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Who's your favorite Mortarch?


  • Total voters
    39

Belladamma Voltaire

Vyrkos Primogen
True Blood
Aug 15, 2007
2,829
Manchester, UK
I was all for being a Queen Neferata stan but after reading the introduction of Lady Olynder in the "Wrath of the Everchosen" book where she leads the vanguard through the Endgate counter attacking the Chaos Horde was one of the best entrances in to a battle I've ever read in any warhammer publication and I instantly fell in love with her at that point. The idea of her being the absolute embodiment of the grief and the sorrow of the realms. I highly recommend it if you have not read it. She has a similar entrance in Broken Realms Be'lakor and it is a thing of beauty. I rally liked her characterisation in that though.
 

El Syf

Vargheist
Dec 4, 2011
643
Eastbourne
Had to change to Katakros, sorry Arkhan. And yes mostly just because of his hilariously large Codpiece, also managing to actually get stuff done is rather refreshing.
 
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Gederas

Ghoul
Jun 15, 2021
198
Rhode Island
Had to change to Katakros, sorry Arkhan. And yes mostly just because of his hilariously large Codpiece, also managing to actually get stuff done is rather refreshing.
Katakros' codpiece is utterly hilarious because you just KNOW that was a specific request by Katakros himself, because I doubt Nagash would be like "Yes, the Mortarch of my Undead Super Soldier-Golems needs a codpiece and bulge larger than the heads of all mortals!" 😂
 
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Kassill

Grave Guard
Sep 28, 2011
221
So I voted for the Queen a while back, and I still hold true to that....but If I had to pick sole-ly for the table top, Manny looks pretty fun with the new book. Even if he is one of my least favorite Von Carsteins 🤣

#shouldhavebeenVlad
 

Oppenheimer

Varghulf
May 26, 2013
708
@Kassill Totally agree! Can't forgive that guy for ending the old world. Also he's a bit too much of a brute for my tastes. Vlad was always smarter and was even honourable.
 
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The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,953
Copenhagen
Mannfred a brute? I would hardly call him that. He was the most clever of the Carsteins and yes he might be ruthless but he is not prone to brute force. After all he is/was the most adept at the arcane arts among the vampires - maybe even on par with Zacharias. 🙂
 

Unas the slayer

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 1, 2017
1,805
Northern Italy
@Unas the slayer - Vampires as VC are no more? The Soublight Gravelords Battletome begs to differ 😁

Luckily, for once, GW turned back and forged once again what was the real core of VC.

Despite the horrible way Death was treated in the lore to please Teclis and the new OP elven faction, i like the whole mortarch things and the division between undead subfactions, with ghosts being a thing by themselves and so on.
 

Oppenheimer

Varghulf
May 26, 2013
708
Mannfred a brute? I would hardly call him that. He was the most clever of the Carsteins and yes he might be ruthless but he is not prone to brute force. After all he is/was the most adept at the arcane arts among the vampires - maybe even on par with Zacharias. 🙂
He is the best necromancer besides Arkhan for sure. I mean brute not in the sense that he doesn't use magic, I mean literally too brutal in his implementation. In the latest rules it says for example "Those vampires who serve the Mortarch of Night are amoungst the cruellest and most callous of their breed; they consider themselves the true lords of the night, far above the mortal chattel they oppress and feed upon with such cold relish." That's what I mean by "brute", brutal, cruel, callous. I prefer Neferata's scheming. But, true that the other vampires are certainly more savage, such as the bestial vampires I guess like the Strigoi/Flesh Eater Courts, Avengorii or even probably the Vyrkos now.
 
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The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,953
Copenhagen
He is the best necromancer besides Arkhan for sure. I mean brute not in the sense that he doesn't use magic, I mean literally too brutal in his implementation. In the latest rules it says for example "Those vampires who serve the Mortarch of Night are amoungst the cruellest and most callous of their breed; they consider themselves the true lords of the night, far above the mortal chattel they oppress and feed upon with such cold relish." That's what I mean by "brute", brutal, cruel, callous. I prefer Neferata's scheming. But, true that the other vampires are certainly more savage, such as the bestial vampires I guess like the Strigoi/Flesh Eater Courts, Avengorii or even probably the Vyrkos now.
Ahh then we are in complete agreement!
 

Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
Katakros' codpiece is utterly hilarious because you just KNOW that was a specific request by Katakros himself, because I doubt Nagash would be like "Yes, the Mortarch of my Undead Super Soldier-Golems needs a codpiece and bulge larger than the heads of all mortals!" 😂
To be fair, I'd probably do the same 😏 🤣 just because I'm dead doesn't mean I'm not packing right?

So I voted for the Queen a while back, and I still hold true to that....but If I had to pick sole-ly for the table top, Manny looks pretty fun with the new book. Even if he is one of my least favorite Von Carsteins 🤣

#shouldhavebeenVlad

So should have been Vlad. We have so many ruthless characters, it would have been good to have one who was conflicted, who did as his master ordered but still tried to protect the mortals in his lands. It would have been a great aspect of Shyish and that faction could have potentially had access to a mortal core unit

Mannfred a brute? I would hardly call him that. He was the most clever of the Carsteins and yes he might be ruthless but he is not prone to brute force. After all he is/was the most adept at the arcane arts among the vampires - maybe even on par with Zacharias. 🙂

Mannfred was supposedly taught Necromancy by Melkhior upon request by Vlad, which would account for his knowledge. Found out more secrets like these in my soon-to-be-published complete WHFB Death timeline!
 

Gederas

Ghoul
Jun 15, 2021
198
Rhode Island
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I feel it shouldn't have been Vlad. He (and Isabela) was one where he felt like he had a real resolution to the story for him.
 
