Upcoming Warhammer Fantasy Releases- Including Nagash & new VC stuff.

[GDD]

@Sir Geheimnisnacht He was born 15000 years ago. A fate like that was not unique to him at all. In the end he has no motivation for doing evil. He isn't teaching anyone a lesson, and does not gain anything from doing the acts he has done.
It's very obvious that GW just wanted a bad guy, "so they just made an old wizard that poisons people".

There is no thought out character here. The whole "chaos gods payed tribute to him" is just a form of saying "L-look! He is a big deal! I-I promise ok?" I could have loved an old enchanter type character, that has sort of influenced the world from the shadows.. I sound like a broken record but he has no intention, or motivation explained behind his acts. Thats what I hate about him. He is just some evil guy.

If they added reasons for things, and fleshed him out I'm sure I would like him.
I just cannot sympathize with him.
He isn't chaotic evil, he is just random badly written evil.

His origin story has some cool stuff to it, it's just that I can't get over the fact that he sat on his ass for some 17k years. Doing evil stuff sometimes for no reason.

Tzeentch, like the other chaos gods does not want the "game to end" because if the struggles of mortals continue he remains ever powerful. A clear motivation. A good explanation for a chaotic evil.

Nagash learned the advantages of power, and used it to beat the biggest mystery that had troubled his people forever. How to beat death. He continues to unlock the mysteries of death, becoming closer and closer to controlling it entirely recently. And while he is doing this he subjugates anyone who dares to deny his power, or ridicule him, believing that he deserves absolute respect for his powers. He ends up accomplishing alot, not just for himself, but for warhammer as a whole. Clear motivations, and character driven actions. Ends up looking like a badass, and can justify coming back from the dead through lore.
A good villain.

Malekith is the more revenge hungry, spiteful, jealous villain. He is all about character, and his character helps influence the culture of all warhammer dark elfs, together with Morathi. His motivation comes from the long complex story of Ulthuan, and how he justifies he was destined for the throne. You can sympathize with the bacon king.


If they are going to bring him back for the end times I hope they flesh him out in the process.

 

[Sir Geheimnisnacht]

@Sir Geheimnisnacht A fate like that was not unique to him at all. .

A fate that still wouldn't be uncommon apart from the exile. That's what makes it interesting -- to me anyway. The choice of good or evil isn't reserved for the privileged or the few. It's an every person, every day thing and why I think the concept of Drachenfels (I'm not trying to argue that he's been utilized or had his story told as masterfully as Nagash or Malekith) is the more relatable of the three.

I know I over-simplified my other examples in my previous post, but I think unanswered/unanswerable riddles add an interesting element and is probably why I felt like coming to the defense of Drachenfels. Do I think Drachenfels would make a superior primary antagonist in Warhammer? No, I think the current antagonists are better for that role. I simply think Drachenfels as an enigmatic occasional presence would be interesting. Shtick like convincing the imperials he's turned over a new leaf in order to convince them to attend his trick feast would have to be pitched as it no longer meshes with the matured fluff, but I don't think Drachenfels needs to be fully fleshed out and have a clear purpose -- there are plenty of other characters for that.

 

[Giladis]

Karl Franz is alive as is his griffon. It is described in the flavour text after the description of the battle where Karl fell. Vlad and Mannfred did interact but it is not described in the background book, it is in the BL novel. Also Vlad is aware what Manny did that cuased his downfall.

It looks like that only Krell and Arkhan are really loyal.

Vlad is in it for love and building a strong and unified human Empire that could resist all threats, if he manages to get what he wants turning his back on Nagash is probably the first thing on him list - though killing Mannfred might be competing for that spot.

Mannfred had his own schemes turned on him by the simple fact that Arkhan could hear his thoughts. He resents his servitude and in the moment Settra defies Nagash he laments the fact he didn't have the courage to do the same. Betrayal of Nagash and killing Arkhan and Vlad are taking the top 3 spots on his list.

Nefferata is trying to save her skin so as to not suffer for her previous betrayal. If given the chance to get rid of Nagash and Arkhan she will take it.

 

[Banat]

I haven't read the novelisation that is recounted in the lexicanum link posted (i read the same thing yesterday when I wanted to know who he was). The "reappearing at the play that is being performed at the castle in honour of the guy who defeated him" idea is very very slick and incredibly Shakespearean in fact (play within a play sort of thing). I really like that idea. However, I think with at least regards to that particular story, Drachenfels would have worked better if he wasn't some sort of 15,000 year old necromancer.

