Age of sigmar

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Saw that post a few days ago on Warseer, and I must say I'm super suspicious. These occasions are where trolls really thrive, putting together some startlingly extensive fake rumours and such.

The same person posted another massive block of text about general rules and stuff related to armies, and over on warseer HAstings said a lot of it lined up with what he has heard, so that fluff may be close to right, if so Nagash is now a God.

It's on page 53 of the sigmar rumor thread
 
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So according to that wall of text, even if it is rumor-trolling, I can see that more and more people are inclined to using "Shared-turn" systems, over the old "your turn-my turn" model.

I saw that coming from WH40k: Conquest, where you can actively move and counter your oponent at the same(ish) time he is attempting to do so himself, promoting a more interactive gameplay instead of the typical: "So you shoot at me and I just hang here and do nothing? ok I guess"

A little bit like Might & Magic Heroes franchise.

So, for rumor-trolling, it seems quite elaborate and... if it turns out to be just a rumor, and the actual game is less than what this anonymous person has promised me, I'll be really disappointed xD
 
I definitely found the concepts in it interesting, it was supposedly a quick read through so things may be wrong. Although I would hope it Is I move a unit you move a unit instead of I move, shoot, and magic with unit one, then repeat for the rest of my army then you do so, then combat, I think the back and forth would make the game more dynamic allowing as you said, the ability to react to what your opponent does
 
Shared turn or not, this does not even remotely resemble the Warhammer we have been playing for so many years. If your desire is to play something this drastically different, you are getting what you want. If you enjoyed Warhammer up until this point and would have liked to see it continue, you are going to be sorely disappointed.

Based on this latest rumor, it seems mass combat is out, and skirmish smaller game size is in.

I find the concepts of the game intriguing, and if it were just some new game being proposed to me as something else to play in the warhammer universe I'd probably be down. But as the new incarnation of their fantasy battles line? I find myself wondering what happened to warhammer....
 
Rumors from harry and hastings have stated the upcoming game system will support smaller skirmish sized games as well as full mass combat, so the person reading the rumor may not have read the section regarding larger game sizes. I think it sounds interesting, and if what other rumor mongers have stated is true, that mass battle is still an option, I think it will be an interesting and exciting change. If this change can get more people into Fantasy I will gladly welcome it, my game group is now just me and one other person, and we have had a handful of people in the recent past start to pick up the game, but they never made it much farther than a starter box. If it really is a scaling game system I think it is what fantasy needs. IT is way to expensive as is to get into Fantasy, considering 2500 is the most played points level in my area/tyournaments in my area.
 
But most of the models in ranked combat are nothing more than wound counters, if you give models more wounds, you get the exact same effect with less models, and a lower buy in price. Will the movement phase change? Probablly, but unless GW really screws the pooch, movement will still require strategy and tactics to employ, and will likely still be the most important phase of the game.

And Lord of the rings had circle bases and yet could still rank up, so circle bases doesn't negate the possibility of ranked infantry.
 
I just read all this big block of rumors.

All the changes in rules I can welcome, maybe it will be better, who knows. Fluff is also quite malleable, especially how people constantly make their own fluff or modify it.
Just why the round bases? Last months I was hoping that it would be false, but every single rumor confirms it. Not only it disrupts all the tactical way of thinking, but also the modelling aspect of the game. Of course @Nicreap, one can rank them, but leaving ugly empty spaces between them - and it's more difficult and less dense. I am definitely not a fan. Mortis Engine on a oval base, ok - but 50 zombies on them? It was probably said here time and again, but turning it into a skirmish game is just screwing all the people that managed to build big armies.

Hopefully people will still be playing 8th edition and square bases will be available on ebay or similiar sites. ;)
 
Remember, the rumors have all agreed that you can still use square bases, so you don't have to rebase zombies, you can use them as they are. AOS 2nd edition/10th edition may be circle bases only but currently, you can use your existing square bases. Less dense only matters if combat rules stay the same, if it becomes all models in the first 2 ranks swing regardless of b2b, or all models in 6 inches, lower density isn't as important.
 
