Official Rumour Thread: New Vampire Counts Book

[Hanblack Nagash]

Can i ask everyone, does anyone think they will take the lose all attacks and have one attack with heroic killing blow bloodline?

seems abit risky considering you would need a 6 to wound....not too bad in a fulcrum game combined with the dice i suppose in a unit of GG
obviously only if vamp is going against something stupid lol otherwise 5 attacks would be preferred choice

 

[Zhatan]

Can i ask everyone, does anyone think they will take the lose all attacks and have one attack with heroic killing blow bloodline?

seems abit risky considering you would need a 6 to wound....not too bad in a fulcrum game combined with the dice i suppose in a unit of GG
obviously only if vamp is going against something stupid lol otherwise 5 attacks would be preferred choice

I don't think I will ever take that no. It has far to low chance of success.

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

yes those are good things but allot of what you listed there "The Dead of Night" is yet to be confirmed.
Also where before we had to take a trait for gear, it was annoying but it was doable, its not a earth shaking change, just something that should of happened long ago.

Your listing new units though, I was talking rules, not the new stuff, shiny things can wait and for the time being are irrelevant as we were saying what rules, gear and traits we have lost and the poor replacement selection, its like an early bird special in a funeral parlor.

"Keep in mind that Banshee and Wraith heroes" Its just them grabbing things out of the old book, nothing new.

Losing a deathstar is not good when this edition is still focused around huge deathstar units, apart from our most viable troop being increased in points, a bit cav and a couple new monsters nothing has changed, most of the monsters are hard to be able to use as it stands anyway and some you have to base our entire list around to make it work.

I want to see what the new gear is but as it stands apart from the new awesome models I am let down, I also may get a leather cover on my rule book to hide the vamp on the front, it offends my eyes....



Also I will mention allot of the stuff we are getting is massive and hard to use on a board to move about due to its base size, taking that into account with the new marching restrictions and we may be in trouble, especially when it comes to marching Cav up flanks.

"Zombies are S3 T3 now.
CC is a chariot and gained a wound.
Lords start at lvl 1 and have A5.
Blood Knights have I5.
Varghulf is no longer a vampire it seems , but has I4.
GG lost the wight blade , but gained killing blow."

Zombies are still useless unless summoned however unless crumble has been drastically changed.
CC has also lost its bound spell...... So without this even with improved strength it has suffered greatly.
Lords are good I will give you that but I will need to see and reserve judgement till then.
Blood Knights being faster is good but still very expensive and not usable competitively, though I will certainly take the new knights.
What the hell is a Varghulf then or have they changed it entirely lore and all?..... Never heard such rubbish.
GG in effect have not lost anything then as they have Killing blow still.

So vamp lords cast more but we have 1 less wizard level...........
Did GW have the same guy who works out the new prices do the points cost in our book becayuse that just sucks.


"Can i ask everyone, does anyone think they will take the lose all attacks and have one attack with heroic killing blow bloodline?"

Cast ASF and the lore of fire spell that adds 1 to your roll, now use the magical item that makes dice count as another number and change 4's to 5's.
This will allow you to pass it on a 4+ with a re roll to hit.
Have fun with that one.

 

[cheb]

Does anyone know what stats the Hex Wraiths might have?

 

[Bune]

Uhh my first post is a rambling one.
i am totally psyched about the new VC, i have been collecting them since the undead were split up.
Im looking forward to the new different builds you can make since you could only really make 2 competitive builds with the current book

knight deathstar and double GG slugfest..

Your Vampire can still Reach level 4 now without using bloodline points i really like that.
Also Vampires are at least able to buy HA, Shield now.
Also the Strigoi Ghoul king is apparently able to take magic items i was not counting on that. im looking forward to seeing what his setback is then.

Also zombies 3 points and T and S 3 Hello good old bunker like in 6th.
Someone wrote something about the Hexwraiths stats, they are not shown anywhere but in the battle report they are charged by a big unit of he spearmen and beat them. so they must at least have 2 or 3 attacks each to win that combat since the He come in with 5 Static Res.

-Bune

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

The downside to the ghoulking would be that it is more expensive and probably cant take magic armour as it probably doesnt have an option for mundane armour.

