Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[darragh]

i really looking forward to new models but does anyone else the get the feeling there going to destroy our magic an weapons/items in terms of spells magic items an spells i think we have it pretty good at the min

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

i really looking forward to new models but does anyone else the get the feeling there going to destroy our magic an weapons/items in terms of spells magic items an spells i think we have it pretty good at the min

I know what you mean. I reckon they will reshuffle a few.

Krells axe. They will make this unique to krell instead of army option

Hand of dust. I reckon this will be a spell instead of item.

Frostblade. Reckon this may be the expensive weapon to stay, but change wording to heroic killing blow instead. Maybe no armour saves either?

Helm of command. I feel this must stay. We rely on it a lot

Hoff banner. Might go, if not I reckon 25pts cheaper since it don't stack with wards.

 

[Zhatan]

i really looking forward to new models but does anyone else the get the feeling there going to destroy our magic an weapons/items in terms of spells magic items an spells i think we have it pretty good at the min

I know what you mean. I reckon they will reshuffle a few.

Krells axe. They will make this unique to krell instead of army option

Hand of dust. I reckon this will be a spell instead of item.

Frostblade. Reckon this may be the expensive weapon to stay, but change wording to heroic killing blow instead. Maybe no armour saves either?

Helm of command. I feel this must stay. We rely on it a lot

Hoff banner. Might go, if not I reckon 25pts cheaper since it don't stack with wards.

You think they will make hand of dust a spell again? I used to use that all the time when it was a spell as it was awesome. Can't say how many enemy characters I killed with it but it was alot. Haven't used it once since it became a magic item.

Agree that frostbladse will stay... not sure how I feel about it as I feel its too expensive and I almost never use it.

HoC. I hope that if it stays they redo it so it is less op. Sure as it is now we rely on it but my hope is that after the new book we won't have to.

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

i really looking forward to new models but does anyone else the get the feeling there going to destroy our magic an weapons/items in terms of spells magic items an spells i think we have it pretty good at the min

I know what you mean. I reckon they will reshuffle a few.

Krells axe. They will make this unique to krell instead of army option

Hand of dust. I reckon this will be a spell instead of item.

Frostblade. Reckon this may be the expensive weapon to stay, but change wording to heroic killing blow instead. Maybe no armour saves either?

Helm of command. I feel this must stay. We rely on it a lot

Hoff banner. Might go, if not I reckon 25pts cheaper since it don't stack with wards.

You think they will make hand of dust a spell again? I used to use that all the time when it was a spell as it was awesome. Can't say how many enemy characters I killed with it but it was alot. Haven't used it once since it became a magic item.

Agree that frostbladse will stay... not sure how I feel about it as I feel its too expensive and I almost never use it.

HoC. I hope that if it stays they redo it so it is less op. Sure as it is now we rely on it but my hope is that after the new book we won't have to.

The tomb kings idea with whatever unit he joins has his ws, was awesome. And yes, hand of dust spell was fun, I bopped an emporer black dragon with it. Master necro for the win.

Making it spell again helps get rid of one of our many items, which is inevitable.

I wish we could get the innocent lost bloodline back. Awesome. Roll a 5+ to see if you can bring yourself to hit my pretty vamp face, now roll to hit. Then to wound. Was awesome.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

On Magic Items- I have 3 words for you: The. Flayed. Hauberk.

Probably the most frequently taken magic item for me! (even more so than blood drinker!)


p.s. Still no word from my mate about his source

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

On Magic Items- I have 3 words for you: The. Flayed. Hauberk.

Probably the most frequently taken magic item for me! (even more so than blood drinker!)


p.s. Still no word from my mate about his source

U made it up didn't u !! Lol

 

[N.I.B]

I'm sure it can't be news by now that GW are trying a policy were they clamp down hard on rumour leaks and news beforehand, to make us focus more on the current releases. And I can't fault them really, at least I think they sell more WD copies thanks to that.
WD hasn't had the 'coming-next-month' ad in the back of the paper for some time now, so I don't know why you were expecting them to make an exception for VC.

I haven't heard anything about VC special characters, but I hope the new army book isn't evolving around them like in 40K. I don't know any Fantasy tournament that allows special characters, and until that change they're dead to me.