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Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,593
I also agree with Gederas - about Vlad specifically, not Isabella. Isabella never had much agency or character of her own, I think there definitely could have been room to explore her as a character in her own right after Vlad's second death.

That said, while many death characters are ruthless, Mannfred really does bring some goofy fun to the table in being an ourtright heel. All the AoS antagonists are suitably threatening and evil, but no other character touches Mannfred when it comes to being properly dastardly. People criticize Nagash, for instance, for being an old Saturday morning cartoon villain, but he's really not. Mannfred is though, and it's wonderful. Mannfred is warhammer Starscream and the game and setting are much more enjoyable and far less stuffy for having him around.

I agree that there's room for a more tragically conflicted undead hero. That's a good archetype, and one largely missing in AoS's death line up. But I absolutely would not willingly sacrifice Mannfred to pick up such a character.
 
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The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,953
Copenhagen
Trailing a bit off the mortarch question, I do feel like the Rat Prince Kritza has a wonderfully tragic story and I could see that develop into something more.
 
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Disciple of Nagash

Oldblood
Staff member
Feb 12, 2008
27,732
*waves the solitary Vlad flag* 🦇🤣🤣

It might be nostalgia, Vlad was my first undead character and took on regiments by himself!

I understand then comments though, he did have a full and fulfilling arc to an extent although I do very much agree with @Sception about Isabelle, she was very much just in the background and it would be quite interesting if they did something with her. I could see Nagash perhaps bringing her back, stringing her along with the potential promise of bringing Vlad back combined her guilt over what she did in the End Times. She could fulfil that tragic character and would not doubt operate in a similar way to Vlad, blending her lands with undead and the living.

I think Nagash and Mannfred are very much Saturday morning villains. Constantly scheming, little to know loyalty and ridiculously over the top plans that manage to always come undone, and they keep on coming back! Although I don't think anyone will top Mannys End Times temper tantrum 🤣


Trailing a bit off the mortarch question, I do feel like the Rat Prince Kritza has a wonderfully tragic story and I could see that develop into something more.
Still catching up on my lore so don't know about the Rat Prince yet. Whats the best source?
 

The Sun King

Moderator
Staff member
True Blood
Aug 22, 2012
4,953
Copenhagen
Well they did do something very cool with Isabella's storyline: she was resurrected by Nurgle to taunt her husband. Possesed by a demon she lead Nurgle's army into battle and beat up Mannfred and Vlad. The End Times really had some nice plot twists.
 
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Oppenheimer

Varghulf
May 26, 2013
708
@The Sun King Agree with Isabella. The Nurgle thing was interesting and I really liked the "undead lady's tea" of Neferata, Khalida and Isabella sitting together waiting for the world to end. I kind of wish there were some people in death that were friends (or lovers) and weren't secretly scheming.
 

Sception

Master Necromancer
True Blood
Sep 23, 2009
2,593
Well they did do something very cool with Isabella's storyline: she was resurrected by Nurgle to taunt her husband. Possesed by a demon she lead Nurgle's army into battle and beat up Mannfred and Vlad. The End Times really had some nice plot twists.

This wasn't Isabella doing anything. She was controlled by Vlad, then she was controlled by a nurgle demon to make vlad feel bad, then vlad sacrificed himself to save her only for her to spend the rest of the time between that and the end of the world unconscious. At no point did Isabella ever actually do anything ov her own volition, at no point did we get to see what she actually thought or felt or who she was as a character. That's not a major criticism or anything, a lot of stuff was going on and their corner of the narrative was focused on the well known and well liked Vlad, and in particular on giving his story a more satisfying ending than 'betrayed by warhammer starscream before getting pushed onto some spikes by some empire guy. That's all fair and good, and I think the writers of the end times narrative really succeeded in their goals with that particular plot thread.

That's also why I'm happy to leave Vlad's story as it is. They did a good job with it. There is absolutely nothing for Vlad to be doing in the AoS setting that would justify undoing that very satisfying conclusion. I'd love to see him back, but specifically in the upcoming Warhammer Old World game. The starting setting of that game, as I understand it, will be a couple centuries before the Vampire Wars, but if it's successful there's no reason why it couldn't progress over time and maybe in an edition or two make the Vampire Wars their core narrative, covering them in more mechanical detail than Oldhammer ever did. Could you imagine an in depth, forgeworld horus heresy style campaign book or set of campaign books laying out the individual battles of Vlad's campaign in high detail? Would be amazing.

Back to Isabella, though, I think where Vlad's story left off would have been an ideal spot to let Isabella's own story start. You have Nurgle breaking Vlad's hold on her and Vlad breaking Nurgle's hold on her, together leaving her theoretically free to think for herself for the first time basically ever. You have the nurgle daemon's possession dredging up and forcing her to confront just how controlling Vlad was, just how little her own feelings for him could be trusted, how much of it was just Vlad projecting his own vanity back at himself through her as a proxy. But then you have Vlad sacrificing himself to save her, showing that at least on some level he did care about her, further complicating her emotions. So what is she going to do now, with no direct masters? The last time she was on her own she killed herself to be with Vlad in death, but even if she hadn't been forced to face how manipulated her feelings for Vlad were, after Vlad killing himself to save her, killing herself again would be throwing his sacrifice away. That's a great launching point for a self realization narrative that could be taken in any number of directions. You could have her go on a revenge fueled rampage against Mannfred both for betraying vlad and for disrespecting her so badly. You could have her take up vlad's mantle and memory as a new mortarch of shadow. You could have her reject vampires, the undead, and nagash altogether, and sign up with sigmar instead. You could have her be rivals with, or, better, friends and co-conspirators with Neferata. and the direction the writers seem to have chosen for her is 'none at all', which really does imply that they never saw any point or potential to her character besides being a source of man-angst for Vlad, and imo that's kind of a waste.
 

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