Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[Sanai]

Im not a fan of the black coach mini, no matter the material, but if I were to buy it, I would prefer finecast as such a large metal mini would be a pain (also, I would insist on converting it, which would be hell with metal).

Its a moot point though, if I do include a black coach in my army, it would be converted from hexwraith steeds and a mordheim stage coach or the mortis engine bone cage turned on its length an mounte on corpse cart wheels.

 

[Zhatan]

Yeah I just sold my old metal coach as I hate the model. Will make my own if it turns out I want one once the book comes out.

 

[Sanai]

Could always just make an undead chariot and use the rules for a black coach

 

[SotF]

Yeah I just sold my old metal coach as I hate the model. Will make my own if it turns out I want one once the book comes out.

Which is why I've been using one of these for my black coach

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

That is a bloody nice model that is, not often I am tempted by none GW stuff either.
Fell bats were already dead in the water, they were weak and ugly, doubling the cost to buy them is not going to do them any favors.

I have been considering combining the mortis engine with the empire land ship to make one, hell it would be heavy and expensive but I think it would look great.

 

[HERO]

New info from the front!

Spirit hosts at 22,5 skavenslaves
Tomb Banshees 47,5 skavenslaves (hero)
Cairn Wraith 30 skavenslaves (hero)
5 bloodknights with full command at 142,5 skavenslaves
Vargheists 23 skavenslaves
Fellbats 8 skavenslaves
Varghulf and dire wolves unchanged
Bloodknights seem to have flag of bloodkeep as an upgrade option
Mortis engine at 120 skavenslaves
Command options on zombies 2,5 skavenslaves
lvl 2 necro 50 skavenslaves
Bat swarm 17,5 skavenslaves
6 crypt horrors with haunter at 164 skavenslaves

Regarding grave guard WD lists 19 of them with full command and banner of the barrows at 144,5 skavenslaves.

I'm not sure how much of this is floating around in the thread already, but here's some more prices;
10 black knights with full command, barding and lances clocking in at 145 skavenslaves.

5 hexwraiths with champ at 80 skavenslaves.

Most options are in there though its hard to pin exact costs on most stuff.

Looking at those costs of GG

I'd guess
Grave guards are 5,5 slaves
Command is 15 slaves
Banner of the barrows is 25 slaves...

That also means Black Knights are 26ppm for a fully armored Knight with a magical Lance and KB.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Thats good value for Black Knights and Hex wraiths right there.
Still blood Knights are as over priced as ever, unless their stats and rules have seriously changed they are going to remain a display piece.

With the Banner of Blood Kneep being for them though it does give hope we have retained Drakenhof Banner.

 

[HERO]

Thats good value for Black Knights and Hex wraiths right there.
Still blood Knights are as over priced as ever, unless their stats and rules have seriously changed they are going to remain a display piece.

With the Banner of Blood Kneep being for them though it does give hope we have retained Drakenhof Banner.

At 285, the new Blood Knights are 40 points cheaper than they currently are if you take 5 in Full Command. That's almost 1 Blood Knight less!

Maybe Banner of Blood Keep got reduced down to 50 points? That would make a unit of 5 with Flag a great deal compared to they are now.

I would like them to get at least I5, but who knows what will happen

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Unless there is a rule change on them, better armour and 1 more initiative or they have become 2 wounds each its still over the top.

 

[HERO]

Unless there is a rule change on them, better armour and 1 more initiative or they have become 2 wounds each its still over the top.

Just for perspective..

4x Mournfang (Ironfists) = 360
Full Command
Dragonhide Banner

On the charge, they put out 4d3 S5 impact hits, 16 WS3 S5 attacks, 13 WS3 S4 attacks, re-rolls all 1s to hit, wound and failed armor saves, has a 2+ armor save with parry and is T4 with 3 wounds each. If I want the unit I'm holding onto to stay still, I just pop the Dragonhide Banner's S3 breath attack and everyone that gets hit is striking last next turn. Ridiculous.

5x Blood Dragons = 360
Full Command
Flag of Blood Keep (assuming it's still 75)

On the charge, they put out 16 WS5 S7 attacks. They have a total of 5 wounds, are T4 and have Frenzy. No re-rolls of any kind, but they have a 4+ ward vs. all things shooting.