It was probably said here time and again, but turning it into a skirmish game is just screwing all the people that managed to build big armies.

Gw doesn't care about that last point, Fantasy is being outsold by space marines alone, and has suppossedly been seeing smaller and smaller returns. So GW is trying to overhaul it to make it easier to get into, and attract more customers. If the current player base was sufficient to keep Fantasy afloat, i doubt we would be seeing a huge overhaul like this. Ya it sucks if you have a large army, but the rumors have stated you can still use it, so it's a non issue until we get confirmed rules and more info saying you can't use 8th edition models. This is a new setting that allows smaller games and is claimed to support mass battle, where you can use your current army. So the sky isn't falling yet.
 
@Nicreap 1st post - Yes, but if that's true, that means that my zombies would need at some point to change their bases to still be usable in the current and most popular edition. Of course, that's not confirmed, but even GW doesn't know what GW will do in the future.

And about density - one thing is that looks completely different in the aesthetic sense, and the second thing - even if combatwise the combat between 30 zombies and 30 elves will stay the same, these units will become big and bloted when less dense. That's also something to think about.

2nd post - Unfortunately I am greatly aware of this. Fantasy players partly made this to themselves and partly by the game itself being not as popular as blocky space soldiers. Ech, neckbeard bitterness is flowing out of this post ;) I hope that it would be at least enjoyable to use the new rules while keeping old bases and old unit sizes.

I would even consider starting another army to fit the new system if I hadn't started with orcs half a year ago xD

Let's hope for the best people.
 
I would hope GW was smart enough to make the new system work with old bases/models, I don't expect them to keep the models competetive forever, but I would hope they would be usable to start with, otherwise they will lose a ton of current players who don't want to start a new army. I am excited to see what happens, considering there is only one fantasy player who is also interested in Age of Simar, thigns can only go up at my FLGS in terms of fantasy players.
 
I know, Tomb Kings/Undead legions versus warriors of Chaos, and the occasional OnG gets old quick, on the upside, I know how to smash Warriors of chaos, assuming decent dice rolls. Have no clue how to deal with other armies but that's the fun or tournaments right? :P Too bad 9th rumors showed up or I would have a skaven army to shake things up with.
 
Its not about whether square bases are allowed or not. Of course they're allowed. The issue is that a change to round bases as the default, or even as an option, inevitably means that the defining gameplay elements of past editions of fantasy - facing, wheeling, flanks, the carful art of positioning, the tactical game of jockying for the ideal position, that parts that made fantasy a more tactically involved game than 40k, that stuff is almost certainly gone, because it's all pretty dependent on square bases not just being allowed, but the norm. Required, even.

Maybe the new game will still br good. Maybe it will even be better than what we had before. But even the option for round bases, regardless of whether squares are still allowed, means it certainly won't be the same.
 
Again, Lotr had round bases, and could rank up, like 40k demons can in fantasy, which would then give the brick of infantry a facing, if they balance the way a skirmish formation and ranked formation interacted it could keep that jockying for position, but make the game more dynamic, if skrimishers can charge 360, but have combat penalties when fighting ranked units, it could balance out the fact that ranked units have a facing and foward charge arc.

I think it was Harry of Darnok who posted months ago, that there would be blocks and skirmish formations, where each one would have it's advantages, and that GW was trying to make the units more fluid, so it isn't I sit in the same formation every game no matter what.

##EDIT##

So Darnok Just posted on Warseer that the big block of text is nothing like what he has heard is coming, and that the person who posted it either got a lot of things wrong or made it up, so it seems we don't know anything again hooray!
 
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I agree, that or pictures!!!!

But just having something to discuss and speculate over would build excitement far better than the cone of silence GW employs, the silence is deafening, and I routinely have to fight a lack of motivation to finish my models, even for a tournament I am attending soon, since they may all be invalidated in 3 weeks.
 
