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Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Yeah, it should be
Whenever the Guilt comes under attack of any kind, roll a d6. On a 2+, the Guilt suffers no effect. Instead, resolve the entire attack against the attacking model.

I'd remove the "as the attack came from Guilt" part as well... to stop a reflection of the reflection (Black Amulet).

2+... but not a save, not a Ward save, not regen... just a 2+ on a d6.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, so we now have:

Whenever the Guilt comes under attack (this includes instant death such as Pit of Shades, and spells which have an effect but do not cause damage) of any kind, roll a d6. On a 2+, the Guilt suffers no effect. Instead, resolve the entire attack including any special rules (such as Killing Blow) against the attacking model. If the attack had a strength value it is doubled to a maximum of 10. If it is unclear who made the attack then it is distributed as shooting on that unit (e.g warmachines). This power cannot be used against Crumbling.

How does that look.
 
Apr 24, 2009
182
Behind you!
At what point should that roll be made? Is it the moment she is attacked, if it hits, if it wounds or at the Armor Save stage?

It doesn't make sense to reflect back an attack that didn't even hit, but I don't think it makes sense to see if it would hurt the Guilt before reflecting it either. I say the roll goes just after hitting, but before wounding. What do you think?

Oh, and you need to mention what happens if you roll a one. It should seem intuitive, but rules lawyers would be all over that. Just add, "On 1, resolve the attack as normal against the Guilt." on the end.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
OK, I have updated the Guilt's rules in my first post, and I think she is ok now. Damn difficult to kill but limited offense to balance her out.

I wasn't sure about the Sentence, so I though instead it would be interesting to move onto the Verdict:

The Verdict
Description:
A powerful built albino, this Dreadlord is the master of the Nagashi Cult. He spreads the teachings of his Dark Lord far and wide, using his powerful mental capabilities where words fail. His bright orange robes match the flames that lick out of his eyes, and crown the staff he always carries.

Pros:
Has the ability to assault the minds of others within a close proximity. Bombarding them with words or images he can cause them pain, make them feel emotions or simply undermine them. Very dangerous for casters as he can easily make them miscast.
An innate ability to control and use fire, as master of the Lore of Fire. Is also immune to fire based attacks.
Skilled in the use of his staff in close combat

Cons:
No armour and no other defences.
Not skilled enough in combat to match the likes of Blood Dragons
Whilst potent in magic, nowhere near the likes of the Sentence.
Is a fanatic, and thus can be drawn into making bad decisions.


So here are my first thoughts:

The Verdict

M 4 / WS 6 / BS 0 / S 5 / T 4 / W 3 / I 6 / A 3 / Ld 10

Magic
The Verdict knows all 4 Rituals and may cast one per turn. He is also a level 2 wizard and knows all the spells in the Lore of Fire.

Equipment

Staff of the True Follower
This black staff burns bright when held in the hands of a true believer of Nagash. In the Verdicts hands it has turned into a potent weapon, fuelled by his fanatic loyalty to his master.
The staff has Flaming Attacks, and also grants the bearer an additional PD in each of their magic phases. In addition it can be used as either a Great Weapon or or two hand weapons. This must be chosen before the start of combat and cannot be changed until the Verdict has left combat. If the Verdict cast the Flaming Sword of Rhuin, the affects of the spell are combined with the Staff's special rules.

Special Rules

Undead

Fanatic
The Verdict believes in the Dark Lord like no other, and will stop at nothing to carry his master's command. Such is his force of will that he will not retreat, and woe betide any others who would seek to flee whilst he watches
The Verdict has the Frenzy special rule that can never be lost. Such is his belief that has the same rules as the army Standard Bearer (this can work cumulative with the normal Army Standard Bearer). If any Nagashi flees whilst within 6" of the Verdict they automatically suffer D6 wounds with no save of any kind allowed. If they should flee into the Verdict or the unit that contains the Verdict, they Nagashi unit is automatically destroyed as if they had been run down by an enemy unit. However the enemy does not gain the VP for the destroyed unit.

Pyromancer
The fires of his belief burns to strongly in the Verdict it manifests as actual flames. With eyes that burn like white hot coals he can control the winds of fire with ease, whilst the immense heat of his body can scorch enemies or burn arrows before they can harm him.
The Verdict has +1 to his casting roll when using spells from the Lore of fire. He also has a 5+ ward save.

Mind Assault
The Verdict has the ability to assault the minds of others, hammering their thoughts with words and images until they can do nothing. As their thoughts and emotions are twisted they prove easy prey for the armies of Nagash.
The Verdict can choose one unit or character within 8" of him at the start of every turn. The unit must take Ld at their base value (they may not use a characters Ld unless they are in the unit). If failed the unit cannot move or shoot that turn, and if engaged in combat their WS is reduced to 1.
If a wizard is targeted for every spell they cast they must take a Ld test at their base Ld with no modifiers for magic items / rules etc. If passed they may cast as normal. If failed they automatically miscast.