 

[darragh]

its probably extremely likely that magic items are going to get a big hit as well as our magic as its happened to every army redone recently im extremely worried to whats going to magic especially i always have a strange hunch phil kelly is the author when they released 8th ed rulebook they said it was to be the great leveller an this theme seemed to continue with every new army book release since i can see lots of our spells dropped an replaced to echo tomb kings though probably a little stronger were sure to get new models as more models equals more cash for gw id expect to see alot an end up being released in waves with big intervals in between like beastmen who only got their second wave now

 

[Hanblack Nagash]

I reckon the dreadlance will go. Can't see the balefire lance surviving either

 

[Stealthman]

earlier on, someone was saying that they better not take the von carstein characters away from us, i just wanted to point out that vlad, konrad and mannfred all fairly recently came out in finecast. it wouldnt be smart for GW to change them over if they were discontinued.

 

[Mioum]

Got a little info from Warseer (very little one really). Harry (for those who read Warseer know that Harry is a reliable guy) let a little snipet in a Empire discussion.

At some point, this link showed up. It's an old-ish picture of Empire models, some now released, some still unreleased. People talked about wanting the unreleased figures, especilly the woman, to wich someone said;

I'd say the odds of GW releasing the "Empire prostitute" model are fairly slim.

To wich Harry replied ;

You haven't seen the coven throne yet, have you?. :shifty:

: D

So that imply that the model have something to do with female, wich only add weight that the big dual kit will be more-or-less Necrarch and Lahmia themed (to go with the dragon/terrorgheist being Blood Dragon/Strigoi)! That makes me quite happy as I have a Lahmian theme VC army, so that makes a second kit for wich I might have interest with the new book release

 

[_Revan_]

On Magic Items- I have 3 words for you: The. Flayed. Hauberk.

Probably the most frequently taken magic item for me! (even more so than blood drinker!)

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. The big reason for the consolidation of Magic Items is because many similar/duplicate items are being folded into the Rulebook, hence fewer army-specific ones.

Considering that the Armor of Silvered Steel is an identical item, I don't see it likely at all that the Flayed Hauberk will stay.

I do agree with you though, its an item I use constantly, but I may end up moving to the Glittering Scale armor (since most of my Vampires are not too combat oriented).

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

On Magic Items- I have 3 words for you: The. Flayed. Hauberk.

Probably the most frequently taken magic item for me! (even more so than blood drinker!)

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening. The big reason for the consolidation of Magic Items is because many similar/duplicate items are being folded into the Rulebook, hence fewer army-specific ones.

Considering that the Armor of Silvered Steel is an identical item, I don't see it likely at all that the Flayed Hauberk will stay.

I do agree with you though, its an item I use constantly, but I may end up moving to the Glittering Scale armor (since most of my Vampires are not too combat oriented).

Is that so they *SPARKLE* in the light? XD

"My Chaos Lord goes to hit your vampire"
"Ah ha! My Vampire sparkles at you, -1 to hit, fool!"
XD

 

[Maldorien]

So that imply that the model have something to do with female, wich only add weight that the big dual kit will be more-or-less Necrarch and Lahmia themed (to go with the dragon/terrorgheist being Blood Dragon/Strigoi)! That makes me quite happy as I have a Lahmian theme VC army, so that makes a second kit for wich I might have interest with the new book release

I hope that with these dual kits they also make something von Carstein specific, something like the Black Coach but with a real vampire in it to fight.

That's my hope, really. I love the von Carsteins and with the return of the Bloodlines (which is a big plus because I like variety in an army) I don't want them to be pushed in some kind of dark corner of our new Armybook.

 

[Uziel]

That's my hope, really. I love the von Carsteins and with the return of the Bloodlines (which is a big plus because I like variety in an army) I don't want them to be pushed in some kind of dark corner of our new Armybook.