FOR WHOM THE BELL TOLLS...no one saw this coming. When you see it, you'll s___ bricks


Taken from Druchii.net



I had the chance to look thoroughly through the proper Age of Sigmar rulebook (the one that consists of three books) yesterday evening. Spent my time with the three books and ignored the novel in favour of the real interesting things. So I cannot fill in the blanks there. But maybe I have the opportunity to look at the rulebook and novel again and hopefully the age of sigmar box, too. But now I have a way clearer picture what’s coming and I’d like to share with you because I am very (!!!) excited, but I cannot provide any photos for obvious reasons. So if you don’t believe me, I don’t blame you. But please don’t attack me personally.

- Title of the rulebook is: Age of Sigmar: a Warhammer strategy game
- first the basics (most of which are already known):
- full fledged rule system; no skirmish game - meaning not restricted to low miniature count: 50 models on average, way lower possible, in general you use units but you can field an army consisting of only single models
- everything is on round or oval bases (there paragraph that explicitly allows legacy and diorama bases, though);
- 2 books: the rules (rules and scenarios) and compendium (pictures, unit cards and fluff)
- there are unit cards for every (as far as I can see) old unit in the second book, including warhammer forge models and most or all special characters. Some units get the full treatment with a small fluff text, pictures of the actual miniatures and rules, some units get only rules with nothing more.
- all new rules with complete new mechanics: think not of 40k 2nd -> 3rd but Warhammer 8th -> Bloodbowl, very compact and fast paced, huge emphasis on individual champions, magic and gods (don’t know how powerful, but these have the most rule pages)
- no photos (and no artworks except some very generic drawings) of new miniatures except a couple chaos and human miniatures that are very likely from the Age of Sigmar box.
- all the races are in, but some are clearly favored. There are few pictures of beastmen and lizardmen for example and some units like steamtanks, gunpowder units (Skaven and new-dwarfs use them still), etc. can only be fielded as mercenaries from a different world or summoned units (in case of most special characters, there is even a picture of a Teclis painted in ghost colors)
- the tech level is between and ancient roman empire and early medieval times, lots of nomadic barbarian tribes, etc. But judging by to the age of sigmar miniatures the armour design draws only a little bit from history and is has a very stylized high-fantasy design instead
- there are lots of different people, races, gods and lots of different alliances. The world is a lot more open minded than the old one, Empire-Orc Alliance would be unthinkable, but a human-waaghkin force is nothing unusual in this setting

Army building
- you pick one or more gods that determine the theurgic or magic schools (don’t know what the difference is, sorry) you can use and how your champions get power-ups during the game. You can take several gods, but they have to be from the same pantheon - so no nurgle-sigmar armies, but Nagash-Morr is possible.Then you choose whichever unit you want - from every race. There is no limit as far as I can tell.
- The only mechanic that I have spotted that limits the useful choices somehow is that most spells and special rules only affect units with certain traits, the powers of Grimgor (magic and gods are always connected, each lore has a patron god that grants the power) affects only mortals or enemy units in the proximity of mortals.
- There are only rules for one pantheon in the rule book, all the other gods and pantheons are only mentioned in the fluff
- Guardians of Regalia, a conglomerate native spirits and gods and lately some new gods, the incarnates Grimgor, Gelt and Nagash, there are thousand of gods and their relevance changes over time and in different regions, but there are seven big gods that have seven schools of magic associated with them and have rules in the book
- Geshemet or Gesheket or something like this (male and female, fertility, natural disaster) is the head of the pantheon, the other six gods are dual pair of good and evil:
two death gods: Nagahs and Morr
two smith and labour gods: Hashut and Gelt
two war gods: Grimgor and Myrmidia
- five other pantheon get a page of fluff each, and additional minor pantheons/deities are mentioned in the fluff. The big five are Chaos, Sigmar, Cuth’adai (elven gods), Exoatl (old ones) and the triumvi-rats (Horned Rat + 2 more)
- all characters can earn favor of their gods and get promoted just like the chaos champions until they reach apotheosis, this is also a huge mechanic in the game + you can field gods or at least their avatars, but only three incarnates have rules in the book