How does that look?
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
I think it's ok as the player first has a choice to try and cast the spell, then if they have to fail the Ld test. Plus the power can only affect one unit / character per turn anyway.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
"The staff has Flaming Attacks, and also makes the bearer completely immune to Flaming Attacks in return."

I don't really like this bit. If your hit by a flamming cannon ball, you ingnore the flamming bit its still a cannon ball...

He does look very easy to kill, with frenzy and only T4 with no armor, I think he should gain a save of some kind, maby not armor but a ward or regen?

Now onto the bit i've been avoiding Mind assult...I think that it shouldn't be auto miscast but he takes the test (at -2) at the start then the wizard will miscast on any double. As most Lvl 2 socerers are only Ld7-8 so will fail the auto miscast to easily.
Or maby go with the ld test everytime you cast with a -2, and if you fail you get -3 to cast (instead of auto miscast). Also it shouldn't effect ITP.

Edit: This is a lord right, i thought the verdict was only going to be hero lvl. Also i think you need to add wether there lords or heros to the first post.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Well its only working in the same way as Dragon Armour, plus if you remove just the Flaming Attack rule it really has not effect as the Verdict is not flammable.

In regards to the Mind Assault. I don't like the modifier to cast, as the fluff behind it is meant to mean the wizard looses control. How about simply if the wizard fails his Leadership test at -1 or 2, they cannot cast spells for that magic phase, and any RIP they have are automatically dispelled?

He does perhaps look a little easy to kill, though I wanted his vulnerability to be a weakness. Perhaps a low level ward like a 5+?

Even though he is powerful, I did imagine him as a hero character as he is quite a lot less powerful than the other Dreadlords.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Disciple of Nagash said:
Well its only working in the same way as Dragon Armour, plus if you remove just the Flaming Attack rule it really has not effect as the Verdict is not flammable.
I know, I hate the idea of dragon armour, but i can't think of a better idea atm

If he's going to be a hero, he can't be magic level 4 that will have people screaming broken.
If he's going to be a hero:
I would replace the Lvl 4 with Lvl 2 and +1 to cast on the lore of fire (still knows all spells), you could also make his staff give him an extra powerdice. That would still make him a powerful mage.

Also maby have him reduced to 2 wounds but i'm not to sure on his fluff (it might make sense for him to have an extra wound then normal) also maby lose and attack (as a hero lvl vampire only has 3).

Onto mind assult, i think the original idea would work if it was just a standard ld test with no modifiers as this guy is only a hero it shouldn't be to potent. It shouldn't effect units/heros ItP. I think stopping a wizard casting all together for a magic phase is too powerful.

I think the 5+ ward would work fine.
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
I think he looks good now. A powerful hero level mage with a cool power that's not to powerful with some CC potential but has the weakness of not being that suviveable.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Maybe just state that: As a master of fire, Verdict may use one more dice then normally allowed when casting spells from the Lore of Fire.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Ok, I have edited that in and added it to the first post. If no one has any objections we can move onto the next character.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Right onto the next character:

The Scribe aka V'azrin. Now I am not sure what rules to create, considering he is one of the most powerful characters in the TVC. So I thought best if we checked over his TVC bio which can be found here, and then maybe we can discuss how best to start.

So any suggestions?
 

Knightofni

Varghulf
True Blood
Aug 31, 2009
758
If he's that good at magic then he should have access to six spells; but he gets to choose which ones.. from any of the lores detailed in his Bio.. with +1 to cast and +1 to dispel, and r.i.p spells remain even when he's casting again. Or something like that anyway.. Obviously he'd be a lvl 4 wizard for generating dice.

His obscene magical capabilities could be countered by truly atrocious combat stats..
 

Sweeney Todd

Master Vampire
True Blood
Mar 9, 2008
4,034
Singapore
For V'azrin, I'd say that he could have access to all the Legion of Nagash spells plus an additional 1 or 2 spells of his choice from any lore mentioned in his bio. That gives him more than 6 spells, I know, but he is the Scribe after all. Copying spells down should be his forte :lol:
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
The Scribe

M 4 / WS 4 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 3 / A 2 / Ld 9

Magic
The Verdict knows all 4 Rituals and may cast all four per turn. He is also a level 4 wizard and knows all the spells from the Lore of Nagash.

Equipment

Dark Fang of Nagash
This blade was granted to V’azrin by the Great Necromancer as a gift for his service in the war in Nehekhara.
The blade grants visions of madness and terror into those it cuts. Is less effective on powerful vampires than on mortals, but he rarely uses it.

Hand Weapon. A models that are wounded by this weapon must take an Ld test using the Ld on their stat line. If failed the model may not attack from this turn and any attacks directed at the affected model will hit automatically.


