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Age of sigmar

Blutsauger

Vampire Count
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,091
I don't see how you could even make a friendly game that is balanced. You would have to spend more time discussing balance than playing the game.

You don't. You just plonk your models down, toss some dice around, do some ridiculous pantomime actions (have you seen some of those warscrolls?!) and have a laugh, and who cares who wins or loses?

That's the sort of game this is.
 

Quinten

Grave Guard
Joined
Jul 17, 2014
Messages
269
Unfortunately, I don't find games 'fun' unless you are actually working towards a meaningful goal; actually they are okay for the first 15min then get old really fast. I'm not looking to invest hundreds of dollars in a game that gets old really fast.
 

Blutsauger

Vampire Count
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
1,091
Unfortunately, I don't find games 'fun' unless you are actually working towards a meaningful goal; actually they are okay for the first 15min then get old really fast. I'm not looking to invest hundreds of dollars in a game that gets old really fast.

Then Age of Sigmar is not for you. I'd recommend either staying with 8th or giving Kings of War a go.
 

Draykorinee

Grave Guard
Joined
Sep 10, 2014
Messages
213
Okay, every ethereal can fly, my varghulf can fly, I could easily make a complete flying army lol, I really can't get excited except for that :tongue:
 
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El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
588
I just don't know anymore. I was very optimistic before the war scrolls, now my head hurts.
It's funny how some of us have switched views on this since the war scrolls came out.
One upshot is we might see plastic Blood Knights given how crazy they've become.
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
FlyinG Horror
Some Vampire Lords have membranous
wings; these have Move 10" and can fly.

I Am sorrry,english not my mother language. What does that mean? How do you know who have wings or not?
 

Tawg

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
1,132
I just don't know anymore. I was very optimistic before the war scrolls, now my head hurts.
It's funny how some of us have switched views on this since the war scrolls came out.
One upshot is we might see plastic Blood Knights given how crazy they've become.

I went back far enough to see Undying Scourge's flip from unhappy to thrilled for Blood Knights. I have to say it's pretty golden.

It's kinda like Schrodinger's cat. It could be dead or alive while it's hidden from us, but now that the cat is out of the bag, it's really looking rather much like a festering corpse that is best responded to with "Please don't touch me with that."

Although I'm more in the camp you're in; I wanted to be ok with this coming out, and I wanted to be ok with what was going to come out, but after I saw a list of the "Sillyness" in the Warscrolls (Talking to Konrad, Nagash-Die-Monte, losing to kneeling if you have a certain character on your team, or "buffs" for not smiling during a game?) It's a little harder for me to accept. But the core of the 'game' (generously calling it so), is still there, and it will be playable, albeit a challenge to balance at first so one team doesn't trounce the other completely. And maybe it'll come out that certain "factions" simply have far better leaders/characters or what have you, that simply aren't fun to play against. But at least, for GW, they never gave any of them points values, so it's not their fault you didn't balance things yourself!

As Rob mentioned in his blog post (Excellent by the way, although I think you forgot some bread?), they have certainly cemented their status as Miniatures manufacturer, which you may choose to play games with, but this concept wracks my brain more than the utter-nonsense contained in the rules.

If they intend to make beautiful models (Which they do), for hobbyist to enjoy, who are they trying to sell to? If they intend to be a miniature company first and foremost, can their models not support themselves on their appearance? I mean, I know not everyone is in the game for the hobby first and foremost, but now there is no other reason to be into Warhammer. No one can look at rules like that and say "Now THAT makes me want to spend hundreds of hard earned dollars to play!" If they want to play Age of Sigmar, they can just draw doodles on paper and cut them out, 'enjoy' the experience, and get on with it. But if they are trying to market models, to discerning folks to enjoy the hobby, what is this game even? I dare say that, to be invested in this whole thing as a hobby, you very well would need a reliable disposable income, patience and time to model/paint, as well as skill and I would say a fair bit of intelligence. But if those qualities are ones possessed by their target market, hobbyist interested in their models (Which have very unique and distinct branding, so they are not confused about what they are buying) then why throw a game that can't be taken seriously at them? They would be better off saying "You're literally on your own, we don't know the first thing about balance. WE GIVE UP!" rather than making a system built on interactions that could be considered insulting to their player base. (You want me to whisper back and forth with myself, to my model, to gain bonuses.. right..about that..)

So really, this whole thing, seeing it a bit more fleshed out, just seems like a completely conflicted mish-mash of target marketing. I guess some people may fall into the range of "deeply interested in hobby-related activities" and also "Want to throw toys at my friends toys, and see who wins!" but for the most part, I would assume there is a direct conflict between the people interested in this "game" and "hobby".

I mean, for me the hobby is much more important, so this is much less difficult to swallow on the basis of, if I want to make nice looking models, GW still has nice looking models. But the follow up game I am graciously granted free access to, seems like a deterrent more than anything.