Rules
- there is only one ruleset (don’t know what is in the AoS box, but in the book there is no distinction between skirmish mode and battle mode or something like this)
- rules have nothing to do with the old warhammer rules,
- profile is: Melee, Range, Might, Armour, Initiative, Resolve, Wounds, values from 1-6, lower is better
- simple turn sequence: initiative -> player 1 unit 1 moves, shoots, casts -> p1 unit 2 moves, shoots, casts -> ... -> player 2 moves, shoots, casts -> melee
- players roll always against each other, for example Melee vs Initiative and Range vs Initiative, Might vs Armour
- units regenerate all lost wounds at the end of the phase
- both sides in a melee fight simultaneously, winner can roll to fight instantaneously another round until one side is extinct or one side chooses to break from the combat
- there is no moral system or combat resolution whatsoever, but unit can be bounced back
- units use a 1” 40k formation without any facing
- magic spells are all one-use only, when you use it, you have to discard the card
- you can collect ascension points throughout the game and spend the point to buff your champions, mechanic depends on your god(s)
- unit costs points as before, you are not allowed to field multiple units of the same kind unless the former unit have full strength - there are all kinds of unit sizes from 1-3 to 3-15 (that’s the highest I have seen), but you can field lots of different 1-man units
- you don’t buy champions, a set number of models are automatically upgraded to champions, but you cannot exceed the limit
- there are rules for different weapons, magic items, war engines, monsters, special rules, etc and a large section for scenarios and terrain, larger than the actual rules


Setting
game is set on world Regalia that is connected with other young realms through portals of the old ones. Young realms are realms that were populated by the old creators and were guided on similar historical paths. They were untouched by chaos but this has changed since the arrival of sigmar (as a new faith) and archaon (as an actual emissary in flesh and blood)

there is no explanation (or just a brief one so that I have missed it) how this all came to be, just a description of the history of Regalia (and to a lesser extent some neighbouring realms)

On Regalia is dominated by hundreds of human kingdoms. Fast travel is possible through a number of stone circles that allows mages to open portal from one to another and a system of streams and seas under the earth that can be navigated by ship. There were a long period of peace curated by the Exoatl (Old Ones) that watched over the world from the North and Southpole. But then suddenly new faiths arrived, lots of human tribes started to pray to Sigmar and to conquer their neighbouring kingdoms. These lands are each independent, but are united in their faith to Sigmar. The history ends with the conquering of the Worlds Edge mountains and the crowning of the first emperor. At the same time, the first agents of Chaos arrived and began to corrupt the native people. A part of the Waaghkins rebelled against the old ones in favour of new gods, the Skaven arrived the first time, and in the south and east a death cult began to spread. The world is in turmoil. There are lots of unfinished story hooks so I think the story will be continued, but that might be wishful thinking.

humans are the majority in this world and they have kingdom and tribes everywhere, most of the known earth-inspired regions like cathay are there, but they are not described as fully flegded feudal nations but constantly changing petty empires and nomadic people ruled by warlords and champions of the gods. there are two factions of humans, the worshippers of sigmar and the polytheistic rest, both are not monocultural, but have different skin colors and cultures. Women fight beside men!

The dominion of sigmar is special, because they are the only ones that are reluctant to allow any other race than humans. They have only one god and their goal is to destroy all other gods and conquer their domains - for the greater good of the world of course. This has nothing in common with the Empire of the old world, except the heraldry, griffons are still en vogue. All tribes and city states and kingdoms are independent, the only common ground is their faith, the emperor is only a warlord with the purpose to expands the dominion towards the east. There a still knightly orders, zealots, witchhunters - so they retain some of their medieval flair but there are no state troops. There is no gunpowder, except from some dwarven imports, but they are known for using large warwaggons on their trek to the east. Kislec, Estalia, Araby, city states of Bretonnia, Norse and tribes of the Reiklands are part of the dominion. There are also some enclaves scattered across the world that are connected with magic portals

The Skaven arrived on their own on Regalia and are basically the same. Haven’t spent much time on them. They have now three gods called the triumvi-rat …..