Pale Tome
A tome compiled by V’azrin he recently reclaimed it after Mannfred’s destruction; he compiled the spells within to control and destroy the Unliving. It also contains notes by V’azrin
This book has the same powers as Book 6 - The Book of Undermining & Book 7 - The Book of Power.

Special Rules

Undead
Vampire (from the VC Armybook)


Hoarder of Knowledge
V'azrin has spent many years carefully hoarding magical knowledge. Whilst the spells of Nagash have been drilled into his mind, unfortunately his memory is unreliable when it comes to the other branches of magic, and as such it is unsure what spell will come forth from his lips.
Once per magic phase V'azrin can attempt to cast any spell from any magic Lore from the BRB excluding Life. Choose the spell you wish to cast and roll D6. On a 4+ the spell is cast as normal, on 1-3 a random spell from that lore is cast, roll D6 to select the spell. If the number of dice to cast the spell has no chance of meeting the required casting roll for the random spell it automatically fails.

Cunning
Though his mind can be at times unreliable, the Scribe is deceptively cunning. His is able to make plans years into the future, with convoluted twists and turns that eventually work out to his own benefit.
After deployment choose one of your opponents units (note this cannot be a character). That unit is not deployed as normal, but instead is placed on the board in turn 2, on the enemies board edge, as if they had returned from chasing off the board.


There, how is that looking?
 

Capt Rubber Ducky

Vampire Count
True Blood
Jun 9, 2009
1,547
Disciple of Nagash said:
The Scribe

M 4 / WS 4 / BS 0 / S 4 / T 4 / W 3 / I 3 / A 2 / Ld 9

Magic
The Verdict knows all 4 Rituals and may cast all four per turn. He is also a level 4 wizard and knows all the spells from the Lore of Nagash.
Typo?
Equipment

Dark Fang of Nagash
This blade was granted to V’azrin by the Great Necromancer as a gift for his service in the war in Nehekhara. I take it, it will be made obvious in the fluff that the scribe is V'azrin, it could be confusing
The blade grants visions of madness and terror into those it cuts. Is less effective on powerful vampires than on mortals, but he rarely uses it.

Hand Weapon. A models that are wounded by this weapon must take an Ld test using the Ld on their stat line. If failed the model may not attack from this turn and any attacks directed at the affected model will hit automatically.
fine

Pale Tome
A tome compiled by V’azrin he recently reclaimed it after Mannfred’s destruction; he compiled the spells within to control and destroy the Unliving. It also contains notes by V’azrin - The only problem is Manfred doesn't fight the TVC in GW world
This book has the same powers as Book 6 - The Book of Undermining & Book 7 - The Book of Power.
Rules are fine
Special Rules

Undead
Vampire (from the VC Armybook)


Hoarder of Knowledge
V'azrin has spent many years carefully hoarding magical knowledge. Whilst the spells of Nagash have been drilled into his mind, unfortunately his memory is unreliable when it comes to the other branches of magic, and as such it is unsure what spell will come forth from his lips.
Once per magic phase V'azrin can attempt to cast any spell from any magic Lore from the BRB excluding Life and Light?. Choose the spell you wish to cast and roll D6. On a 4+ the spell is cast as normal, on 1-3 a random spell from that lore is cast, roll D6 to select the spell. If the number of dice to cast the spell has no chance of meeting the required casting roll for the random spell it automatically fails.

Cunning
Though his mind can be at times unreliable, the Scribe is deceptively cunning. His is able to make plans years into the future, with convoluted twists and turns that eventually work out to his own benefit.
After deployment choose one of your opponents units (note this cannot be a character). That unit is not deployed as normal, but instead is placed on the board in turn 2, on the enemies board edge, as if they had returned from chasing off the board.


There, how is that looking?

The rules look good to me, but there are some issues with the fluff IMO.[/color]
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
God this hasn't been looked at since last November!

I think we need to finish this up, so if will look tonight when I get home. However if some of you could have a look through? I have no doubt Dancey will want somethings toning down :tongue:
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Type not specified (Lord or Hero), I'd go with Lord given magic power levels. Also, if a Vampire Lord... I'd consider putting the Toughness back up to 5. Rest of the stats seem fine to me.

I agree with the exclusion of Life and Light. Perhaps you could add in Lore of the Dark Arts if you really wanted to (after all, way back in 4th Undead and Dark Elves shared a few spells).

Hoarder of Knowledge
Once per magic phase V'azrin can attempt to cast any spell from any magic Lore from the BRB excluding Life and Light?. Choose the spell you wish to cast and roll D6. On a 4+ the spell is cast as normal, on 1-3 a random spell from that lore is cast, roll D6 to select the spell. If the number of dice to cast the spell has no chance of meeting the required casting roll for the random spell it automatically fails.

I'm missing something else here. I assume by the wording that you want the Caster to declare the spell that they want to try and cast, then roll a casting roll (or at least declare how many dice they are going to use). After this, you roll the 4+ to see if you get the desired spell or not.
 

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