 

[Bune]

The downside to the ghoulking would be that it is more expensive and probably cant take magic armour as it probably doesnt have an option for mundane armour.

that sounds about right with the armour, but if you look in the wd and look at his equipment he does'nt seem at all expensive compared to his loadout. he's 670

minus terrorgheist 225
scabscrath
potion of strength
Aura of dark majesty
curse of the revenant
summon creatures of the night


but he is only lvl 1 though.

also the nightshroud does'nt appear to be a light armour since the blood dragon lord guy wears a heavy armour also.

 

[The Dead of Night]

yes those are good things but allot of what you listed there "The Dead of Night" is yet to be confirmed.

That's my point though, you are making judgements way too early.

Also where before we had to take a trait for gear, it was annoying but it was doable, its not a earth shaking change, just something that should of happened long ago.

regardless of when it should have happened, the happening is a good thing. It is a pretty damn good change as well. I think combat vamps are looking like the way to go and not having to waste powers on equipment is going to be very useful.

Your listing new units though, I was talking rules...

New units come with new rules. The addition of fast cavalry, core wolves with vanguard and slavering charge, flying MI and the like are all very important rules which will help us make an impressive army.

"Keep in mind that Banshee and Wraith heroes" Its just them grabbing things out of the old book, nothing new.

We haven't been able to use them since '08 and we can use them now. It's a good thing that the new book is providing for us.

Losing a deathstar is not good when this edition is still focused around huge deathstar units, apart from our most viable troop being increased in points, a bit cav and a couple new monsters nothing has changed, most of the monsters are hard to be able to use as it stands anyway and some you have to base our entire list around to make it work.

but you don't have to base your list around a death star to make it work?

Also I will mention allot of the stuff we are getting is massive and hard to use on a board to move about due to its base size, taking that into account with the new marching restrictions and we may be in trouble, especially when it comes to marching Cav up flanks.

This is a possibility but remains to be seen. I think that a very viable and relatively compact army could be made. Rules like vanguard for the dire wolves can help us out in this regard. We'll need to see the book first though.

Zombies are still useless unless summoned however unless crumble has been drastically changed.

Maybe. At 3 points and with the increased T along with AoE IoN and newly dead and characters joining zombies; this might actually be the core unit of choice now. Yeah they die faster than skellies, but they also raise faster. With a character in the unit to absorb damage and dish it out in return, they may very well become viable. I like the banshee leading them.

CC has also lost its bound spell...... So without this even with improved strength it has suffered greatly.

But now it gets an ASF buff that can be used without using any more power dice than you otherwise would have (AoE IoN FTW)... bargain.


To be honest Duke, you seem to be making a lot of rules and excuses to ignore all the awesome stuff that we are getting, seemingly so you can highlight a few negatives.

 

[HERO]

A friend of mine just handed me a complete list of VC Powers and magic items. Im not going to list pointcosts, but i will sort them from cheap to expensive.

Magic Items.

Book of Arkhan, arcane artifact. bound spell lvl 3, move unit spell.

Screaming Banner: fear tests caused by this unit are made with 3d6, the lowest is discarded.

Cursed book, arcane artifact. Sacrifice d3 powerdice to cast 1 random spell determined with a d6 at base cost. 1: shadow signature, 2 shadow 2, 3 shadow 3, 4 death 3, 5 death 4, 6 heaven 3 ( first number is the d6 roll, zhen the lore and what dpell from the lore is cast. )

Staff of the damned: arcane artifact: lvl 4 bound spell, all friendly undead within 6" get +1 a, mounts included

Shroud: magical armour (its not an armor, therefor you can still have heavy armor and a shield.) +1 as. Enemy weapons in b2b (magic and common) do not provide a bonus to S and get the asl special rule.

Staff of fiery death: enchanted item, bound spell, lvl 3
Magic missile. Target enemy unit in 18" range. Suffers d6 s4 flaming hits. If you lose 1 wound it causes a panic test. If the unit is moved during its next turneach model suffers 1s4 hit. Spell ends if the unit moves or at the beginning oh vc's next magic phase.

