- Sep 23, 2009
- 2,714
I agree that the downgrade of fear was a heavy loss, but the reason why skeletons are so terrible now, where ghouls and grave guard aren't, isn't the fear, it's the changes to the close combat rules. In 7th ed (or any ed before it), attacks from units were relatively limited in number, and higher initiative fighters could clear an enemy's front rank, leaving them unable to fight back. Back in the day, a strong vampire could clear the enemies in base with him, leaving the vamp immune to return attacks, and letting the skeletons win on combat res despite their poor stats, since they were going to take at most two or three return attacks, not enough to overwhelm the vampire's wounds, let alone the skeletons combat res.
Nowadays? No longer can a hero in the unit clear the enemy's front rank, protecting themselves and the skellies. Now, instead of facing three or four return attacks, you'll typically be facing fifteen or more. It's a sea change, a completely different paradigm. The 'thing' that skeleton units used to contribute to an army simply doesn't exist anymore. Now units either need to be tough enough to take dozens of strong attacks, or needs to be able to deal out dozens of such attacks themseles, or they're merely a tarpit. Now, with steadfast and horde rules even tarpits can wear an enemy down, but do we really want to see that from skeletons? 200+ strong units, the way people run skaven slaves? Even so, skeletons are lousier then skaven slaves in a fight, and instability means they won't last nearly as long as the slaves do with their steadfast/bsb/general's leadership.
I'm not opposed to having such a unit available, in theory, but if we had to have one, wouldn't zombies be the better choice? And, if zombies could do that already, wouldn't it be better if skeletons were something else?
Even if we still had autobreak from fear, skeletons would still be pretty terrible, because simply adding them to a fight is almost a guaranteed way to lose combat, and to lose it big enough that the instability wounds will cause significant further damage not only to the skellies but also to any other allied units involved in the combat.
I'm not sure what the answer is, if there even is one. TK skellies had their points cut in half, but on TK forums they're still frequently dismissed as useless. There are whoops you can jump through to make them somewhat functional (tomb king, necrotect, magical buffs), but they're all things generally better spent on other, better units. At least, so goes the common wisdom.
I'm just not sure what the role of skeletons is supposed to be in 8th edition. I hope it's more then tarpits, but maybe not.
Nowadays? No longer can a hero in the unit clear the enemy's front rank, protecting themselves and the skellies. Now, instead of facing three or four return attacks, you'll typically be facing fifteen or more. It's a sea change, a completely different paradigm. The 'thing' that skeleton units used to contribute to an army simply doesn't exist anymore. Now units either need to be tough enough to take dozens of strong attacks, or needs to be able to deal out dozens of such attacks themseles, or they're merely a tarpit. Now, with steadfast and horde rules even tarpits can wear an enemy down, but do we really want to see that from skeletons? 200+ strong units, the way people run skaven slaves? Even so, skeletons are lousier then skaven slaves in a fight, and instability means they won't last nearly as long as the slaves do with their steadfast/bsb/general's leadership.
I'm not opposed to having such a unit available, in theory, but if we had to have one, wouldn't zombies be the better choice? And, if zombies could do that already, wouldn't it be better if skeletons were something else?
Even if we still had autobreak from fear, skeletons would still be pretty terrible, because simply adding them to a fight is almost a guaranteed way to lose combat, and to lose it big enough that the instability wounds will cause significant further damage not only to the skellies but also to any other allied units involved in the combat.
I'm not sure what the answer is, if there even is one. TK skellies had their points cut in half, but on TK forums they're still frequently dismissed as useless. There are whoops you can jump through to make them somewhat functional (tomb king, necrotect, magical buffs), but they're all things generally better spent on other, better units. At least, so goes the common wisdom.
I'm just not sure what the role of skeletons is supposed to be in 8th edition. I hope it's more then tarpits, but maybe not.