Age of sigmar

[Emicrania]

If GW for once in their arrogant life,would apologize to release a pricey,horribly unbalanced,horribly written game,maybe they could win some respect back.
Maybe.
I don't know if I'm ready to forgive them yet for closing Eavy Metal thought....
Plus you can talk about sportsmanship how much you want,but one thing is playing fair by the rule,the other one is FOLLOWING them.
" You can play with as much many model as you want"
Is on the rulebook.
Game over.

Now,you can insert another coin and play another,modded, game,but is YOUR choice.
The problem is not how to make a list competitive or fun,the problem is how to actually decide to go out and spend an afternoon, which in the case of people with a job like me is kind of sacrificing something else, and play a game with no kind of structure whatsoever.
Is true you can be a "bad" player with the 8th ed too,but you can still give a fight and try to find a way to give battle to your foe.
Here is completely out of proportion.
If they love 40k so much it just needed to make a 8 lines paragraph where say,for a example thinking about it like...dunno....30 seconds, that for a normal game you can pick up maximum one hero,2 troops,1 elite and one rare.
That's it. No brainy.

 

[Count michael]

@Emicrania Sportsmanship goes out the window what ever the game, mainly because there is always someone trying to win Of course this is just life but you will always get douches who take the most crazy op stuff possible. A good example is a guy at my club who plays warmachine, he is so desperate for wins he will challenge a new player who will usually only have a starter set plus a few extra models, guess what he uses? a khador collossal which is entirely legal though makes it impossible for him to lose. Yes he is following the rules however when is that a excuse for being a jerk it's the same with any game, how would you feel playing a game against someone and they field some unkillable Unit or something it would suck and most likely make you not want to play again especially if you only play limited amount of games anyway

Sure AOS has no limitations yet but I believe later down the track GW will change it especially since all the rules are free to download so it doesn't cost them anything to do so.

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

The feeling I have now is the feeling I had leaving the theater after seeing The Phantom Menace.

 

[Emicrania]

@Emicrania Sportsmanship goes out the window what ever the game, mainly because there is always someone trying to win Of course this is just life but you will always get douches who take the most crazy op stuff possible. A good example is a guy at my club who plays warmachine, he is so desperate for wins he will challenge a new player who will usually only have a starter set plus a few extra models, guess what he uses? a khador collossal which is entirely legal though makes it impossible for him to lose. Yes he is following the rules however when is that a excuse for being a jerk it's the same with any game, how would you feel playing a game against someone and they field some unkillable Unit or something it would suck and most likely make you not want to play again especially if you only play limited amount of games anyway

Sure AOS has no limitations yet but I believe later down the track GW will change it especially since all the rules are free to download so it doesn't cost them anything to do so.

This is what I hope,but I really lost my faith from the etc, price increase,one way communication YouTube channel and this "rulebook".
Cluedo is more complicated and structured.
Also,but this is only personal taste, I really dislike where the painting and sculting is going.
Aside from the new Blood Angels,some tyranids and that latest Nurgle,I highly dislike the products GW are realising. But this is just personsal taste and doesn't match with a rational argument of the nonsense that happened to a 30 years old game.

 

[LordTobiothan]

I never understood the "support a company, then do their job for them" line of thinking. If you like GW models, perfectly fine, buy them, assemble them, paint them, use them.

But don't then spend your time trying to make there half-assed attempt at a game playable just because you like their models or liked their previous work. I don't see anyone trying to write a ruleset for repear minis to support their many fantastic models, but some are doing it for GW at the drop of a hat.

There are plenty of other systems we could be supporting that actually put effort into their design.

 

[Zacharias]

Yeah, Nagash can pretty much raise an army on his first turn, unhindered unless the opponent manages to get a wizard within 18" and even then, Nagash has +3 to his casting. What's that? Summon a balewind vortex and get ANOTHER +1 to casting AS WELL as double the range of spells? 36" summoning? Summon 20 Black Knights right onto the opponents flank? Sure!

1. Summon balewind vortex/fulcrum,
2. Summon Morghasts (+1 to all summoning spells, now you're summoning with +5 to your cast)
3. summon zombies (roll a 6 on two dice to summon 40),
4. summon skeletons (again roll a 6 for 40),
5. summon 20 Black Knights,
6. Summon 10 Blood Knights,
7. Summon 10 Spirit hosts,
8. Gaze of Nagash his most powerful unit.