Typically in fantasy Age is Power and at 15,000 years old you expect him to be some sort of Nagashian figure, bestriding the world of mortals, conquering the underworld etc etc, not lurking around in a castle for most of the time being the occasional joker. 500 years old? Yeah, absolutely would buy that. Also... his name... Drachenfells is clearly germanic in origin. If he belonged to some 15,000 year old tribe that predated the Lizardmen then his name would be much closer to, say... Tharg, Krag or something, rather than the clearly Gothic Romance Germanic inspired Drachenfells (even though Drachenfells is a cool name, subconscious links to a fell dragon). Worth noting that Drachenfels is an actual place in Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drachenfels_(Siebengebirge)

 

[crimsonsun]

Ive not read the last 5pages of comments so I have no idea if this has been said already..

I am reading Nagash at the moment and I can say without a doubt this is the best publication to have come from the games workshop studio in the last 15-20years, not only are the books beautiful, but they are filled with entirely new fluff and a metric ton of it! while there are pictures of models etc that is done for effect instead of filling pages or due to limited content as these books are literally filled with new fluff, even the introduction is FORTY pages, of which 30+ are text.

While the cost was/is high these four books (8 volumes) will all be must buys and in a time where its highly fashionable for the wider online community to bash Games Workshop I feel it must be said that GW have really done themselves credit with this release, which if is the shape of things to come really is a huge step back in the right direction for them. I am also publishing this post on various forums simply because I feel that with the ease all online gaming communities these days gain support with GW bashing remarks (something I am not ashamed to say I do myself!) that when a company with such a bad current reputation does something right it is often glazed over and ignored and while I do not agree with GW's pricing policies overall (especially those abroad) I cannot sit by and not comment on what a fantastic product this is.

 

[Sanguinus]

Just got my collector's edition of Nagash and I have to agree with crimsonsun: the quality of this product is bloody excellent. The covers have a lovely...I'm not really sure how to describe the texture of the cover, but they beg to be stroked.

One thing not mentioned on the website is that it comes with a pocket notebook - the cover of which is printed to resemble one of Nagash's tomes. That was a nice surprise.

 

[crimsonsun]

One thing not mentioned on the website is that it comes with a pocket notebook - the cover of which is printed to resemble one of Nagash's tomes. That was a nice surprise.

That's was included in the non collectors edition also, it was def a pleasant surprise.

 

[Vallasch]

Huh, I got the limited edition but there was no such notebook included. Just the 2 books and the art print folio...?

 

[Sception]

Ive not read the last 5pages of comments so I have no idea if this has been said already..

I am reading Nagash at the moment and I can say without a doubt this is the best publication to have come from the games workshop studio in the last 15-20years, not only are the books beautiful, but they are filled with entirely new fluff and a metric ton of it! while there are pictures of models etc that is done for effect instead of filling pages or due to limited content as these books are literally filled with new fluff, even the introduction is FORTY pages, of which 30+ are text.

While the cost was/is high these four books (8 volumes) will all be must buys and in a time where its highly fashionable for the wider online community to bash Games Workshop I feel it must be said that GW have really done themselves credit with this release, which if is the shape of things to come really is a huge step back in the right direction for them. I am also publishing this post on various forums simply because I feel that with the ease all online gaming communities these days gain support with GW bashing remarks (something I am not ashamed to say I do myself!) that when a company with such a bad current reputation does something right it is often glazed over and ignored and while I do not agree with GW's pricing policies overall (especially those abroad) I cannot sit by and not comment on what a fantastic product this is.

I agree with all of this. If I were a pure gamer, I might complain at $80 dollars for a handfull of special characters, some scenario rules, and an 'undead legions' army list which basically amounts to "go buy the VC and TK army book, and use whatever you want from them together", as the actual rules are pretty thin, of questionable balance, and require $100 of other books just to use.

But as a fan of the Warhammer world and it's lore, as someone who's been longing for the Return of Nagash for ages, who loves to read new fluff and see new art, and who is excited to see the Warhammer timeline pushed forward in dramatic ways with huge implications, the Nagash books are absolutely stupendous. Huge, crammed with entirely new fluff, a bunch of great art, in a product where even the 'regular' version feels like a lovingly crafted special edition.

I hadn't intended to get other end times books, just Nagash, but as I've been reading through the lore book especially I've come to realize that I'll be picking up the entire series, even books that don't include any rules for my own armies.

