Gatti said:
You have never seen a BK bus list have you? My build isn't very different from the typical blender vamp taken by anyone who runs a BK bus. He is the most effective blender lord at 2500 pts. It was also taken by the Maltese ETC Vampire player.
I think I covered this originally, its the points bracket you keep referring to, 2500pts is not the most common points played for warhammer. The vast majority of games I see played are 2000pts or 2400pts In either of those points brackets it isn't a viable build because it is taking up to many points of your lord allowance and not allowing the purchase of a master necromancer who is then giving you access to a different lore. That isn't to say lore of Vampires is a bad lore (I happen to like it) but if I was playing with a competitive mindset I would rather have a master necromancer who was a lvl4 as well.
When I build my
Blender lord I general find I have to drop several items and powers I would like i order to fit everything in. Simply put, for anyone not playing the game at 2500pts, you suggesting of a 450pts + vampire lord before you upgrade his magic levels simply is not viable.
Also, interesting that you say 600 pts is too much for a character when we are discussing killing a daemon prince (fully kitted is just under 600 vps, similar cost as my vamp build).
Daemon princes are not 600pts when kitted out, at the most with wings your are looking at 500pts, with M8 the wings are not a auto include upgarde. The primary difference here is of course you can make a Daemon prince kitted out simply for killing and still fit it into 1500pts, larger games allow for the magic levels. This is very different to the build you suggested, that build requires you to play 2400pts, and then, you are limited to using lore of vampires, unlike the prince, if we assume nurgle then it has access to two lores of magic. Even Nurgle is a very good lore for a daemon prince with the lore attribute alone. With the lore of nurgle one spell can buff the daemon prince up to 6-9, or be used to bebuff your opponents Toughness by D3.
Okay, you're wrong. You are misunderstanding what statistics means. I will rephrase, in 100 rounds of combat, the vampire lord will do 96 wounds to the prince. In 100 rounds of combat the daemon prince will fail beguile 58 times and pass 42 times.
I actually understand the statistics fine, I was in the top class for maths at school
I do remember this bit about round up as well since you don't have 0.X of a dice roll/wound in warhammer.
I purposely left it out because if I included the odds of soulfeeder, I would also have to include the odds of our vampire regaining a wound from lore attribute. Remember, we have much higher capacity to heal our characters than chaos does, and as the daemon prince, on average, will do 1 wound at most to our vampire lord, he will survive two rounds of combat to get back to our magic phase so we can heal him. I left out soulfeeder because it would skew data without considering the effect of magic on our lord. But as I pointed out above, the number of wounds regained by the prince, if we subtract that from the total number of wounds the vampire deals, he still comes out on top over a long time. The math doesn't lie.
You would then also be required to consider the effect of the daemon prince magic, soulfeeder ability doesn't required anything other than wounding a vampire in combat. The only way a vampire can regains wounds is through magic or killing a model. With items such as skull of katan or a spell familiar which increase the chances of channeling the chance of casting successfully is reduce while increasing the chances of the chaos player getting spells they need off.
Through Lore of nurgle it is very possible to have a vampire lord to be hitting a daemon prince on a 5+ and wound on a 5/6+ Of course the nurgle player can choose between wounds and toughness through the lore attribute
wouldn't that be a win? if he charged into a unit of zombies, I would consider that a win for me, personally. Then I could use my vampire elsewhere. He would get no argument from me.
Who said anything about a target pit? I just said weak unit, essentially one he could wipe out through crumble in a turn through stomps, flaming breath and S6 attacks, that could just as easily be a
chaff unit.
You seem to be blind to the fact that a terrorgheist or a death caster isn't exactly left out of most lists. They are there already in 90% of the lists. It isn't adding extra stuff to the list to handle a prince, its using what is already there. The main thing I am suggesting that is added is for beguile to be added on the blender vamp (which many lists already include the vamp without beguile).
I never implied that they wouldn't be in list, I am talking about the percentage of your list that your directing at a single model in a all or nothing approach. With the terrors you are throwing them away unless the daemon prince has moved miles away from the rest of the list.
I forget the exact rolls, but nothing sticks out in my head as abnormally good/bad.
So it isn't data then, it is exactly the same as me talking about how I had a unit of HoC Khorne warriors wipe out most high elf army back when the HE book came out. It simply proves nothing
The math tells us it was an expected outcome.
But it doesn't, it's missing far to many variables, with you basically making excuses for not including things such as soul feeder.
Also, the OP asked for a method to deal with him other than "terror scream and pray!" I would prefer he die to my terrorgheist, however as I have 1-2 turns max before he is charging something (potentially charging something important), my terror may not deal enough wounds before he can charge. That is why I added beguile to my blender vamp (who was already in my army)
All I have simply done is point out what I feel to be flawed, I am more of a shadow debuff fan when it comes to dealing with a daemon prince. Lore of death is good however spirit leech (unless with your vampire lord) doesn't seem like the best option. Depending on marks I would rather use those on things like BSB's to reduce the control he has over frenzy.
Damage limitation does seem like the best option here and using shadow to jump your lord out of combat with the daemon prince.
Well done.
and throw 3 varghulfs at him (or 3 units of 11(alltogether) vargheists) .
