they're superpowered monsters.
 
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GDD

Grave Guard
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
200
It seems that is the best idea the other forums have come up with so far as well. But as they also say I don't think that fixes it. Even among the one wound units I'd say they are far from equal. There are some synergies in some books that can make it worth it, but elite models still seem much better.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
There is no more chaff, nor redirectors.

The terms of the Units have changed quite a bit, as far as I can see. Even Fell Bats and Bat Swarms have uses beyond getting squashed!!

Now I can set my Dire Woles free from the chains of redirectorship and unto a new era of "go munch some faces!"

Frontline units are now designed to stand and form up, while spears rally behind them. Note that some Heroes, secially mounted ones, have a larger melee range (like a Zombie Dragon's talons) ad thus, can be used to attack "safely" while protected by a line or two of Zombies / skeletons.

There can be Tarpits, but as I can see, it is better to field combos now: Corpse Carts + Tons of Zombies = happiness!
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,137
I would be equally happy... if there were a points system ti minimize/eliminate the haggle phase.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
I just noticed that it is not mentioned if you can have a 1+ dificulty rolls, the modifiers just add +x to your results...

So... a Shambling Horde of Zombies (30+ models) and a Corpse Cart will auto-hit stuff...

Awesome :D


nevermind, I calculated wrong =(

Just keep an eye out for these modifiers though, 1's arent always failures, and 6's could not always be hits!
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
I just noticed that it is not mentioned if you can have a 1+ dificulty rolls, the modifiers just add +x to your results...

So... a Shambling Horde of Zombies (30+ models) and a Corpse Cart will auto-hit stuff...

Awesome :D
That's the great thing about these rules large numbers of models are as viable as taking a small, elite force, and each has drawbacks and advantages.
 

Macarian

Vampire Insomniac
Joined
Jan 19, 2014
Messages
114
Crypt door opens with a loud, haunting screech

"By the Nine Books of Nagash, what have they done ... they have done the unthinkable ... the abomination ... the horror ... what will the clan of WAAC think ... this means war ...





They have allowed fun to creep into the rules...."


DUM DUM DUM DUUUUM

:tongue:
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,137
That's the great thing about these rules large numbers of models are as viable as taking a small, elite force, and each has drawbacks and advantages.
Considering that one of the advantages of small elite armies is sudden death victories, i'm still rather unconvinced.
 

Malisteen

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Sep 23, 2009
Messages
2,137
Malisteen, you just talk to people and come up with some rules for setting up games. It's very simple and gives you so much freedom as a group to decide.
Hence the 'haggle phase', where in before avery game you must debate how many skeletons each oger is worth, and whether a corpse cart is a one to one equivalent to a thundertusk. Fine enough for people who play exclusively in their basements with a regular gaming group of long time friends. Largely unworkable for players like me whose friends don't play, and who thus rely on pickup games against aquaintances or outright strangers to play.

I already discussed armies before matches - whether opponents were cool with special characters, end times rules, nagash, etc. But the points system gave such discussions structure, kept them short and sweet, and prevented or at least minimized hurt feelings.
 

Demian

Vampire Count
Joined
Oct 28, 2011
Messages
1,248
You can field a lone zombie dragon...

without a rider! (I know this wouldn't be wise, since adding a Vampire Lord on top of him is extra juicy... but hey! you can use him now as is!

I believe this is so that you can summon a Zombie Dragon, but one that will not be ridden by a vampire, only useable (still debating this) if you field a Zombie Dragon at the start of the game.
 
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
Hence the 'haggle phase', where in before avery game you must debate how many skeletons each oger is worth, and whether a corpse cart is a one to one equivalent to a thundertusk. Fine enough for people who play exclusively in their basements with a regular gaming group of long time friends. Largely unworkable for players like me whose friends don't play, and who thus rely on pickup games against aquaintances or outright strangers to play.

I already discussed armies before matches - whether opponents were cool with special characters, end times rules, nagash, etc. But the points system gave such discussions structure, kept them short and sweet, and prevented or at least minimized hurt feelings.
No what I mean is that you have to, as a gaming group, establish a set structure by which you set up games. You can figure out how to set up your games and what works for you. So basically figuring all that out would be a one-off thing, then after that it would be simple.
 