And that's just your FIRST magic turn of the game.

In fact, the only NON douchebag way of fielding Nagash, what with all this talk of balance, is just to field him on his own. Because by the end of his turn he definitely won't be on his own.

@picture: Probably not Sigmar, more like a Lord Celestant on foot or something?

You forgot raise terrorgheist haha

 

[Tawg]

@El Syf Wouldn't he be wielding THE Warhammer, Ghal Maraz, and not some halberd-looking-thingy?

Ironically the Warhammer is its own monstrous creature that will be released separately.

But that model does look decent, and yay baby gryphon!

If GW for once in their arrogant life,would apologize to release a pricey,horribly unbalanced,horribly written game,maybe they could win some respect back.

Let's be fair, the game is free. The models cost a ton. :ghost: But I see your point if you're more interested in playing games than hobby-ing models.

I still think balance is something that bares more looking into. I am shocked at the lack of math-hammer trying to analyze the game at the moment, because I am sure numbers could display some sort of reflection of what is going on behind the game.

I never understood the "support a company, then do their job for them" line of thinking. If you like GW models, perfectly fine, buy them, assemble them, paint them, use them.

But don't then spend your time trying to make there half-assed attempt at a game playable just because you like their models or liked their previous work. I don't see anyone trying to write a ruleset for repear minis to support their many fantastic models, but some are doing it for GW at the drop of a hat.

There are plenty of other systems we could be supporting that actually put effort into their design.

Well I would assume that all the games that we have the chance to support are ones that were driven by players who desired rule sets to suit their desires. Well some might be half-baked ideas that are based on marketing or selling models, but I would assume that the good games are made by people who love what they are into. By the same token, people building their own rules due to GW's dropping the ball is the type of thing that could end up fostering orphaned players building their game into a system to share with everyone. Likewise players who feel like jilted lovers are free to turn to others to console them, but why suggest that seeking other systems is a better idea than brewing rules to suit your needs, based on AoS or otherwise.

I don't know that I have ever played a game that I have not said "No, that rule is stupid, let's change it to X or Y". It's part of all the games I play, with very few exceptions, namely games that are so simple they don't need to be changed (Carcassonne, or other such simple games).

Honestly, rules modification might be an appeal to some players. Although certainly this does not lend itself to a unified vision of the game that can support tournaments or anything of that like, but all it takes is a group of players to agree on what they thing is best moving forward, share it with each other, and bam, a tournament set is born.

Most major games have tournament circuit rulings that adapt the game to how they feel the game should be played.

 

[Adam_Barrow]

@Sir Geheimnisnacht Dude, haven't seen you in forever! Wish it could be under calmer skies. Good to see you, homie.

 

[Alabaster427]

I like some of the updates, but they definitely take up time to remember them all. The scenery warscrolls are kinda confusing vs the random terrain chart.

I still can't figure out if characters are allowed to join units, but it doesn't look like they can.

Zombies are now one of the best units in the game. A unit of 30 near a CC hits and wounds on 2 AND for every slain model, they can add new zombies, then the banner and the musician are good too.

As I read it, the Sudden Death rule takes effect before the game starts and not at some random point during the game. There are two reasons I think this. One is that it's listed before the game start rules and the second is that if at one point during the game you have more models and your opponent were to decide Sudden Death, then you get less models for whatever reason, you could trigger it? Doesn't make sense for it to be able to go back and forth. So if at the start of the game, one opponent has 33% more, then Sudden Death can occur.

Overall, I think the new game is pretty good, it's just going to be a while before we are familiar with it.

 

[LordTobiothan]

Well I would assume that all the games that we have the chance to support are ones that were driven by players who desired rule sets to suit their desires. Well some might be half-baked ideas that are based on marketing or selling models, but I would assume that the good games are made by people who love what they are into. By the same token, people building their own rules due to GW's dropping the ball is the type of thing that could end up fostering orphaned players building their game into a system to share with everyone. Likewise players who feel like jilted lovers are free to turn to others to console them, but why suggest that seeking other systems is a better idea than brewing rules to suit your needs, based on AoS or otherwise.

I don't know that I have ever played a game that I have not said "No, that rule is stupid, let's change it to X or Y". It's part of all the games I play, with very few exceptions, namely games that are so simple they don't need to be changed (Carcassonne, or other such simple games).