I share your hope here Maldorien. Personally not the biggest Von Carstein fan, but they really need to come forth as more than just "the average" of all Vampire Bloodlines. If that is all they are, they would not be so dominating amongst their own kind. They need the same "overhaul" as all the other bloodlines.
I read somewhere that the Choas Space Marines will get the original Legions back, and that each legion would get some more individual attention. Even though this has little to do with fantasy as such, it makes me more positive as far as the return of the proper bloodlines go. If they've figured that that the "vanilla" CSM consept was a bad idea, they might have realized the same as far as the Sylvania exclusive army, and returning to the stronger and more iconic fluff material available that is the Bloodlines. It is enough to make me hopefull at least.

 

[Pladvoncarstein]

Why is everyone saying they need to fix crumbling. How overpowered do you want our army. Yes our troops crumble when they lose but its a dam sight better then a unit that flees combat and is caught. I would rather lose a few extra troops then a whole unit. Ive had a unit of 100 zombies hold up a unit of 40 saurus warriors for like 4 turns. I think we are still one of the most overpowerd armies out there. So of the vampire builds are extremly powerful. Im bored of always winning and I dont even use deathsatrs.
Changes I would like is

lose spell spamming
lose helm of command
lose drakenhoff
make skelies cheaper or better
and make certain powers so they cant be picked together
nerf ghouls
lose all ethereal or nerf them

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

Why is everyone saying they need to fix crumbling. How overpowered do you want our army. Yes our troops crumble when they lose but its a dam sight better then a unit that flees combat and is caught. I would rather lose a few extra troops then a whole unit. Ive had a unit of 100 zombies hold up a unit of 40 saurus warriors for like 4 turns. I think we are still one of the most overpowerd armies out there. So of the vampire builds are extremly powerful. Im bored of always winning and I dont even use deathsatrs.
Changes I would like is

lose spell spamming
lose helm of command
lose drakenhoff
make skelies cheaper or better
and make certain powers so they cant be picked together
nerf ghouls
lose all ethereal or nerf them

I agree to an extent that we don't NEED to fix crumbling- but what we do need to fix is how steadfast effects our troops- as currently, steadfast effects everyone else in a positive way, while our VC are left out in the cold... That is what I am hoping for.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

In effect what you just said is that you want our army bent over and nerf spanked.....

We need choice and we want our bloodlines back, we want to be able to shave some fun with our armies again and not just be same old same old all the time.
The Crumbling does need tweeking, characters and things with the vampire rule need their immunity back.
Nothing else, the fact is far to many people lose so much to a simple combat rez, Mannfred dies, why?
Because I charged, had 3 ranks and a banner, no wounds caused.......
Yeh, that seems fair, imortal champions of darkness beaten to death with math......

The only thing you have said you wanted was cheaper skellies, everything else you want to see ruined.
If you win every match thats you thing, just find a more powerful oponent or fight some different armies.

 

[Zhatan]

Why is everyone saying they need to fix crumbling. How overpowered do you want our army. Yes our troops crumble when they lose but its a dam sight better then a unit that flees combat and is caught. I would rather lose a few extra troops then a whole unit. Ive had a unit of 100 zombies hold up a unit of 40 saurus warriors for like 4 turns. I think we are still one of the most overpowerd armies out there. So of the vampire builds are extremly powerful. Im bored of always winning and I dont even use deathsatrs.
Changes I would like is

lose spell spamming
lose helm of command
lose drakenhoff
make skelies cheaper or better
and make certain powers so they cant be picked together
nerf ghouls
lose all ethereal or nerf them

The problem with crumbling is that the mechanics of it make alot of our troops worthless.Zombies are so crappy that you almost always loose double the amount of them as they are unlikely to kill anyone.

Add to that the crumblin affects every unit in the combat you can loose alot of valuable troops if you are not careful.

And you say 100 zombies held against 40 saurus warriors for 4 turns?
That is 400 points of throw away troops. How many warriors did you zombies kill during that time and how many PD did you throw at them to keep them up?

Assuming horde formation you would get 40 attacks against you from them of which about 27 would hit. About 23 of them would then proceed to wound. Zombies get 30 attacks back, 10 will hit and mayby 2 wounds.
But the warriors can have standard and you cannot so that means zombies suffer an extra 22 wounds and looses 44 models in one round of combat.

I agree that VC is a good army but only if you only use a few units that we have that are good and forget about the rest.

 

[Mioum]

Crumbling is the way it is, and I don't expect anything in the VC book to change it. Crumbling is quite a nerf in 8th edition, yet Tomb Kings didn't get anything to compensate for it. They got 4pts Skeletons, but it wasn't enough to make them worth it, they are still viewed as the worst core option in the book.

So for the VC, I can expect a point drop for Skeletons (Zombies get a change of stats and rules everytime so it's harder to predict), but nothing else to counter crumbling, unless GW really want to allienate the Tomb Kings players my making the VC undead better.

 

[Zhatan]

Crumbling is the way it is, and I don't expect anything in the VC book to change it. Crumbling is quite a nerf in 8th edition, yet Tomb Kings didn't get anything to compensate for it. They got 4pts Skeletons, but it wasn't enough to make them worth it, they are still viewed as the worst core option in the book.

So for the VC, I can expect a point drop for Skeletons (Zombies get a change of stats and rules everytime so it's harder to predict), but nothing else to counter crumbling, unless GW really want to allienate the Tomb Kings players my making the VC undead better.

Agreed that we most likely won't see any change to crumblin and that is ok as long as they make a big enough change to out units. It's the combination of poor expensive units and crumbling that make them unusable. Skeletons at a resonable cost would make me use them instead of- or in combination with ghouls. Zombies however need more than just a cost change to viable imo.

 

[Pyre]

Why do people keep mentioning nerfing ghouls? They're pretty standard infantry and only look good because they're standing next to Tweedledee and Tweedle"I-wouldn't-pay-one-point-for-that!" Improve skeletons and leave ghouls alone, and you'll see a much more even mix.

As for crumbling, no I think the rule is fine if the army is updated. Give our troops some vague hope of winning and it won't be a big deal, but as it stands any unit not fronted by some character has NO chance (maybe Grave Guard, depending). No other army, except maybe TK, have that issue. Steadfast makes infantry blocks hard to just shatter, and it means you have to kill a lot of them. Unstable means units are going to fall apart twice as fast. The whole unbreakable argument has no real game play merit, since most blocks these days are getting re-rolls off of the BSB and probably the general's leadership meaning they're getting nines with a re-roll. Sure it happens, but the odds are against it to the point where Unstable looks really bad in comparison.


Pyre

 

[Vlad the Acolyte]

Harry has blessed us with a description of the Mortis Engine over on warseer:

"Ethereal alter type thing ... with added ghosts."

Sorry for ripping off your good work Harry!

Sounds a little bit like Indianna Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark...

 

[maxtoreador]

I think we're just getting into a damned near endless battle of Skellies suck vs unstable bites... but heres my 2c anyway. I think this sums up the issue as I see it now:

My GF plays skaven and I noticed the similar stats between their Clanrats and our skellies so I decided to compare the two. 20 of each, shields, light armor, full command, but no magic banners. Skellies are 200pts so 10pts ea, the Clan rats however are 120pts or 6pts each. The rats are 40% cheaper, so you'd think their stats are less... nope +1 movement, WS, BS(not that it matters... still), and +2 Init and Leadership. Do the rats have some nerf in special rules? Nope. Do the skellies have some nice buff? Well let's look; Immunity to psych, unbreakable, and able to be rezzed... aka undead. First two of those are damned near negated by strength in numbers and steadfast working on Clanrats. IoN rezzing... with 8th ed dispells? Pft you're kidding, not worth +10% much less the +40% points cost.(My opinion but I think it's shared with most VC.) So far it looks like we pay quite a bit more for slightly less, then you add in unstable... 40% suddenly looks like 90%. If you try balancing Skellies just via points redux they'd cost so little we'd fill our deployment zone with our minimum core. One way or another they do need a point drop similar to TK skellies; but they also need either a retooling of unstable, stat buff, and/or special rules/abilities. Other than a points drop(which the TK have) all other fixes will need to be 'retconned' for TK too.

One way or another expect a partial but not complete fix to skellies in new book, the complete fix aint gonna happen unless a person with enough b@ll5 to stir the pot gets power at GW.

 

[Vengeance Crusader]

I am just hoping that 'hand of dust' becomes a sexual innuendo with the release of our new book, just like in 40k how you have the good old' 'wailing doom'