4x Mournfangs is the hardest hitting cavalry in ALL of Warhammer. They have 12 wounds in a unit of 4 where as Blood Dragons only have 5. They put out more attacks, have impact hits and have a ridiculous banner on top of that.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

then that just goes to show they are either highly over pointed or under powered when compared to others.

Yes Blood Knights hit like a hammer but the save is negligible on a model that expensive and they are too slow at Initiative 4, they need something to sweeten the deal and crumble down away with.

 

[N.I.B]

My 2 cent -

All command models are 10 points, except Zombie command (Zombies aren’t viable unless changed).

Characters
Lvl 2 Necromancer 100 points. (Why on Earth would I want a lvl 2 necro, unless the ability to buy spells are gone? Not a good sign. )
Tomb Banshees 90 points, no change.
Cairn Wraith heroes 60 points, no change.

Core
Bat Swarms 35 points, no change. (Not viable unless changed).
Spirit hosts 45 points, much cheaper. (Awesome if we can take them as 1 base units).
Dire Wolves 8 points as before.


Special
Vargheists 46 points.
Crypt Horrors 53 points. (Sounds overpriced).
Hexwraiths 30 points.
Fellbats 16 points. (But the flying pigs are doubled in real money for some inexplicable reason).
Grave Guards 11 points. (One point cheaper but I expect more expensive great weapon upgrade to land them around 13-14 points. Hope I’m wrong ‘cause without Helm or 4+ reg they don’t cut it against enemy elite infantry. They need access to some buff).
Black Knights with barding at 26 points. (2 points cheaper than before, nice).

Rare
Mortis Engine 240 points. (Feels overpriced).
Bloodknights 51 points. (As earlier rumours had them. Overpriced unless changed, double so if Vanhels charge is gone).

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I am also asuming thats the mortis engine without its upgrade option?
So far it looks like we have got allot of high point cost models and lost allot of good gear.
I have seen great models but rule wish I see only things worsening or negligible improvements at best, yeh the entire reason I did not take blood knights before was because I wanted to save 20 points over 5 models so I could take an extra 2 ghouls......

 

[TMS]

Crypt Horrors 53 points. (Sounds overpriced).

Crypt horrors will be a little bit less than that per model. A unit of 6 with a unit champion costs 238 points. Edit: If the price for the champion upgrade will be the same as it is for TK's ushabti then the horrors will cost 38 points per model.

Edit: And the Mortis Engine with its upgrade will be 240 points.

 

[TMS]

By the way, I just found a mentioning of Black Coaches in the new WD. Looks like we're keeping them for another round.

 

[HERO]

Black Knights with barding at 26 points. (2 points cheaper than before, nice).

But we still don't know whether they kept their ethereal movement

Double at the Blood Knights being 50 pts (confirmed) (the Champion is a little more than 10).

 

[N.I.B]

Of course we are keeping the Black Coache, they've been confirmed to go finecast weeks ago. And I think it's like 10 years since GW discontinued any unit in Fantasy.

Crypt Horrors 53 points. (Sounds overpriced).

Crypt horrors will be a little bit less than that per model. A unit of 6 with a unit champion costs 238 points. Edit: If the price for the champion upgrade will be the same as it is for TK's ushabti then the horrors will cost 38 points per model.

6 crypt horrors with haunter at 164 skavenslaves

164*2 = 328. -10 for champ = 318. Divided by 6 models = 53.

 

[TMS]

6 crypt horrors with haunter at 164 skavenslaves
164*2 = 328. -10 for champ = 318. Divided by 6 models = 53.

The new WD has a sample list with a unit of 6 + champion, listed as 238 points. WD have gotten things wrong before, but I think they're in the right here.

 

[N.I.B]

So HERO's source was wrong. Wouldn't surprise me, as I said 53 points sounds overpriced. And now I think about it, Warseer had them at 38 points several days ago, I even reported in them to CN in that range and we have them at the first page in the compilation thread

Brief summary at this point -

Things are starting to shape up a bit, rules-wise.