Honestly, rules modification might be an appeal to some players. Although certainly this does not lend itself to a unified vision of the game that can support tournaments or anything of that like, but all it takes is a group of players to agree on what they thing is best moving forward, share it with each other, and bam, a tournament set is born.

Most major games have tournament circuit rulings that adapt the game to how they feel the game should be played.

The problem arises when your homebrew system that may or may not be a success is credited to GW and not to the real creators of the base rules or the community that fleshed them out.

We are basically giving GW a free pass to not work and we'll still promote their game by fixing it and keeping their label/branding.

If you want to make a system, do it and see if others like it, if you want to modify a system, at least pick one that put in a lot of the effort for you so that the free advertising they get from it goes somewhere that deserves it. Fixing the PoS GW dropped on us is basically just fanboying to keep them afloat even if outwardly you might agree they may not deserve it.

 

[Tawg]

The problem arises when your homebrew system that may or may not be a success is credited to GW and not to the real creators of the base rules or the community that fleshed them out.

We are basically giving GW a free pass to not work and we'll still promote their game by fixing it and keeping their label/branding.

If you want to make a system, do it and see if others like it, if you want to modify a system, at least pick one that put in a lot of the effort for you so that the free advertising they get from it goes somewhere that deserves it. Fixing the PoS GW dropped on us is basically just fanboying to keep them afloat even if outwardly you might agree they may not deserve it.

Ahh, I see what the issue you're having is. You just want GW to suffer. But see, from my perspective, the game is a side dish, and the models are the main course. Even before AoS, I viewed the game they produced as incomplete, with rules that needed to be modified to be playable. Granted they were more elaborate so there was more to work with, but at times I would disagree with entire sections of the rules, like Steadfast for instance in last edition. That was a stupid rule, and while I understand the point it had, it was simply not the correct fix for the situation. Plus I played undead, so it didn't even effect me in a possessive light.

But I see what you're concern is at least. I just disagree, because I have always thought their rules systems are trashy and unbalanced. This is the closest they have come to actually balancing a game IMO. Granted, certainly I bought models to participate in the game at times, like especially when I first got into the hobby, to play with friends. But I no longer consider the game the primary motivation to purchase models. I have always viewed GW products in the light of what I enjoy seeing, or the concept behind the army the "Fluff" if you will, but it's always been something they are not entirely in control of. I play have played Undead for a long while, and while there is a fully fleshed out undead lore in GW's.. semi-destroyed universe, it never stopped me from saying my necromancers were X/Y/Z or what ever. Like, even though the rules at points did suggest the units were undead, and at times said they weren't, I always had the idea of my own that they were dead.

But I mean, I feel like your concern is a little unfounded. Because if it is a heavily modified rule-set to bring AoS into line with something that is easier to balance/play without the help of GW, the community will certainly give credit to the people who thought of the rule-set to control it, not GW. And sure, I'll be playing with GW models, but how many people have purchased and played stand-in models from other companies while playing GW branded games? I know many VC players turned to Mantic for their far cheeper (And superior looking) zombies, but we don't confuse KoW with WHFB because of that, nor do I feel bad supporting Mantic over GW when they offer something competitive on the market.

While I don't particularly like the practices of GW, I feel there is a fair bit of.. what's the opposite of Fanboying? Blind hate? Let's just call it Anti-fanboy. I feel like many people hold sentiments of anti-fanboy towards GW. And that may well be founded, but I don't think that playing AoS or crafting enjoyable campaigns based on the system is really fanboy-level devotion to GW.

 

[LordTobiothan]

I dont want GW to suffer, I want the things they do bad to do bad and the things they succeed at to succeed. You like the models, i cant fault you for that GW focuses on quality there, so support them in that.

But in tandem with that you feel the need to help their badly design system just because you use their models? Seems like a strange reason to give random newbies the impression that AoS can be a good system over simply advocating for a better one.

 

[Draykorinee]

While I don't particularly like the practices of GW, I feel there is a fair bit of.. what's the opposite of Fanboying? Blind hate? Let's just call it Anti-fanboy.

Its called a hater, and GW will just shake it off, shake it off.

 

[Theerteen]

The more I read the rules and warscrolls, the more I become attracted to try Kings of War...First time ever I really think about changing the system :/

 

[Zacharias]

Its called a hater, and GW will just shake it off, shake it off.