Granted I thought 40k might suck coming back to it recently, and I've been having the most fun I've ever had playing these games lately, even when my friend and I end up with poorly matched armies. And we have been struggling with balance in 40k as well. Kights/Titans, various armies having advantages/poor rules. It all means we have to put forth effort to try and make the game a little more fair to each other, but the core 40k system with objectives is insanely fun and means that just because my opponent can smash anything I bring to the table doesn't mean they instantly win. And maybe they'll release nice rule-sets and objective based missions for AoS, and it won't end up being something people simply want to avoid at all cost.
 

Tawg

Vampire Count
True Blood
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
1,132
FlyinG Horror
Some Vampire Lords have membranous
wings; these have Move 10" and can fly.

I Am sorrry,english not my mother language. What does that mean? How do you know who have wings or not?

The new rules for AoS seem to be some of the most loosely based rules presented yet. This passage you quoted about some vampires having wings is simply their way of giving players the "Rules" for playing with their vampire models that were made with wings. Specifically there is that one with full armor holding a wing up that GW made, I assume that's what they were interested in.

So to answer your question, hoe do you know who has wings or not? You look at them. That's simply what they expect of players. To judge their models as they must.
 

snyggejygge

Skeleton
Joined
Jun 28, 2014
Messages
81
Overall it looks very simplified, but not that bad, it really needs some balance system though..
Also some rules are just weird, Wulfrik´s ability to challenge only works if I get my opponent to react to my own challenge, the Cockatrice gets +1 to it´s gaze roll if my opponent blinks when I look him into the eye, not to mention Kurt Helborg getting a bonus if you have a moustache or not to mention the downright broken combo: the 1:st turn kill combo (Kairos + Screaming Bell, roll 13 & win)
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
Overall it looks very simplified, but not that bad, it really needs some balance system though..
Also some rules are just weird, Wulfrik´s ability to challenge only works if I get my opponent to react to my own challenge, the Cockatrice gets +1 to it´s gaze roll if my opponent blinks when I look him into the eye, not to mention Kurt Helborg getting a bonus if you have a moustache or not to mention the downright broken combo: the 1:st turn kill combo (Kairos + Screaming Bell, roll 13 & win)

Yeah but the thing is that this wouldn't work because the new game is based on things like sportsmanship, the spirit of fun, and not being a power gaming dick. :)
 

Count michael

The Undead Sparky
Joined
May 17, 2010
Messages
790
Overall it looks very simplified, but not that bad, it really needs some balance system though..
Also some rules are just weird, Wulfrik´s ability to challenge only works if I get my opponent to react to my own challenge, the Cockatrice gets +1 to it´s gaze roll if my opponent blinks when I look him into the eye, not to mention Kurt Helborg getting a bonus if you have a moustache or not to mention the downright broken combo: the 1:st turn kill combo (Kairos + Screaming Bell, roll 13 & win)

Challenger say what:tongue: perfect way to get Wulfriks challenges working

God some of them are pretty funny I was expecting for ogres you had to burp or something for a few characters, would really be interesting how some play out especially Konrad's bat out of the belfry rule arguing whether or not he was talking back to you. Suddenly the massive influx of empire players with moustaches increases rapidly in honour of Kurt
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
Ok i understand now, This is LoL with miniatures.
really funny,too bad LoL is for free,an army cost at lewst a couple of hundreds.
well,me and my group will meet to fix the books of 8ed and keep on playing with that.
you guys have fun
also the blood knight guy....dude...u need help....
 

Zephyr

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Joined
Mar 3, 2008
Messages
2,523
Have to admit the gag rules gave me a chuckle or two BUT it's kind of offensive TBH. yes you spent all your money on our minis now go and play this "troll your opponent game for eight year olds'.
It could be funny for two or three games or after getting completely wasted but this should not be a gag game.
Should it be fun? Hell yes Gods know my friend and I RPed a little during play at times but when its part of the rules it reeks.

They should have come out without any rules and just stated that 'yes we're only selling miniatures from now on'.
Why on earth spend time creating a serious setting post ET and bring out this heap of dung?

The fact people suddenly love this because of the gags or that their models have just become OP really shows me there is no hope for the future. Long-term thinking has really gone out of the window with the bathwater and baby both.
With this mindset of 'this is funny so lighten up' or 'yeah uberpowerful lists FTW' GW will continue this stupid trend and the company will be dead in a few years.

I'm finishing up my 30 & 40K and GW will not get another dime from me after. It is pretty clear they do not give a damn about the background or rules of a system.
Hello Fantasy with Raging Heroes models and the 7th edition rulebook.
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
Have to admit the gag rules gave me a chuckle or two BUT it's kind of offensive TBH. yes you spent all your money on our minis now go and play this "troll your opponent game for eight year olds'.
It could be funny for two or three games or after getting completely wasted but this should not be a gag game.
Should it be fun? Hell yes Gods know my friend and I RPed a little during play at times but when its part of the rules it reeks.

They should have come out without any rules and just stated that 'yes we're only selling miniatures from now on'.
Why on earth spend time creating a serious setting post ET and bring out this heap of dung?

The fact people suddenly love this because of the gags or that their models have just become OP really shows me there is no hope for the future. Long-term thinking has really gone out of the window with the bathwater and baby both.
With this mindset of 'this is funny so lighten up' or 'yeah uberpowerful lists FTW' GW will continue this stupid trend and the company will be dead in a few years.