Core - looks weak and disappointing, but some tactics open up with Zombies able to be joined and Dire Wolf counting to core.
Special - here's were it's at! Hexwraiths! Vargheists and Black Knights all sound good.
Rare - Terrorgheist feels solid, but we don't know much if/how the old stuff has changed, Black Coach, Varghulf, Wraiths and Banshees.
Vampiric powers/magic items - not bad really. The most OP items are gone though. Lord upped to 5 attacks is a compensation for losing Infinite Hatred I assume the net average result should about the same (or probably a bit less). A5 together with affecting great weapons makes Red Fury very good. Throw ASF on him and he strikes at I7 with 5-10 (probably rerollable) S7 attacks.
Or for those times when you absolutely have to kill every last mother fcker in the room - Sword of Bloodshed, Red Fury. Gulp a potion of strenght, sprinkle ASF for rerolls and you have a potentially 16 S8 attacks bringer of DOOM!

Still, Ghoul core up front, Skellie caster bunker. Zombies stays on the shelf.

 

[HERO]

I just had a good hearthy read through the White Dwarf and discovered a few more tidbits. Most has been covered, but there are a few diamonds hidden. Befor you ask, no, I don't have a WD and therefor, no more pictures. I just took some notes. Smartphones should be forbidden.

First of all: A promotion for dreadfleet. (I am working on my public speeches abilities and I learned you should start with a joke.)(Disclaimer: I don't mean that dreadfleet itself is the joke- I love the game, but I am a little sick of all the promotion.)

6th Vampire Spell for example uses the small template. Each unit hit suffers D6 S3 hits per rank it has, which ignore armour saves.
Lore attribute allows to heal characters. I think this was covered already.

Invocation of Nehek affects ALL undead units within 6". You can boost the effect to 12 or 18 ".

Raise Dead allows to summon up to 15 Zombies or Skelletons.

The Corpse Cart provides ASF to all undead units if it is targetted or affected by a vampiric Spell.

Blood Knights have 3 S7 Attacks while charging - Frenzy included.

More stuff.

All this is taken from Warseer btw, don't blame me!

So HERO's source was wrong. Wouldn't surprise me, as I said 53 points sounds overpriced. And now I think about it, Warseer had them at 38 points several days ago, I even reported in them to CN in that range and we have them at the first page in the compilation thread

Which makes me think.. what else can he be wrong about? A couple of days ago, Blood Knights, 5 of them in Full Command came out at 250 points they said. Now all of a sudden they're 285. Makes a notable difference

 

[El Syf]

Any news on Blood Knights other stats? They had all that anyway, I5 would be good!

 

[HERO]

Any news on Blood Knights other stats? They had all that anyway, I5 would be good!

Nope, none of that. But now a second source has confirmed that Blood Knights w/ Full Command is 285 points.

119 slaves for the crypt horrors is right. 5 blood knights with full command but without a magic banner is 142,5 slaves.

That means.. 50 for each Knight, 10 for each upgrade and 15 for the Champ :O If the cost of the Champ was 10 points, then 51 points for Knight (which doesn't really make that much sense to me, why 51?). But I would expect +1A on the Champ, probably +1 Ld or even +1 WS to compensate for the 5 extra points spent.

No price on the Flag of Blood Keep though; all we know is that it exists as an upgrade for the Blood Knights.

Newest update:

And for those wondering, the flag of blood keep will be 37,5 slaves. A familiar number.

75 points, great D:

 

[TMS]

No price on the Flag of Blood Keep though; all we know is that it exists as an upgrade for the Blood Knights.

The flag would be 75 points still. A unit of 5 blood knights with full command and the flag is 360 points.

 

[HERO]

More stuff from WS:

You can only spot the final spell in the new WD, unfortunately. However, the casting values for the entire lore is 6+, 6+, 8+, 9+, 9+, 12+ & 15+.

Also, Hellish Vigour makes a return, though no details about it are given. However, it is written that it, VDM and IoN are the easiest to cast.

 

[HERO]

No price on the Flag of Blood Keep though; all we know is that it exists as an upgrade for the Blood Knights.

The flag would be 75 points still. A unit of 5 blood knights with full command and the flag is 360 points.

Hi, I'm BEARO on WS

It appears that I'm literally sharing the same info that you're putting up there on this forum. Here's an example of us talking to eachother without noticing that we're on the same forum and sharing the same avatar:
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6006930&postcount=3091

Hahahaahha

:devil2: