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Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
They use fluffy/ casual lists instead of using the power gamer lists, to try and show the abiltiies of the various units. They arent rubbish, they just arent tourny lists that every seems to like using.
 

Von Calyptra

Black Knight
Mar 3, 2011
378
Boston, MA
I think that fluffy/casual lists make sense. They just follow a different internal logic than tournament lists. Components of the army are chosen either based on what fits the theme or on what seems fun.
I didn't feel like the armies in the White Dwarf made sense in that way. If I had to guess at a theme for the army in the battle report, it would be not knowing how the rules work.
 

Count Darvaleth

I <3 marmite
True Blood
Apr 26, 2010
3,407
SirKoozzi said:
So can sombody scan the pages and post it?:happy:

And get themself a nice fat warning/a banning, and then get it removed anyway...

I think the best solution would simply be to buy the WD. :smash:
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Just buy it, its only 12 dollars and it has a set of VC rules, half a sisters codex, a paintig guide (for the black dragon mini, which includes stuff on painting black, grays, purples and metallic gold), some rules for the garden of morr (a mysterious terrain chart for it to determine its effects in game), one of those painted up bits pictures (the one where you see all the components of a kit) for the terrorgeist, which could be useful for planning out what you do with the kit/conversions etc.
So it isnt actually a bad white dwarf issue, alot more useful/interesting content than usual.
The only real downside it has is one of those irritating jervis mantra articles (If I hear the word "murdering your darlings" one more time, I am going to show him the real meaning of murdering darlings.)
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
SirKoozzi said:
So can sombody scan the pages and post it?:happy:

[mod]No, as this is against the forum rules.[/mod]

SirKoozzi said:
I know but we dont have GW store in poland...

There's got to be an independent retailer that carries WD. I don't have a subscription, nor a proper GW store within an hour drive... I still managed to purchase my copy.
 

Swissdictator

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 16, 2008
1,546
Wisconsin
I strongly suspect that, eventually, GW will host PDFs on their own site for the rules when this issue is done. They've done it before for various rules introduced, the short term WoC list being one example IIRC. So keep an eye there and hopefully they'll be available, but I'd still try and pick up a WD to be sure.
 

Krysdagger

Zombie
May 7, 2010
43
Disciple of Nagash said:
If only it could be cleared up whether they have access to magic weapons?

I think I may be missing something here but for every other character entry in WFB is clearly states how many points of magic items they have access to (or runic points for dwarves or sprites for WE). It seems to me pretty clear that they can't use magic items, or the entery would say how many points they can use. Add to that the fact that etherial Vamps can't take items and it seems to be a no for items for the wraiths ...

Krys
 

Grish

Liche
True Blood
Oct 11, 2007
5,319
Winnipeg, MB
I would assume the same. Put the Flayed Hauberk on them and you have one tough opponent for a cheapish price.
 

God of War

Skeleton
Mar 14, 2011
52
I think the option for wraith characters puts the army a level higher and adds a lot of extra manoeuvrability and tactics in the army.

I play with a lot of blocks and find that I don't have anything to hunt small troops and redirectors. I have a varghulf and a unit of cairn wraiths, but at around 200 points each I find them too expansive to use them for that.

A wraith can pin any small support troop and eventually win. They can even hold a hydra and with their chill grasp wither a steam tank or even destroy it if you engage it in turn 2. With vanhel's the opponent has to be very careful with these troops.

If they can indeed march, you have excellent war machine hunters. Which can be kept safe in units!

Units can protect them, but they can protect units too, y blocking the opponents' routes or lure them into charges they don't want to.

Not each army has access to a lot of magical attacks, so if you have 5 of them, they can really create havoc, alone or by multi-charging.

A question: do they cause terror?
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 26, 2007
2,369
Very promising rules.

5 hero Wraiths in the front line of Skellies - cast Vanhels on them and they strike first with reroll with 5 S5 attack that autowounds and allow no armour saves, and can't be hurt back (if you played your cards right) and are backed up by static CR. The narrow unit width and Lord of the Dead help you to break enemy Steadfast. This unit will be awesome against some armies, and they are easily allocated to the unit you need them in, with their 12" march.

And I like the models although they seem brittle.
 

Swissdictator

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 16, 2008
1,546
Wisconsin
N.I.B said:
Very promising rules.

5 hero Wraiths in the front line of Skellies - cast Vanhels on them and they strike first with reroll with 5 S5 attack that autowounds and allow no armour saves, and can't be hurt back (if you played your cards right) and are backed up by static CR. The narrow unit width and Lord of the Dead help you to break enemy Steadfast. This unit will be awesome against some armies, and they are easily allocated to the unit you need them in, with their 12" march.