Dawikorr (dwarfs) and Inneadim (elfs) have their own realms that are connected with Regalia. The Inneadim have outposts in America.

Dawikorr are only a legend on Regalia and nobody has seen them, but there are legends that they aid whorshippers of Sigmar in peril. They deliver the dominions of Sigmar with artifacts. They live underneath the world Karak Korr and guard the Soul Mill. Dawikorr have rules, so they can be fielded.

The Soul Mill is a huge machinery that allows minor deities to feed on the power of dead spirits or let them reincarnate or serve them as guardian hosts. It was built by the surviving dwarves of the old world on command of the Incarnates on a older machinery of the old ones. The dwarfs guard the soul mill and are aligned with Sigmar after the shattering of the Incarnates, but are under siege of the skaven that have found their way on this world and managed to steal two mighty souls that formed their new gods.

Inneadim whorship the dreamers, gods that have dreamt themselves, basically the elven gods. They live on their own world and protect the dreamchild. Under Araloth they founded enclaves on Regalia in search for the archelves, lost gods of their pantheon. They are a darker take on the elves, nightmare are as much part of their culture then dreams. They use necromancy and the death god Ynnead is at the centre of their pantheon. But they still live in symbiosis with the nature. The artwork shows an elf on a feathered mount, not like a chocobo, but more like a feathered raptor. the artbook shows pictures (and rules) from all existing elf armies.

Skaven and Dawikorr are the only races that use blackpowder, the rest of Regalia is on stuck on an ancient/medieval tech level. The Exoatl use magic techno gear. There is a certain level of anachronistic gear but it is not steampunk but powered by ancient magic. The only steampunk elements are in the Skaven and to a lesser extent the neo-dwarven fluff.

Chaos has no foothold in the north but is anywhere and consists of corrupted tribes and companies from every region of the world. The barbarian theme of the nomadic tribes is more associated with khorne than with chaos as a whole. Beastmen and demons are likely part of their faction because they are described in the same chapter (both in the fluff and unit cards), but demons can be summoned by everyone, so I don’t know for sure. And beastmen have very few pictures, so that’s a bad omen.

Waaghkins: orcs, goblins and are the servants of the old gods and live in a strict caste system, orcs are the manual laborers. There is a new race called nigmos: a tall and slender priest caste. Waaghkins travel the undersea, a system of flooded caverns that connects the whole world, on longboats and do the dirty work for the Exoatl. There is an artwork of the three different kinds of greenskins (no squigs and snotlings mentioned): an ork in very strange armour, very front heavy, textured like a symmetric turtle shell, he wields is an axe with multiple disc shape blades, goblin looked like a viking but has a futuristic looking handgun, the third was taller than a ork, female, slender - probably a nigmo. But in the photos of actual miniatures only show the old orc style. There is a subfaction of waaghkins that changed allegiance from the old gods to grimgor incarnate and are much more ferocious than their cousins.

undeads, deamons and spirits, and guardian hosts are used by every faction of the game, necromancy but not summoning is common in the dominion of Sigmar. The Inneadim are famous for their use of animated constructs. These things are not a big taboo in Regalia. However the most fearsome necromancers are (obviously) employed by the Empire of Nehekhara (which is not a desolate wasteland and has no egyptian vibe but is a rich and green country and feels more babylonian to me) and their death gods. But there is no Undead faction per se anymore. Vampires are called Necrarchs now.

Guardians hosts are troops that were granted by a god from another realm or the realm of the dead. They are living beings and have free will, but were brought to Regalia on the command of a deity.


- Lizardmen are not gone. There is a race called Servants of the Exoatl that guard the pole portals on flying pyramids, but no drawings and no fluff page (other races and tribess get at least half a page). They get unit cards for their old units (which confirms that they are simply lizardmen with a new name), but instead of beautiful pages with pictures like the rest of the bunch they get a simple list in the appendix of the compendium book.

Beastmen get the same lowkey treatment, but ogres get pictures and all, but I cannot say with which pantheon/faction they align. They are mortal, so you can use them in any the guardians of regalia army, but I don’t know if this is a stop gap solution or not.