Banner of the barrows: black knights, tomb guards, wight kings and krell get +1 to hit. Does not affect mounts.

Up to here all items are abailable to heroes.

Black periapt: arcane item, stores 2 power or dispeldice

Blade if agony

Wielder gets +1 a on charge, frenzy and flaming attacks.
If he fails to kill at least 1 enemy in close combat he's removed as a casulty at the end of the game.

Vampiric powers

Dreadknight: +2 ws. Vampire has to accept and issue challenges, as long as there isnt another vampire character or Krell present.

Summond creatures: able to raise direwolves, giant bats and bat swarms above starting size.

Perfect strike: swap all attacks for 1 with heroic killing blow (you don't have to)

Charming: nominate 1 mOdel in b2b, (after challenges are issued) it has to pass a ld check with -3 or has to reroll to hit.

Scary: passed tests for fear caused by the vampire or his unit have to be rerolled. If the enemy unit iswithin range of a bsbearer no rerolls are made (neither for the battlestandar nor for thos power)

Dark acolyte: vampire gets +d3 on casting all levels of invocation of nehek.

Terror: vampire causes terror.

Forbidden knowledge: use 1 lore from the rulebook, expect for lore of life

Dark Aura: all enemy units within 6" suffer -1 ld. Can be combined with orher simmilar effects.

ASF.

Flying (infantery only)

Red fury: bonus attacks for each wound caused. New attacks dont trigger another attack. You get bonusattacks for each wound caused, if you would happen to heroic killing blow an great unclean one you'd get 10 attacks.

Revenant:+1 wound

He-who-must-not-be-named (masterof the dark arts), reroll one of the dice for winds of magic.

The end. I translated the names myself (and in some cases i've been to lazy to do so)

Enjoy.

 

[Bune]

A friend of mine just handed me a complete list of VC Powers and magic items. Im not going to list pointcosts, but i will sort them from cheap to expensive.

Magic Items.

Book of Arkhan, arcane artifact. bound spell lvl 3, move unit spell.

Screaming Banner: fear tests caused by this unit are made with 3d6, the lowest is discarded.

Cursed book, arcane artifact. Sacrifice d3 powerdice to cast 1 random spell determined with a d6 at base cost. 1: shadow signature, 2 shadow 2, 3 shadow 3, 4 death 3, 5 death 4, 6 heaven 3 ( first number is the d6 roll, zhen the lore and what dpell from the lore is cast. )

Staff of the damned: arcane artifact: lvl 4 bound spell, all friendly undead within 6" get +1 a, mounts included

Shroud: magical armour (its not an armor, therefor you can still have heavy armor and a shield.) +1 as. Enemy weapons in b2b (magic and common) do not provide a bonus to S and get the asl special rule.

Staff of fiery death: enchanted item, bound spell, lvl 3
Magic missile. Target enemy unit in 18" range. Suffers d6 s4 flaming hits. If you lose 1 wound it causes a panic test. If the unit is moved during its next turneach model suffers 1s4 hit. Spell ends if the unit moves or at the beginning oh vc's next magic phase.

Banner of the barrows: black knights, tomb guards, wight kings and krell get +1 to hit. Does not affect mounts.

Up to here all items are abailable to heroes.

Black periapt: arcane item, stores 2 power or dispeldice

Blade if agony

Wielder gets +1 a on charge, frenzy and flaming attacks.
If he fails to kill at least 1 enemy in close combat he's removed as a casulty at the end of the game.

Vampiric powers

Dreadknight: +2 ws. Vampire has to accept and issue challenges, as long as there isnt another vampire character or Krell present.

Summond creatures: able to raise direwolves, giant bats and bat swarms above starting size.

Perfect strike: swap all attacks for 1 with heroic killing blow (you don't have to)

Charming: nominate 1 mOdel in b2b, (after challenges are issued) it has to pass a ld check with -3 or has to reroll to hit.

Scary: passed tests for fear caused by the vampire or his unit have to be rerolled. If the enemy unit iswithin range of a bsbearer no rerolls are made (neither for the battlestandar nor for thos power)

Dark acolyte: vampire gets +d3 on casting all levels of invocation of nehek.

Terror: vampire causes terror.

Forbidden knowledge: use 1 lore from the rulebook, expect for lore of life

Dark Aura: all enemy units within 6" suffer -1 ld. Can be combined with orher simmilar effects.

ASF.

Flying (infantery only)

Red fury: bonus attacks for each wound caused. New attacks dont trigger another attack. You get bonusattacks for each wound caused, if you would happen to heroic killing blow an great unclean one you'd get 10 attacks.

Revenant:+1 wound

He-who-must-not-be-named (masterof the dark arts), reroll one of the dice for winds of magic.

The end. I translated the names myself (and in some cases i've been to lazy to do so)

Enjoy.

The list is not complete as he says it is. still a nice find though.
i think our items are pretty okay if you compare them to the other 8th edition books and their magic items.. also we kept our powers something i was fearing was gone so im a happy camper

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Your listing new units though, I was talking rules...

New units come with new rules. The addition of fast cavalry, core wolves with vanguard and slavering charge, flying MI and the like are all very important rules which will help us make an impressive army.

They used to be fast cav before the errta and they used to have slavering charge in the past so its all old hat.

"Keep in mind that Banshee and Wraith heroes" Its just them grabbing things out of the old book, nothing new.

We haven't been able to use them since '08 and we can use them now. It's a good thing that the new book is providing for us.

Its not the new book though, its parts of the old book with a new cover, its provided squat, they have just realized, oh maybe we should of left that the way it was.

Losing a deathstar is not good when this edition is still focused around huge deathstar units, apart from our most viable troop being increased in points, a bit cav and a couple new monsters nothing has changed, most of the monsters are hard to be able to use as it stands anyway and some you have to base our entire list around to make it work.

but you don't have to base your list around a death star to make it work?

In the past it was a option you had open though, now you just don't have the choice at all and above 2k no you don't need to base it around it anyway.

Also I will mention allot of the stuff we are getting is massive and hard to use on a board to move about due to its base size, taking that into account with the new marching restrictions and we may be in trouble, especially when it comes to marching Cav up flanks.

This is a possibility but remains to be seen. I think that a very viable and relatively compact army could be made. Rules like vanguard for the dire wolves can help us out in this regard. We'll need to see the book first though.

A fast moving army may of been viable back in the day we could march with vamps, now its gone we are quick off the line but soon find ourselves in no mans land moving slow as hell.

Zombies are still useless unless summoned however unless crumble has been drastically changed.

Maybe. At 3 points and with the increased T along with AoE IoN and newly dead and characters joining zombies; this might actually be the core unit of choice now. Yeah they die faster than skellies, but they also raise faster. With a character in the unit to absorb damage and dish it out in return, they may very well become viable. I like the banshee leading them.

Well I'll give you points for your tireless optimism but skellies can't hold their own and they are a damn sight better, what makes you think models even poorer in combat with no saves for just under half the price can fight their way out of a paper bag?
They are a speed bump, until they are buffed with other spells they are onlky good for getting in the way of things or plopping in watchtowers.

CC has also lost its bound spell...... So without this even with improved strength it has suffered greatly.

But now it gets an ASF buff that can be used without using any more power dice than you otherwise would have (AoE IoN FTW)... bargain.

And is this buff just for itself?
It was never a viable fighting choice, just good for buffing near by units, with out that its a damn poor showing.

To be honest Duke, you seem to be making a lot of rules and excuses to ignore all the awesome stuff that we are getting, seemingly so you can highlight a few negatives.

[/quote]

What I am highlighting is that we have lost most of our gear in items and traits, the few good things we had in that regard are now gone replaced with OP rubbish, we have choices from our history books gifted back to us.
We got new models, great, I love them, does not mean I am going to skip down lollipop junction ignoring all the horrible things.
Hell I bet any money the WK has probs been dropped down to 2 wounds as well.

 

[SpeedyGoat]

I hope the nightshroud affects supporting attacks (it says btb) or I don't see it being that good against GW geared regiments.

 

[Grish]

Ideas are phased into and out of books as time goes on.

I think you are wrong here Duke.

In the current book, we need 25% core. The only core that counts is Zombies, Skeletons and Ghouls. So all ghouls is the only choice. In the new book, this doesn't look to be the case. So saving money going for 3pt Zombies as opposed to 10pt Ghouls gives you room to spend your minimum points elsewhere, such as Direwolves.

Also, Skeletons die in droves because we can't give them proper Vampire support. IoN doesn't work like it used to. In this edition, it's AoE. So you could deploy 5 units of 20 Zombies for 300 pts, and one good IoN could raise an extra 8 models in each unit. If you have one large unit of Ghouls, you still only raise 8 models. Combined with Vampire support with 5A and additional powers, they can have the CR to win, eventually. The vampire could kill enough RnF that they will lose steadfastness.

Saying that Zombies suck is still true, but there is All-important synergy between different units, characters, magic items, etc. We don't fully know what this is yet, but from what I see, it is possible. We still need to win combat though, or be close enough that CR doesn't cause us too much crumble. I think that if you deploy Zombies against WoC you'll lose them in droves; but against other forces, such as huge blocks of Skaven slaves, they'll have a place.

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

[mod]Please remember: once GW publish the stat lines (in books or on their website) it is copyrighted material, and hence you can not do a direct copy and paste - hence the previous posts stating points values in skaven slaves! If it is on their website just link it[/mod]

 

[Nagashizzar]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900003a

Doesn't appear to be working yet :-(

 

[Duke Danse Macabre]

Yes that is true if direwolves have been taken.
However Skellies are renown at crumbling in combat, zombies which are slower with no saves will e#be even more so and wolves which have +1 strength on the charge are still easy to wound with no saves, ghouls are still by far the better choice even when outnumbered.
So really we have a better choice than before but its still not a good one.

if invocation works like that it may be interesting but I would want to see the rules first.
The issue stands as they will crumble the moment they hit combat and I don't fancy the power dice drain or paying any points for them, they are summon worth at a push, that is all, to field them as part of the bulk army is a waste in every regard but fluff.

Lets see how that all pipes out but as it stands what I was saying is what we know is a poor showing, what we are doing now is theory crafting as we don't know the particulars.
Against cannon fodder other cannon fodder can hold its own, against anything that can give out punishment though they are a waste.
Lets see if we can negate crumble under the new rules though.

No probs Don, Will keep tabs on it from here on out.

 

[Celeritas]

It is now.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

Its working for me anyway.
Krell looks mighty tempting, statwise and model wise.
Im easily seduced by 4 wounds.

 

[Nagashizzar]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat440004a&prodId=prod1460008a

Wight king stats and confirmation on the bottom that GG still have GW option!

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

You can see a bit more of vanhels in the spell cards photo. There was talk of it loosing its re rolls giving feature. Cant remember if anyone disproved them before now, but vanhels keeps the re rolls.

 

[Celeritas]

So, for me, I am pleased that the Black Coach isn't getting dropped, as it appears in advance orders in Finecast; which is also good as we all know that the metal one is a bitch!

Also finecast Fell Bats which is always good.

I have to say though, that £29 for 3 Vargheists to me seems high, even for GW standards.

 

[Pietr Von Carstein]

Finecast fell bats is bad as it means we wont be getting new sculpts.
21 euros for the winged vampire lord is worse. It was originally what 10.50?

 

[Celeritas]

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/content/blogPost.jsp?aId=19900003a

Doesn't appear to be working yet :-(

Finecast fell bats is bad as it means we wont be getting new sculpts.
21 euros for the winged vampire lord is worse. It was originally what 10.50?

I believe it has gone up by a couple of pounds (not sure how that translates into Euros) but that sort of increase is standard for Finecast models in my experience.

Besides - it can't ever get as bad as Blood Knights

 

[Disciple of Nagash]

[mod]First post of compilation thread has had a big update, with army list, magic items and vampire powers:[/mod]

https://www.vampirecounts.net/Thread-Rumour-Compilation-Vampire-Counts-New-Release-14th-Jan-2012

 

[Nagashizzar]

CC is still core on the GW web site .... Hmmm