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Uncle Fester

Zombie
Dec 21, 2010
31
Bishop said:
I would say that this link makes it conclusive that Wraiths/Banshees can be taken both/either way!

It also shows the new "special" rule(s) for the "character" types only.

Thanks for that Bishop... I noticed last night that the new Banshee (Character) Ghostly Howl requires line of sight, unlike the older (unit) Banshee.

So now we can have a Hero Wraith lead a unit of Wraiths.
 

FirestormXL

Ghoul
Aug 1, 2010
126
The GW site makes it pretty clear on that the heros get chill while the rare ones do not. Here is my question though, what the heck exactly IS chill grasp!? My GW was closed today for Gamesday T.T or I woulda gotten the mag.
 

Valle

Grave Guard
May 23, 2011
269
Sitting with the WD in front of me, and i quote "These are official rules that can be used ALONGSIDE the rules in Warhammer armies: Vampire Counts" So it seems that they are still rare choices as usual, and we should take these ekstra rules as an addition to that.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Well I am pretty damn happy how the rules have turned out. We still have the old units, but also the new characters. Like others have said, I am pleased I can now take a Banshee without having to get the Wraith unit when I don't want it. Being able to join units is great as well, I can see a wraith hero proving to be a potent addition to a skellie unit for example.

Plus we now have more Hero choices that are cheaper than a vamp! Does this mean you could end get a unit of Wraiths + Banshee, and then put in more Banshees in the same unit? Two or three screams in one turn against a low leadership unit or monster could really hurt.

If only it could be cleared up whether they have access to magic weapons?
 

Zombieboy

Skeleton
Feb 27, 2011
64
I just love that they can join up with our core troups to give them a little extra punch. They will be a nasty surprise as well in challenges if the opposing character has no magical weapon. Go Go Ghost guys!
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
You can tell with any unit entry whether/which magical items are available by looking to see if it says "may take magical items up to xxx pts" or in the case of kastellans "may take a magical weapon worth up to xxx pts"
Does the banshee/wraith have a bit saying that?
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
There is no mention of Magical Items under the entries for the WD Banshee/Wraith. Seems that they can not take any (I'm sure that was completely intentional, though magic weapons would have been nice).
 

Uncle Fester

Zombie
Dec 21, 2010
31
It seems pretty clear that the Wraith Hero (WD 379) and the Wraith unit (VC AB) are different units and are able to be used in parallel.

The Chill Grasp attack applies to the Hero only and the non-Hero Wraiths do not gain that attack.

Assuming the Tomb Banshee is similar, you will have to be careful in how you buy her. As it stands now the Banshee you purchase as a unit champion does not need line of sight for her Ghostly Howl and the Hero Banshee does.

This would be an important thing to remember and might be a good thing to point out to your opponent to avoid misunderstandings. I wish GW had named the Wraith and Banshee something different that would avoid this 'problem'

Fester
 

God of War

Skeleton
Mar 14, 2011
52
Sorry if I overlooked this, but where does it state that the hero wraith/banshee can join a non-ethereal unit? I can't see this in my white dwarf, so I guess the ethereal rule still denies this?

Greetz, B.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
God of War said:
Sorry if I overlooked this, but where does it state that the hero wraith/banshee can join a non-ethereal unit? I can't see this in my white dwarf, so I guess the ethereal rule still denies this?

Greetz, B.

The opposite is true... where does it specify that an Ethereal character CANNOT join a non-ethereal unit?

Pg 68 of the BRB tells us that non-ethereal characters can not join ethereal units. However, I see no restriction on doing so the other way.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
I don't see any ambiguity, all of the rules are absolutely clear if you read things properly. Non-ethereal heroes cannot join ethereal units. Ethereal heroes can join any unit a normal hero can, in addition to being able to join ethereal units.
Hero wraiths and banshees do not get access to magic items.
The hero wraith/banshee are seperate entries to the non hero versions, so the non hero versions obviously do not get the abilities/stats of the hero versions, regardless of having the same name. Its like Storm of Magic, warriors of chaos dragon ogres get will of chaos, storm of magic dragon ogres do not. The fact that they share the same name does not mean they share the same abilities/rules.
Alot of the FAQ questions are a result of people not reading things right.
 

Zephyr

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Mar 3, 2008
2,522
Rotterdam
It's not even so much reading things right but having to read through a wall of inane jabbering with rules crammed in between what's important. They should have re-phrased some of the things said on other pages on the profiles pages for the units.

I think it was perfectly clear as I read through it all. That said, I'm really happy with this bone that was thrown at us(pun intended). I already played a game with a Banshee in my skelly unit and it definitely adds some punch. I'd love to use the Wraith but as I almost play exclusively against low Ld horde armies the Wraith just wouldn't do enough damage for its worth in points.
 

Swissdictator

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 16, 2008
1,546
Wisconsin
I'm liking this overall. I like the extra variety, as it really expands the use of these options. You can put a hero wraith in a unit, vanhel's them up so even Dwarf runic warmachines have a hard time sniping him (though it is kind of hard for them as is) and fling it at them.