I'm finishing up my 30 & 40K and GW will not get another dime from me after. It is pretty clear they do not give a damn about the background or rules of a system.
Hello Fantasy with Raging Heroes models and the 7th edition rulebook.

You don't seem to understand. The reason I am liking this is because a) I already have all the models I need, and the rules are free, so why not? b) it sounds like fun and c) I never liked powergaming. I do not intend on spending many pennies in Games Workshop, so it doesn't matter what happens. Maybe I will buy the odd pot of paint or brush but no models, i'll just be buying them off ebay as I have been doing for several years now.

I collected my models because I enjoyed doing it. I never bought them for an advantage, I only ever bought models that I liked the fluff for, the appearance of, and which I would enjoy painting / modelling. The fact that I happen to have 50 blood knights is just a product of that, and I think I have the right to be happy that I can actually use them all now, together, in a game, and put some nicely painted models on the table and have fun.

I can understand why you don't like it. It's the sense of loss of pre-determined structure, which makes it feel anarchic and ridiculous, but the most important thing about it is that houseruling has never been more openly promoted along with the fact that sure, you CAN take overpowered, stupid things but no one is going to play you if you do. It's all about trust and not being a dick, which it always was, but now it's even more accentuated.

No one is going to get trolled past maybe the first game, and the rules are balanced so that if you keep deploying models you will be punished by a Sudden Death victory condition, which gives incentive to stop at a certain point and not go overboard, but also allows for really cool, fluffy scenarios (like Nagash leading a vast horde of undead against a small band of soldiers, whose leader cries out "The undead will fall apart without their leader! The only way we can win is if we kill Nagash! ATTACK!!") People who are immature and show no restraint in their deployments are not going to be very welcome around other players, and will most likely be ostracised.

Now more than ever Warhammer has become a fun experience that promotes community and trust between players, that has good rules for almost every unit in the game, to the point where there is no unit redundancy, and which allows you to simply have fun without worrying about "the meta" or "list building".

Also the rules are much more organic and realistic. Formations only last as long as the units aren't in combat, but when the fighting begins they just pile right in and it becomes a massive melee in the middle of the board, with arrows flying through the air, spells exploding in vivid colour etc. etc.

To say I have changed my mind about this would be accurate. But to say that I do not still lament the passing of Warhammer FB is not true - because that holds a place in my heart just as much as this new game does. Besides, if I or anyone else really wanted to play WHFB, all you have to do is go to a local club and organise a game with someone.
 
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El Syf

Crypt Horror
Joined
Dec 4, 2011
Messages
588
Black library seem to have removed all warhammer titles from their site.
But you can now order the gates of azyr...
 

Undying Scourge

Blood Knight
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
293
I don't think I've seen a bigger flip flop on the internet than undying scourge...rawr games workshop can crash and burn...oooh this is good.

28468-Taylor-swift-lol-gif-OMBg.gif

Okay, I am a flip flop... but what's the point being all bitter about it? I can still play WHFB if I really want to, nothing is stopping me from doing that in a local club or with friends, and the rules for AoS are free, so what's to lose?
 

Emicrania

Wight King
Joined
Mar 3, 2014
Messages
486
Grumpy-Cat-Prozac.jpg
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
Staff member
True Blood
Joined
Dec 29, 2010
Messages
2,262
While this is certainly a megathread, try to avoid non-content posts with just images or throwaway comments please guys
 

Atrophus

Grave Guard
Joined
Feb 14, 2014
Messages
214
I honestly don't know what to think anymore, I'm not even angry about this nonsense, I'm just shocked. :slapface:

To think of all the hours of effort I've put into this hobby and all the money I've spent supporting GW.
The rules are just lazy and have lost all the balance and tactics of anything before, replaced with cheap jokey nonsense rules.
I mean why drop WS, S, T etc?They're still used in 40k.

I'm willing to wait to see if there's gonna be a u-turn and a big rule book in a couple of months. But as it stands I'm not willing to support this. The fluff seems cool and the new minis look awesome, but the rules are just awful and gimmicky.

I've been a big GW supporter for well over 15 years now, but this is a real kick in the teeth, I honestly feel a little betrayed.
If people are willing to play this I honestly hope they enjoy it and have fun with it, but I'm out, I may be over reacting a little and might have a change of heart but as it stands in not willing to support this.

Rant over :tongue:
 
Joined
Jan 14, 2014
Messages
36
Sure the rules are free and we have the models to field what we want so whats to lose?
By the way that this has replaced the hope of 9th ed what we've lost is the future of an indepth and tactical wargaming system in the fantasy battle universe, I'm no power gamer and I hated the ideas of deathstars and so on from 8th but I still loved the tactical edge that the game had over the alternatives i.e. 40k.
I admit I was looking forwards to skirmish style battles AoS promised but with these rules...
Well...
I'll be playing a lot of Mordheim; set it in a bubble of existence after the end times and give the setting an even darker tone with the few survivors trying to etch out an existence in a post apocolyptic old world environment. Personally it seems cooler and only tones down the complexity of 8th, not completely remove it.
 
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