Comments like that should definitely lead to a one month ban haha

 

[Draykorinee]

Comments like that should definitely lead to a one month ban haha

Ha in my defence my daughter is obsessed with Taylor Swift so I have no choice

 

[The Sun King]

There will be no banning for quoting Taylor Swift!

I was thinking that we as a community could just give points costs to all the warscrolls... would be that hard actually. I just have to playtest the game before I can delve into that.

 

[Sanguinus]

I notice @najo keeps praising its depth in various threads and suggesting people give it try. I'd be interested in an in-depth review from such a respected veteran player as "it's good, trust me" rings just as hollow as those crying "this sucks! RIP WHFB!".

 

[Lord Elpus]

Here's an indepth interview with G.W regarding Age of Siggy played Guitar:
http://captiongenerator.com/48861/Age-of-Sigmar-interview

 

[Seneschal]

From Faeit212

Ielthan wrote:
Shared via Luca Pinsuti
"GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.

This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.

He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.

The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
There will never be points values.

On to the slightly positive stuff then.
They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.

GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.

I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."

 

[Blutsauger]

So what does this mean for our beloved Vampire Counts models?

 

[Seneschal]

My guess is that they will eventually phase out some point after the release of the Death faction models. Just my assumption and welcome to True Blood

 

[Undying Scourge]

From Faeit212

Ielthan wrote:
Shared via Luca Pinsuti
"GW had a guy camped out at the Forge World open day whos entire job was to answer questions and talk to people about Age of Sigmar. His entire job is to go to shows and talk to people about the new game. For the first time I think ever they're taking Age of Sigmar to Gencon, Comic Con, all the major wargames conventions in Europe etc. They're throwing a considerable amount of money at putting this in front of new audiences who have never played fantasy before. He was also brutally honest and didn't dodge any questions and answered everything he could. I'll start with the negative stuff first.

This is it. There categorically will not be a '9th' edition of fantasy. Age of Sigmar is the only thing fantasy related GW will do for the considerable future.

He acknowledges that the 'funny' rules are rather silly and don't make for a great intro to the system for new people. His response was that the armies in the box set don't have the silly rules. They're there as kind of a celebration and final send off of the old warhammer armies, and he said you might notice the new armies don't have the stupid noises or imaginary friends. This is deliberate, its designed that you'll only generally play the old stuff with your mates since it's a bit embarassing to play in a public place.

The new races will look different to the old ones. Ooruks will not look the same as the orcs we currently have. As such, when they get round to releasing Ooruks, the old models will cease production. He did say that you can still use your old models as ooruks, but you won't be able to buy normal orc boys again.
There will never be points values.

On to the slightly positive stuff then.
They are going to fully support all modes of play, and will be releasing rules to balance armies against each other. There will be narrative campaigns where your forces are picked for you for specific missions, and there will be a system for tournament players to balance lists that isn't based on model count. He did not know the specifics of this, but said it is definitely coming.
The rules will always be free. He said that they are very very aware that fantasy had a massive buy in for someone to get started, as such the game was designed with the ability to play it with one box of models. There will be army books, but every rule in them will be available, for free, online. The books will just have extra background info and scenarios.

GW really are trying harder than they ever have before to make this work. If you're at one of the shows go and talk to them. They want to talk to you about this, but especially they want your feedback on it. As he said, this is totally uncharted territory for them and they are totally open to rules revisions as they go.

I forgot probably the best/worst bit. I asked him if he knew that it was possible to win the game first turn with the screaming bell/fateweaver thing. 'Thats deliberate' he said. 'You can do whatever you want in this game, but if you do stuff like that you probably wont have many people to play against."

Wow that's a bombshell of information! I am REALLY looking forward to the new models, especially undead ones. Warhammer's style was good, but it was generic, and with a new visual style they can make something really distinct and standalone.

This info has made me even more excited for Age of Sigmar, but I must say, I doubt undead models will go OOP, since the undead are featured quite strongly in artwork and they have a very prominent place in the fluff from what I have read, as a distinct faction that is distinctly linked to the Old World (since vampires still exist, are immortal, and have probably been around since the time of the Old World). That being said, if they do go fully OOP, then that will change little for me since eBay exists and I already have all my favourite models.

 

[Undying Scourge]

Also this really is a new age for GW - they're being transparent! They're actually answering questions in a direct and honest fashion now! This is brilliant.

 

[Blutsauger]

Oh, thanks! So I should probably stock up on VC models soon then?