Draykorinee

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
213
No what I mean is that you have to, as a gaming group, establish a set structure by which you set up games. You can figure out how to set up your games and what works for you. So basically figuring all that out would be a one-off thing, then after that it would be simple.
But I got to two different ones :(
 

GDD

Grave Guard
Joined
Jul 30, 2014
Messages
200
@Undying Scourge Or they could have made better rules/guidelines so everyone everywhere could play together on day one, and so we could discuss tactics and lists here online as well :tongue: I just can't figure out a good way to make the balance work. Restrictions for wounds is not enough. And I want to see core units in this game, but I doubt many of them would be taken without a tax.

I can't seem to get exited for this. Every time I try I end up being stuck at the army composition. Without a widely accepted way of structuring armies I don't see how I would play a game with anyone and feel ok with the result. The whole game feels so half assed due to the lack of structure. Even though there are good things about the game, it feels almost unfinished.

It's the future of warhammer! I want to be excited about this, I really do.
 

Menkeroth

A Knight of Blood
Joined
Nov 11, 2013
Messages
934
Malisteen, you just talk to people and come up with some rules for setting up games. It's very simple and gives you so much freedom as a group to decide.
Aye, and that was long before these times.
You can always update them yourself among your gaming group, no one is stopping you from doing that. Maybe this will finally teach a lot of people to stop relying on GW for rules and actually come up with rules themselves and be creative. :D
Exactly. People don't always like to think on their own... And so the age of FB is over and the Age of Sigmar has begun? But as long as the old models range is in line, it's fine by me. Even the round bases are not that problematic.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
My thoughts exactly!

This game has a lot of stuff like that:

Mannfred gets to improve his rolls if it is night time where you're playing, or you can't see the sun!!
The Grail Knights also improve their combat prowess if they shout "For the Lady!" (in a heroic voice might I add) when they charge. It must be heroic and inspire, or they get nothing xD

Now, my friend, I think someone owes someone an apology...

...now apologize to Konrad!!! xD!




There is no balance here, so... I'd say yes. Although Slaying models is not as easy now (for regular troops, named characters, sorry, Heroes have it way to easy!). yet for the purposes of sportsmanship, I'd say use Red Fury just once each turn ^^



BALANCING STUFF:

If you want to play AoS and are unsure of how to balance your army:

Play to WOUNDS totals. Set up a game for 100 - 150 WOUNDS and fill both your armies with as many models as you wish (respecting Unit minimums, because some ask you to include at least 3 - 5 - 10 models, btw). That sould give some fairness to the game.

It's my best idea so far.


--------------------------------------------------------------------

Btw, maybe we are able to summon stuff with magic... but Chaos Lords can "call" for their Legions, adding a unit every Hero Phase with their command ability... they truly feel like warlords now!!

Will post more stuff as I read.

@najo @The Sun King ... there is work to be done!!!!! much much work!!
That's putting it lightly lol. My community is leaning towards 1+ battalion, set a max on wounds (50 for small games, 100 for normal games, 150 for large games). Tournaments might allow the gag rules to just auto occur or you roll a dice and they happen on a 4+.

Still need to see what comes next. August is the next milestone.
 

Alabaster427

Minister of Thriftiness
True Blood
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Messages
1,315
I wake up to check out GW website for preorder and nothing is there. I did notice that the Warhammer tab has changed to Warhammer: Age of Sigmar and the model search tools have been updated to reflect their AoS names, but you can still search via the old army names. In addition to not having a preorder available, none of the AoS models are there either. Furthermore, Lizardmen are listed under the Faction of Order alongside Dark Elves and everything still has square bases. Maybe they are still updating the site, but it's kind of frustrating.
 

najo

Mortarch of the Dark Soul
True Blood
Joined
Dec 23, 2012
Messages
2,047
Another option for army comp/deployment. Take turns deploying what each of you wants, one warscroll ar a time. Then once aplayer passes, the other player gets to deploy one more warscroll if they deployed second, otherwise deployment is done. Then check sudden death and go. This makes for dynamic and organic armies and deployment. Weird countering and non traditional armies.
 