You could use them to add punch to a core unit, have one or two roaming your back field to deal with mobile units, etc. Banshee will probably only be seen as a character now, but that's fine. I'd rather keep my wraith units combat orientated anyways! I love the concept of a banshee being on her own, it just makes more sense to me thematically to be honest. So I like the banshee hero choice *a lot*. I am much more likely to field one too.

Overall I am VERY happy with this, and it gives me reason to keep an eye on White Dwarf too. If they're willing to do small updates like this, even if it doesn't give us our "wish list" (which would have included cheaper skeletons in my wish list as well)... their willingness to update is a good sign.
 

Corpse Gatherer

Skeleton
Dec 8, 2010
61
Manchester
Had a test game against Skaven using one of each. The Wraith was a bit meh but did add punch to the Skeletons. The Banshee on the other hand was amazing and ripped through both a big unit of Clanrats and a unit of Plague Monks and Censer Bearers. Well worth the points.
 

Uncle Fester

Zombie
Dec 21, 2010
31
Swissdictator said:
Overall I am VERY happy with this, and it gives me reason to keep an eye on White Dwarf too. If they're willing to do small updates like this, even if it doesn't give us our "wish list" (which would have included cheaper skeletons in my wish list as well)... their willingness to update is a good sign.

I have to agree with Swissdictator. I like this if for no other reason then it allows us to create different armies than the standard Mk.1 Vampire list (Vamp Lord; Vamp Hero; Necro; 2 x Ghouls; Skele bunker Grave Guard; additional Specials & Rares for flavor)

Fester
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Oct 11, 2007
5,319
Winnipeg, MB
@Corpse Gatherer: How did the Banshee rip through said units...? Even slaves usually have LD10. You'd need to roll a 9 to do a single wound usually. I would think the Banshee would be good against specialty units (large infantry, monsters, Chaos Warriors).
 

Vortaine

Ghoul
May 27, 2011
125
Southern CA
The White Dwarf says that the intent was for this update to be official, but in regards to wraiths and banshees, it does offer the caveat that we are free to mix and match these new rules. That is, it seems to suggest that we can mix and match the two (Rare and Hero) or use them per WD (Hero) or per our Army Book (Rare).

Upon looking at the wraith, I was less than impressed initially, and to a certain extent the banshee as well. I love the banshee and her rules, but I feel that our Rare and Hero choices are so competitive that its hard to make room for anything that isn't a vampire (Blood Knights, Black Coach, Vargulf, Thralls) or a Wight King.

The nice thing is that now they can join units, and unless I am mistaken, the Banshee can use her wail as a Stand and Shoot Reaction, which might give some units a bit of pause (or hopefully damage em just a bit as they charge), so I actually intend to have at least one running around somewhere.

The wraiths I was less than impressed with, but I figured two things. One, both of these units cause Terror, which is nothing to scoff at though can be entirely situational. The next, is that they are ethereal. Someone runs up and issues a challenge and they better have magical attacks or you are going to have quite the fun challenge.

Its an interesting choice, and what I might end up doing, pending on how my shop takes to these new rules, is keep them as rare but use them as characters, or if I am feeling risky take em as heroes. I still feel that if your lord is a Combat monster, these won't see much use since you typically need your hero choices to fill in the blanks for your lack of a level 4 (or if he is a 4, you need them to play it safer since my Combat Lords like to 'splode on 3 dice :/).
 

Uncle Fester

Zombie
Dec 21, 2010
31
Vortaine said:
Upon looking at the wraith, I was less than impressed initially, and to a certain extent the banshee as well. I love the banshee and her rules, but I feel that our Rare and Hero choices are so competitive that its hard to make room for anything that isn't a vampire (Blood Knights, Black Coach, Vargulf, Thralls) or a Wight King.

I like running Wraiths with an Ethereal Vamp. Prior to this I had to take a Banshee as a unit champ (with reduced combat effectiveness). Now I can have a Wraith Hero leading my Wraith unit. My combat effectiveness stays up and I have someone to take a challenge that isn't my Vamp.

Of course this is still "theory-hammer" at present, but I like how the numbers work so far...

Fester
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
On a side note, I was reasonably happy with the WD in general - it didn't seem as much of a sales catalogue as normal.

If they keep on doing this, having decent articles and rules updates / additions I may even consider subscribing to it.
 

Luvadin

Ghoul
Aug 22, 2009
104
The rules section was OK, but the truth is that the terror my heart felt did not come from the Terrogheist but from the VC lists they use in the battle report and how does the player command the army.

Don't you feel that those lists are pure rubbish? I understand that they want to use a little variety of miniatures for sales reasons, but even following this premise you could do much better things. I am definitely not the ultimate VC player, but seeing the two lists they use and reading the battle report... It really drove me mad. Even on purpose you couldn't do a worse list. 15 zombies alone? 30 zombies in horde formation? That unnecessary amount of monsters? Seriously, I don't understand :slapface:
 

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