And I like the models although they seem brittle.

I seem to recall command *must* be in the front rank unit, displacing characters to the second rank. So you couldn't have any command at all. With the low unit count we can have, especially those with standards, we'd likely at least want a standard... so it would still allow some attacks.
 

Dhinanta

Zombie
Jul 8, 2010
3
This is from the Friday What's New article about Vampire Counts. Looks like a hero Cairn Wraith to me!

alh5.googleusercontent.com__TpFlh61rtho_TjyZ9n4qy1I_AAAAAAAAAkE_O7esBCazvmQ_CairnWraith.png
 

Lynks

Lord of RAW
True Blood
Dec 29, 2010
2,215
Sydney
Is anyone else considering the possibilities of the 'wraithcannon' to replace the 'vampirecannon'? Given their movement, ethereal and perhaps a little help from vanhels, i think it's quite possible to use them to snipe out the general or BSB in much the same way the flying vampire builds do, obviously they arent as mobile but they can pack on the damage and they are a lot cheaper (two for the minimum cost of the vampire with wings and no gear of any sort) and im sure we all know how effective taking out the general or BSB early on can be.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
The lack of magic items will handicap them somewhat, but I can see that working well enough, at least against the weaker generals/bsbs (empire and the like)
 

Swissdictator

Vampire Count
True Blood
Apr 16, 2008
1,546
Wisconsin
Lynks: With most generals and bsbs have a 5+/4+ ward save, ignoring even their armor... they may hold up fine. Plus if anyone will have a magical attack it will be the general. The soft res will make this a very risky tactic. It will work better on the bsb with less wounds to inflict before they die, but the wraith may not last long enough to do the job. Though I suppose even a single wound on the BSB could help.

So while it does have potential, I'm thinking it might take two wraiths for it to to be effective at character hunting.

Now, using them as small mobile hunter killers for small units? I see that being very effective. Two-three wraiths (instead of a unit of them) can deal with more threats, over a larger area. Most mobile units also don't have the magical attacks either. Against tougher scouts (rangers) they can tag team.
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Wraith's as character hunting generally a bad. They are weak against magical attacks, so in my mind putting them up against the few models that stand a good chance of having said attacks is a bad idea. Now on the other hand using the to hold up those annoying skirmishers, fast cav or flyers, all which generally lack magical attacks, sounds good.
 

God of War

Skeleton
Mar 14, 2011
52
In fact, I think from now on I'll always take 4 or 5 wraiths instead of the unit. Tactically it's just more versatile. And if you want to hit hard you can always combine-charge them. Of course, they're 10 pts more expensive per model...
 

N.I.B

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 26, 2007
2,369
Swissdictator said:
N.I.B said:
Very promising rules.

5 hero Wraiths in the front line of Skellies - cast Vanhels on them and they strike first with reroll with 5 S5 attack that autowounds and allow no armour saves, and can't be hurt back (if you played your cards right) and are backed up by static CR. The narrow unit width and Lord of the Dead help you to break enemy Steadfast. This unit will be awesome against some armies, and they are easily allocated to the unit you need them in, with their 12" march.

And I like the models although they seem brittle.

I seem to recall command *must* be in the front rank unit, displacing characters to the second rank. So you couldn't have any command at all. With the low unit count we can have, especially those with standards, we'd likely at least want a standard... so it would still allow some attacks.

Make Way, BRB pg 100.
 

Sanai

Stylish Deviant
True Blood
Oct 30, 2009
5,193
Behind Darvy
Characters must remain in the front rank at all times, except when in close combat, but this exception only applies to "make way" where the character can swap with another mini in the regiment (but only one that is in base contact with the enemy, and only if the character isnt in base to base with the enemy)
Its basically to move the character to the part of the regiment that is fighting if it gets charged in the rear or side.
 

Bishop

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Feb 5, 2009
2,683
Toronto, Ontario
Pretty sure that the cmd models have to stay in the front rank. (ref: pg 97 BRB - Characters joining units)

Make way would allow the extra Wraiths to come forward and fight, displacing cmd models to do so. Make way can swap out cmd models (ref pg 100 BRB).

So you could do this...
Key:
W =Wraith
s=skeleton
B=Standard
C=Champion
M=Musician

Code:
Normal layout

WCBMW
WsWsW
sssss
sssss
sssss
sssss

Code:
Make Way layout

WWWWW
CsBsM
sssss
sssss
sssss
sssss


Disciple of Nagash said:
Now on the other hand using the to hold up those annoying skirmishers, fast cav or flyers, all which generally lack magical attacks, sounds good.

They also lack static combat res from ranks and usually stds.
 

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