Dragonet

Wight King
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
450
From what I see this is definitely a skirmish game, a bridge between WHFB and 40K, possibly a cheap buy-in for LotR players... and a cheap, fun buy-in for future Warhammer players.

All the Warhammer rules and square bases have been pulled and everyone's been told that WHFB is dead, never to return. I keep looking back to Space Hulk 4th Edition and the cynic in me reckons that Age Of Sigmar is, like End Times, a global period of control from GW HQ to carry us along with the story, after which they'll roll out 9th with newly drafted factions and a more serious approach for the serious collector/player.

More sexy hardback rulebooks; more pewter counters and stylised templates; and best of all, a new wave of people that started with a copy of this week's White Dwarf hacking away their round bases to field the Sigmarites in 9th Edition.
 

Atrophus

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
214
Another option for army comp/deployment. Take turns deploying what each of you wants, one warscroll ar a time. Then once aplayer passes, the other player gets to deploy one more warscroll if they deployed second, otherwise deployment is done. Then check sudden death and go. This makes for dynamic and organic armies and deployment. Weird countering and non traditional armies.
And why they couldn't have just added a simple paragraph like this is beyond me.
Solves the point issues without limiting the game and models too much.
 

Tawg

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
1,132
That is literally the funniest thing I've seen ever. And sadly true.

Hence the 'haggle phase', where in before avery game you must debate how many skeletons each oger is worth, and whether a corpse cart is a one to one equivalent to a thundertusk. Fine enough for people who play exclusively in their basements with a regular gaming group of long time friends. Largely unworkable for players like me whose friends don't play, and who thus rely on pickup games against aquaintances or outright strangers to play.

I already discussed armies before matches - whether opponents were cool with special characters, end times rules, nagash, etc. But the points system gave such discussions structure, kept them short and sweet, and prevented or at least minimized hurt feelings.
Malisteen, I'm very confused by you. You're a super cool guy, but I can't fathom why you're so distraught over this. We are humans, and more importantly of the Gamer variety. For any obstacle that comes our way, we will simply find (Or build) a ramp, and go over it. Age of Sigmar is simply an obstacle.

I said before, if anyone is truly disheartened by this the best solution is simply to dig in and get your own game on. Age of Sigmar is honestly a farce, even if I'm going to give it a go, it's a foolish and failing endeavor (I hope anyways, no one wants GW to be rewarded for this). I would have grossly preferred them to simply say "We stopped making rules, do it yourselves, we suck at it anyways." rather than this, but I understand the whole "money machine" mentality and it's fair enough to say anything driving profits matters most. Of course it burns the fans, but f&#k it all, the game is already not worth keeping (I would assume, judging by this drastic measure), might as well try something I guess.

Some people will cling to 8th, as the last bastion of a once great world sundered by it's creator, and that's fine.

Some people might move to Age of Sigmar, but it'll take time to see how well the game ends up doing. Honestly, without the game, collecting/painting armies is still a thing for some people (I like it), so GW models may sell just on that.

But if you want to move into Age of Sigmar and feel like it's too fractured, we just have to make it up, like we always have. No FAQ for clearly broken rules? House rule it.

I don't know why no one else is looking into this already, but GW already has balanced everything for us. Perhaps not well, but we'll see once we look into numbers and such. But just consider the stat lines. They aren't points values, but they are "balancing" mechanisms, because by virtue GW has declared some units are more powerful than others. And I assume it wasn't entirely arbitrary (It may have been).

So look at a stat line, and break it down. What is 5" of movement worth? It's standard for most models, let's call it 0 pts. Then we judge other models and see the value of their abilities and stats and just throw together an unofficial "pts cost" rules list. Certainly somewhere this will happen, because where a dam is broken wide open, there will always be persons scrambling to fill in the cracks (Or build a nearly new dam in this case).

That or truly tell GW to shove it, and never buy from them again. Which I think is a very real possibility for many players. I just hope there aren't so many that are cross over players from 40k that they suffer to the point of ruining themselves.
 
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