Age of Sigmar box content:
Extrapolated from the pictures, they are the only new models. If you think you get 3-5 UNITS for each side, you are wrong. you get 10-15 (haven’t counted) CHARACTERS per side. Each model is really individual and it is in no way possible to field the majority of them as a visual coherent unit. It is late and this summary is long as it is, so I make this brief, but I will come back later and add some info on the miniatures. Chaos looks very similar to the old style except the berserkers, the Sigmarite Force is completely different.

Missionary Force:
3 Knights of the Order of Sigmars Blood, Roman looking armour but more bulky, leather Bands, swords and teardrop-shaped shields, champion is a woman
a pair of vigilantes: Male and female, leathercloaked, tricorn, 2 hand-crossbows
a hand full of heavy armoured warrior with different weapons and cloaks, almost knightly in appearance but completely over the top bulky, some have eagleshaped helmets
One hooded, chainmail wearing, hammer wielding girl
a bulldog
standard bearer: naked, chains that are hooked into the flesh, very archaic looking
one arabic looking guy with a two-handed scimitar and full armour
one guy in rags that wields a chain that burns at both ends, very impractical looking

Chaos Cult:
two outriders, basically chaos barbarians as we know them, but female
~5 berserkers: african looking, no armour, barefeet, clad in cloth stripes, two axes, bald and gaunt looking, not overly muscular, bone chain, both male and female
three pristesses: flowing robes, sacrifical ziggzagged daggers, skullmasks
two armoured harpies with spears and shields, crooked looking, feathered wings
at least five chaos warriors similar in appearance to the old chaos warriors, very dynamic fur cloaks and poses, one of them bigger on a larger base, all male as far as I could see
one large bloodletter, almost twice the size of a human
the leader has armour that looks like a chaos dwarfish, very babylonic, rides a demonwolf, a juggernaut, but with flesh and fur and spikes
some more viking-like infantry but with more chainmail
That’s only a broad description. Every model is highly individual.

Sorry for the chaotic nature of the info, I spent the evening writing this in a very fast manner. This is only the tip of the iceberg and I will come back with a little bit more soon - hopefully in a more ordered fashion. If you have a questions or need specifics and a topic, feel free to ask, maybe I remember something of use.
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We have already been discussing that, so you are a we but late to the party, furthermore, more reliable rumor mongers have stated the author of that is either very wrong in his facts or flat out making it up
 
We have already been discussing that, so you are a we but late to the party, furthermore, more reliable rumor mongers have stated the author of that is either very wrong in his facts or flat out making it up

I hope he's making it up, because it sounds absolutely dire.
 
I don't know. I could potentially live with it, were it true, depending on execution. But it doesn't jive well with what the more reliable rumor mongers have been saying, and it simply seems unlikely that so complete a spoiler would be available yet. GW have been better about keeping a lid on that stuff lately. We'll see.
 
"Vampires are called Necrarchs now."
So the the line of W'soran get the last laugh?
The only thing that really bothers me is the base situation, if I can still use my square based models then all is good.
 
OF COURSE YOU CAN USE YOUR SQUARE BASES.

Games Workshop has literally never forced a base change. Beastmen players were never 'required' to change ungor from 20 to 25 mil bases or back. Space marine players were never required to move their terminators from 25 to 40 mil round bases. 40k players in general were never required to shift their monstrous creatures from square bases to round.

Some tournaments required 'current' base sizes & shapes, and I'm sure if in the future some tournaments will as well, but rebasing has never been required by the rules themselves.

That was never a thing that was going to happen in the first place. Complete upheval of the story? Loss of existing factions up to and including all of them? Existing units left technically playable, but otherwise forgotten about and never updated? Game completely changed? That's all stuff that's possible. Even likely at this point. But "we're going to break into your house and smash all your models if you don't rip them off their bases' was never even the most remote possibility, and I'm kind of frustrated both by people acting like it was, and by people acting like its the only way any of this could turn out bad.
 

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