This is, imo, simply a top notch product. Pricey, but well worth what I spent on it, and honestly far more content and quality than I had expected from GW for this price point.

 

[Mioum]

Just got my collector's edition of Nagash and I have to agree with crimsonsun: the quality of this product is bloody excellent. The covers have a lovely...I'm not really sure how to describe the texture of the cover, but they beg to be stroked.

One thing not mentioned on the website is that it comes with a pocket notebook - the cover of which is printed to resemble one of Nagash's tomes. That was a nice surprise.

What are the 5 artworks from the Limited Edition? From GW website we can see that one is Balthasar head shot, but I,km curious as what the others are!

 

[Sanguinus]

All headshots: Balthasar, Mannfred, Neferata and 2 Nagash (the portrait and portfolio shots that appear on the covers).

 

[Mioum]

Ah, shame about Nagash getting two, would have been great to see Arkhan getting one too Thanks for the info

 

[Sception]

Re: the retcon to the 'Night of the Restless Dead' mentioned a ways back in the thread:

The new fluff is that the Fell blade didn't just destroy Nagash's physical form, it placed an enduring curse upon his spirit, such that every time he returned thereafter he would be diminished. In the many centuries between his initial destruction and the Night he has returned not just once, but several times, and his worldy incarnation has been weaker with each rebirth, until finally it reached a point where after his last resurrection he could not even hold himself together, and crumbled away after a single night among the living - the Night of the Restless Dead.

Part of the campaign by Mannfred and Arkhan to bring back Nagash is capturing the Fellblade that placed the curse upon him, so that it could be destroyed and the curse lifted.

 

[lord marcus]

so i was out of town for the weekend, could i get a summary of the last five pages?

 

[Sanguinus]

Ah, shame about Nagash getting two, would have been great to see Arkhan getting one too :tongue: Thanks for the info

Actually, I think I might be wrong about the second Nagash.

It's this, which has more of a headdress than Nagash's crown, so it might be Arkhan.

 

[Banat]

Difficult to say. Both Arkhan and Nagash have skeletal faces whilst that has flesh on it.

 

[Sception]

so i was out of town for the weekend, could i get a summary of the last five pages? :tongue:

Sure. Nagash is awesome, the books are awesome, the prices are terrible, but less so than you might think, the lore upheavals are jaw dropping, but in some cases not as jaw dropping as first thought - ie Franz is not actually dead, just KO'd.

Other than that, Caliborn is Lord English, Rosebud is his sled, and one of the Mortarchs who doesn't currently have rules or a model might be Drachenfels, but in all likelihood is probably just Kemmler.

 

[Mioum]

Actually, I think I might be wrong about the second Nagash.

It's this, which has more of a headdress than Nagash's crown, so it might be Arkhan.

Oh, this one is most certainly Settra then! You can see the segmented headband, and the cobra that is part of his crown. Plus the disjointed jaw that we see here and there with mummies

 

[Vallasch]

Could anyone post a picture of the notebook they got with the Nagash books/supplement? I'm rather curious about this as I'm personally very fond of notebooks and use them for all sorts of things, and a themed one would be very awesome, but I didn't get such a one...

 

[Sanguinus]

Front: Back:
It's A6.

Oh, this one is most certainly Settra then!

I was wondering if it was Settra, since the headdress didn't really match the new Arkhan model.

 

[Banat]

Settra is also skeletal though. It's how I imagined Nagash looked when he was much younger, after only a few hundred years of immortality and his skin was still mostly fine.

 

[Menkeroth]

 

[lord marcus]

Sure. Nagash is awesome, the books are awesome, the prices are terrible, but less so than you might think, the lore upheavals are jaw dropping, but in some cases not as jaw dropping as first thought - ie Franz is not actually dead, just KO'd.

Other than that, Caliborn is Lord English, Rosebud is his sled, and one of the Mortarchs who doesn't currently have rules or a model might be Drachenfels, but in all likelihood is probably just Kemmler.

lore upheavals meaning background, not magic related crunch?

 

[crimsonsun]

so i was out of town for the weekend, could i get a summary of the last five pages? :tongue:

if you go up 9 posts from your own I give my views on the books

lore upheavals meaning background, not magic related crunch?

Honestly I've not done more than scan volume 2, I've been so engrossed in volume 1, so I cannot say if there are Crunch related upheavals though there are background based ones.

 

[Sception]

Yes, meaning background.